Aviation MegaThread!!!!

[Heyload]

I shut the troop door behind alot of airborne troops. Crazy, jumping out of a perfectly good airplane...

I often wondered why they didn't just go ram-air chutes. As one jumpmaster explained it, going into a DZ it was better to use round chutes for static line jumps and mass delivery, as the idea was to get down on the ground quickly and round chutes worked pretty good for that purpose.
He claimed it was better to not give the troops an option to float around and be a target. Of course, this was after we pulled the d-bags and static lines back in and shut the door, so since he wasn't jumping at the time his opinion could have been biased.

I was always impressed by the special operators and the way they could handle those square rigs, though. Those guys could land on a dime and give you back a nickle change...

[Daniii]

I called "Green Light" on probably 1000 grunts back when I was a C-130 Nav. They only had a couple seconds in the air from 1000 feet. Doubt it there would be much chance to do much adjustment.

I recall one incident, back in '69, when we were dropping troops at Ft Bragg, and I was third in a formation of a dozen C-130's, 10 seconds behind the flight leader. My calculations indicated I should be calling "red Light" just as the first troops were leaving the lead aircraft. Looking up at the lead aircraft, I saw that I was correct.

However, as I was counting down from 10 in my head, about the time I got to about 3 the Flight engineer announced "those guys are going into the trees!"

I restarted the count in my head at 10! My guys cleared the trees just fine. The lead Nav went home.

Apparently there was an unnoticed wind shear near the ground.

[slideways]

Originally Posted by mr_magicfingers

You jumping at Sebastian?

After my first jump course in the UK I got bored waiting for good weather and hopped on a plane to there. First thing next morning the dz PA fires up some tunes and a guy knocks on the car door (hadn't organised a room at the time) and asks me if I fancy a jump before breakfast.

I'd only ever jumped from 10k', jumping from 13.5 felt like a lot higher :)

Just sold my canopy yesterday, last of my gear. I miss it, I just can't afford it right now. Was a hell of a lot of fun while I could.

Yes, the nice thing about Florida is lots of DZ's and year round good weather.

[wannaklr]

Any good jump schools on the east coast of Iowa?

Any ones to avoid?

Always wanted to skydive at least once.

[zozie]

Look what I saw yesterday. I've spotted them from the road as I was riding my new and shiny F800R.



































HAHA I think I had the same tires on the front of my virago as the DR1:)

Obviously they are replicas.... Too bad they couldn't find a rotating engine for the DR1.

[Heyload]

Originally Posted by Daniii

I called "Green Light" on probably 1000 grunts back when I was a C-130 Nav. They only had a couple seconds in the air from 1000 feet. Doubt it there would be much chance to do much adjustment.

I recall one incident, back in '69, when we were dropping troops at Ft Bragg, and I was third in a formation of a dozen C-130's, 10 seconds behind the flight leader. My calculations indicated I should be calling "red Light" just as the first troops were leaving the lead aircraft. Looking up at the lead aircraft, I saw that I was correct.

However, as I was counting down from 10 in my head, about the time I got to about 3 the Flight engineer announced "those guys are going into the trees!"

I restarted the count in my head at 10! My guys cleared the trees just fine. The lead Nav went home.

Apparently there was an unnoticed wind shear near the ground.

I like to point out the stopwatch holder on the nav panel. Amazing how few people know what it is.

[slideways]

Originally Posted by MN_Smurf

Don't forget that those 100 guys all have full combat gear loads as well......

Combat load is 35 lbs, that is next to nothing for a ram air chute, plus ram air chutes come in different sizes and configurations. Just compute the jumpers weight plus his combat load to the canopy size and this will give you the wing loading. I would put them all under PD Spectre canopies. Lots of performance, soft openings and the 7 cell design is not upset by turbulence. Another bonus is that the soldier can pack it in 10 minutes and be ready to jump again, no rigger necessary.

In the 3 weeks the Army now spends on their antiquated jump school I could have trainees flying circles around your basic Army jumper.

Ground school would be one day, not one week. There would be no tower week, instead I would have the trainees in the wind tunnel working on flying their bodies. Ft Bragg has a huge wind tunnel where the Golden Knights train. Then a week of jumping and canopy control.
They would be good to go and never even see a static line.

And we haven't even discussed tandem capabilities. Two soldiers under one canopy.

[Flying-D]

I did a tandem from 14,500 from a King-Air, my only jump. 60 seconds of free fall is a lifetime!

[chazbird]

That King air 90 above; is that a usual jumper exit attitude or are they done with jumpers and starting the spiral descent? If so, do they do that so close to jumpers?...I know the free fall will out accelerate the King Air going down hill, but with jumpers out with chutes open the King Air will descend much faster...right?

And what is the usual attitude of a jump plane, a few degrees nose up in a slight climb? If so, is that to make sure the plane is climbing and the jumpers will go below the tail?

[DakarNick]

Originally Posted by slideways

\And we haven't even discussed tandem capabilities. Two soldiers under one canopy.

I think that's Tom Cruise and Anderson Cooper training for 'Mission Impossible Eleventeen'.

[Flying-D]

Originally Posted by chazbird

That King air 90 above; is that a usual jumper exit attitude or are they done with jumpers and starting the spiral descent? If so, do they do that so close to jumpers?...I know the free fall will out accelerate the King Air going down hill, but with jumpers out with chutes open the King Air will descend much faster...right?

And what is the usual attitude of a jump plane, a few degrees nose up in a slight climb? If so, is that to make sure the plane is climbing and the jumpers will go below the tail?

I was also working as an air traffic controller at the boogie, so I can sort-of answer. He definitely went downhill fast after all jumpers were out. As I understand to be usual, jumpers exited at several altitudes on some jumps, but on mine, we all got out at 14,500. How fast did he descend? Time is money when more jumpers are waiting, and he beat us to the ground, but we opened at about 4500 in order to get a scenic look around, I guess. I have a VHS tape of it somewhere...I think.

[slideways]

Originally Posted by chazbird

That King air 90 above; is that a usual jumper exit attitude or are they done with jumpers and starting the spiral descent? If so, do they do that so close to jumpers?...I know the free fall will out accelerate the King Air going down hill, but with jumpers out with chutes open the King Air will descend much faster...right?

And what is the usual attitude of a jump plane, a few degrees nose up in a slight climb? If so, is that to make sure the plane is climbing and the jumpers will go below the tail?

That King Air belongs to a friend of mine, it is hotted up with special engines and props and regularly will beat the jumpers to the ground. With the right pilot at the controls. The team I was on years ago used to practice out of that plane and it was cool to watch him pass us in freefall.

Normally they level out and to get the tail up and out the jumpers go. Also on larger jump planes there is a lot of CG shift aft which the pilot needs to be aware of. We always inform the pilot of how many people we are moving to the back of the plane and chunking out the door so he can maintain a safe airspeed on jump run.

Here is a video 14000AGL to wheels down 3 mins and change.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRLhKhbp8aQ

A formation of Otters notice all the jumpers outside, they all try to leave at once.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRLhKhbp8aQ

[chazbird]

I can understand not wasting a minute in jump planes climbs and descents and a normal descent in a King air is 2500-4000 fpm. I recall some emergency descent regimes where I think we were at 12,000-13,000 fpm, maybe more, I dunno, I wasn't really keeping tabs on the way down, so that must be doable, somehow, in a King Air. We were not allowed a spiral descent, except to start the descent (45 degree off airway) I suppose for fear of spiral loss of control (of course we were in clouds or simulated clouds). Terminal velocity for a jumper is, what 125 mph?, and tucked around 200 mph?, yielding 11,000 fpm and 17,600 fpm, respectively. Can a turbine jump plane, like the King Air (a Otter is too dirty and has a slower Vmo) beat you to the altitude where you deploy the parachute, or is it beat you to the ground because you'll open your chutes at 4000" agl? Are there restricted category jump planes that can go past (gulp) Vmo? Or does "the right pilot" just go past that in normal jump practice.

[slideways]

Originally Posted by chazbird

I can understand not wasting a minute in jump planes climbs and descents and a normal descent in a King air is 2500-4000 fpm. I recall some emergency descent regimes where I think we were at 12,000-13,000 fpm, maybe more, I dunno, I wasn't really keeping tabs on the way down, so that must be doable, somehow, in a King Air. We were not allowed a spiral descent, except to start the descent (45 degree off airway) I suppose for fear of spiral loss of control (of course we were in clouds or simulated clouds). Terminal velocity for a jumper is, what 125 mph?, and tucked around 200 mph?, yielding 11,000 fpm and 17,600 fpm, respectively. Can a turbine jump plane, like the King Air (a Otter is too dirty and has a slower Vmo) beat you to the altitude where you deploy the parachute, or is it beat you to the ground because you'll open your chutes at 4000" agl? Are there restricted category jump planes that can go past (gulp) Vmo? Or does "the right pilot" just go past that in normal jump practice.

As far as I know the The King Air 200 has a top speed of 299 miles an hour, and a maximum diving speed of 300 knots, or 345 m.p.h. The 90 series is just a lighter version of the 200 . The 90 has a Vne of 208 and a Va of 169 so other than the extreme head down guys you can pass a lot of skydivers in freefall.

I have seen some bent ailerons on an Otter that tried one of those King Air type dives. Some pilots will push a plane to Vne but eventually something is going to break Vne on an otter is 198 KIAS.

[chazbird]

King Air Vmo for a 200 = 260, for a 90 = 226, both in KTS. For a turbine they use Vmo (max operating) instead of Vne. But that's splitting hairs - I'm just sorta kinda interested if there are dive outfits that go beyond Vmo, that 300 you quote for a King Air 200 would do it. Maybe things have been cleaned up but there have been, once upon a time, some reputations in the business that were reported to be less than stellar - although I'm not in the bizz, so what do I know? I do know once a plane is consigned to being a jump plane it is well used and thereafter its resale value is virtually nil, except to another dive out fit. (massive cycles for one). So, I was wondering with that sort of background what the mentality may be as far as airspeed excursions.

When a King or Otter lands do they keep one or both engines running as they load the jumpers? I could see a definite operational/cycle reduction value in that, as well as a definite risk.