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Old 08-03-2012, 08:39 PM   #3511
chazbird
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Yeah, I over nerded-out there. But the jets, in particular turbo-fan vs turbo jets, have gotten a lot better in fuel consumption but it is still a thirsty proposition all 'round. I suspect the "built" Reno type unlimited piston engines would burn twice what the standard Merlin does. Last "your tax payer dollars at work" department: Military jets in afterburner typically burn 5-7 times more fuel than they do at normal maximum power.
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:08 PM   #3512
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Or, for a little progress report, a twin engine Boeing 737-700 with 150 seats will burn about 4900 Lbs per hour at 39,000 ft and be going about 450 knots. The Hawker Hunter, a single engine aircraft, with one seat, would be around 3000 lbs per hour at 40,000 ft, going about 80-100 knots faster. So things have improved somewhat.
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:16 PM   #3513
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The new geared turbofans coupled with aerodynamic improvements coming with the 737max and the A320NEO are expected to yield 12-14% improvement in fuel efficiency.
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:46 PM   #3514
chazbird
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Yep, that's huge. I knew an engineer at GE who said everyone would go ape-shit happy when a 2-3% increase in fuel efficiency was obtained. The fans (essentially a propeller) on the high by pass and ultra hig-by pass engines now provide 60-80% of the trust, vs the remainder being from the core, which is what all the old turbojets provided. I once and did 4 instrument approaches, to two nearby airports, with a hold or two, all at low altitudes, in a "pure" turbo jet powered Lear 24 and we were definitely needing to stop for fuel when we were done.
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Old 08-04-2012, 07:29 AM   #3515
Bigger Al
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chazbird View Post
Yeah, I over nerded-out there. But the jets, in particular turbo-fan vs turbo jets, have gotten a lot better in fuel consumption but it is still a thirsty proposition all 'round. I suspect the "built" Reno type unlimited piston engines would burn twice what the standard Merlin does. Last "your tax payer dollars at work" department: Military jets in afterburner typically burn 5-7 times more fuel than they do at normal maximum power.

The built racing engines can burn anywhere from 350 GPH (Merlin) to 550 GPH (R-4360).


FWIW, the last conversation I had with a P-51 owner included the phrase "$1,500 per hour to operate." That figures in maintenance, insurance, and such. Not a cheap hobby, that's for sure.


Hey Lornce; the offer still stands. You get yourself down here and we'll go to the Air Races in Reno. I gots me a spare Airhead for you to ride.
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:24 AM   #3516
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Thanks, Al. Would love to take you up on your offer some day.

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Old 08-04-2012, 08:25 AM   #3517
chazbird
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$1500 an hour? Not in my territory - lately going to the movies is what I can afford - but that isn't as bad as I'd have thought. That's in the vicinity of a Citation Jet operating cost. My 435 lb hr. quote for the P51D is unmodded engine at cruise, not combat power settings. Aren't the unlimited engines putting out well over 3000 hp? For someone who lives but 200 miles from Reno and who's never been to the races, how much does a day ticket cost? Which day would be best to check it out? Most of its a nice ride for me too.
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:48 AM   #3518
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Originally Posted by Bigger Al View Post
FWIW, the last conversation I had with a P-51 owner included the phrase "$1,500 per hour to operate." That figures in maintenance, insurance, and such.
That's about the figure I heard from a friend who has a pair of them. He bought a T-6 because it's so cheap to fly. Cheap for him, but 2 hours in the T-6 blows my entire monthly flying budget.

Same guy used to have a French trainer jet (can't remember the model) that he'd tow from the hanger to the hold short line because to taxi it that far burnt $600 in fuel.
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Old 08-04-2012, 10:51 AM   #3519
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That's about the figure I heard from a friend who has a pair of them. He bought a T-6 because it's so cheap to fly. Cheap for him, but 2 hours in the T-6 blows my entire monthly flying budget.

Same guy used to have a French trainer jet (can't remember the model) that he'd tow from the hanger to the hold short line because to taxi it that far burnt $600 in fuel.
Love my Cessna 152, $89/hr wet.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:14 AM   #3520
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Bye Bye N444RT :(

Kinda bittersweet day for me, 444RT took off with her new owners this morning out of KVNC, enroute El Salvador, via Key West - Cozumel. Will be used in an Air Taxi operation, so they say... On the market for a year, I needed to sell her but didn't wanna sell her at the same time. Been my trusty steed for 15 years. Hate that I will likely never see her again.

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Old 08-04-2012, 12:28 PM   #3521
Bigger Al
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chazbird View Post
$1500 an hour? Not in my territory - lately going to the movies is what I can afford - but that isn't as bad as I'd have thought. That's in the vicinity of a Citation Jet operating cost. My 435 lb hr. quote for the P51D is unmodded engine at cruise, not combat power settings. Aren't the unlimited engines putting out well over 3000 hp? For someone who lives but 200 miles from Reno and who's never been to the races, how much does a day ticket cost? Which day would be best to check it out? Most of its a nice ride for me too.
The fast guys are running between 3K and 4K HP. Exact figures are hard to come by.

The Air Races are September 12-16 this year, and the best day to go is Sunday. That's when the fast guys in the unlimited class pull out the stops. A general admission ticket will run you $29, and a pit pass (highly recommended) will cost $32. We usually bring lawn chairs and sit on the ramp in front of the GA grandstands.
Be aware that they won't let you bring in food, but a large, unopened bottle of water is allowed. Be prepared for every kind of weather imaginable. In the 40+ years that I've gone there's been rain, snow, sleet, hail, high winds, and perfect sunshine.

PM me if you'd like more info.

http://www.airrace.org/index.php
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:55 PM   #3522
chazbird
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Those Reno prices seem reasonable to me. Now if, I can talk someone else into going - he's once expressed an interest and now that he's retired....I wonder if Charo still plays at Harrah's?

Aztec: Not the sexy 310 look but an underrated aircraft but carries quite a load...wasn't it the aircraft the term the pop sickle airplane was invented for?
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Old 08-04-2012, 02:59 PM   #3523
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Here's some really cool ultra-green aircraft stuff that's way out on the horizon:

http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/20...ltra-Green.pdf
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:30 PM   #3524
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Here's some really cool ultra-green aircraft stuff that's way out on the horizon:

http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/20...ltra-Green.pdf
LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reaction) was mentioned in the abstract. That's getting to be an interesting scene to watch.
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:31 PM   #3525
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LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reaction) was mentioned in the abstract. That's getting to be an interesting scene to watch.
That's how I found it, actually. What a curious development.
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