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Old 08-08-2012, 12:57 PM   #3541
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Originally Posted by chazbird View Post
Thank you for the information, Sir. Interesting that the C5 has been around now a long time and will be, probably, around quite a bit longer whereas we see that formerly frontline early variant F16 sitting crazing and fading as a static display aircraft. The US can park/retire aircraft like that when 95% of the world's air forces have no aircraft that are as capable - I am not sure if that's a good or bad thing, just an observation. And while I doubt it I wonder if there any C5's out there on display like that?
There are currently no C-5's on static display. About 14 of the highest time airframes are now sitting out at Davis-Monthan. One aircraft was used to contruct a cargo-loading trainer for the basic C-5 loadmaster course, and it is at Lackland AFB, TX.

Operational plans for the C-5 are projected to extend up to 2040, unless something changes.
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Old 08-08-2012, 02:23 PM   #3542
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I've been meaning to take the tour at the Davis-Monthan Boneyard for a zillion years. What hours or cycles do the C5 airframes time out at? Or do they just store the highest time ones because they have no limited life?
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Old 08-08-2012, 02:48 PM   #3543
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I've been meaning to take the tour at the Davis-Monthan Boneyard for a zillion years. What hours or cycles do the C5 airframes time out at? Or do they just store the highest time ones because they have no limited life?
After the destructive inspection of Aircraft 69-004, one of the airframes with the highest time on it, it was determined that even after 30 years of operation, approx. 80% of the operational life is left in the fleet. The aircraft retired were either the highest time airframes or the ones that were real maintenance hogs.

No B models are currently in the boneyard, as far as I know. As far as the service life of the remaining aircraft in service, they are looking for a 50,000 hour life out of the airframes at this point.

All B-models and remaining A-models have received an avionics upgrade to the new "glass" cockpit under the AMP program, and all B-models are supposed to be upgraded with the new engines to the M-model, or Super Galaxy. I think at this point 4 or 5 M-models are currently in operation, including the one A-model that they upgraded. They are reshaping the way C-5 operations are conducted. It is now possible to deliver cargo directly from the CONUS to Afghanistan with no intermediate stops.

In the M-model upgrade, the C-5 can deliver it's maximum payload of about 261,000 lbs aprox. 5000 miles without refueling.
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Old 08-09-2012, 05:36 PM   #3544
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A quick reminder of the importance of performance planning!

Luckily everyone was OK (according to the description).

There is some blood and what not, so potentially NSFW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG5H2XwAuM8
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Old 08-09-2012, 07:25 PM   #3545
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A quick reminder of the importance of performance planning!

Luckily everyone was OK (according to the description).

There is some blood and what not, so potentially NSFW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG5H2XwAuM8
Damn!
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Old 08-09-2012, 07:53 PM   #3546
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Overloaded?

Never seemed to establish a positive climb rate...

NFE
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Old 08-09-2012, 07:57 PM   #3547
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Overloaded?

Never seemed to establish a positive climb rate...

NFE
A lot of the youtube armchair pilots suspect it was high altitude or heat.

I think all three.

I'm surprised he didn't give up when it took him 2 miles to get any altitude.
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:04 PM   #3548
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As I remember, you calculate density altitude, then load accordingly...

Yep, a lot of good landing real estate past beneath the wings before it flopped into the trees.

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Old 08-09-2012, 08:07 PM   #3549
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A quick reminder of the importance of performance planning!

Luckily everyone was OK (according to the description).

There is some blood and what not, so potentially NSFW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG5H2XwAuM8

Whoa!

Do the comments made sum up what went wrong, accurately or can those with some knowledge of such things shed some more light?
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:12 PM   #3550
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Whoa!

Do the comments made sum up what went wrong, accurately or can those with some knowledge of such things shed some more light?
They're a pretty good guess.

It's hard to know for sure without data about where they were, what temp it was, how heavy the plane was, etc.
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:16 PM   #3551
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Definitely impossible to know for sure what happened.

I would think four people in some sort of small single engine prop plane (many guessing it is even quite vintage) would be pushing the limits of performance on a normal day, let alone high density altitude, increased temperatures...Combine the terrible climb rate with what looks like a downdraft.

No matter what caused it, to put a fully loaded plane into the trees like that and have everyone basically walk away...Lottery tickets should be in their future.
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:23 PM   #3552
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Here's a primer on density altitude: http://www.nappf.com/nappf_density_altitude.htm

NFE
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:29 AM   #3553
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Almost looked more like once he realized he'd screwed up he focused more on altitude than on airspeed rather than a downdraft doing the deed, but you get all kinds of crazy winds in the mountains. Maybe he moved into an area with a tailwind and the brief loss of airspeed doomed 'em.

After that loooong takeoff roll and he got airborne then touched down again while still on the 'road', that would have been an excellent time to say 'fuck this!'.


Just watched through to the side view- really does look like he insisted on altitude and traded off too much airspeed to maintain level flight.
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:44 AM   #3554
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A bit more info:

NTSB preliminary report: http://images.bimedia.net/documents/...TSB+Report.pdf

Wiki Poop on Stinson 108/3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinson_108

Field elevation in excess of 6000 feet, temp of 80 degrees F, heavily loaded...

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Old 08-10-2012, 07:02 AM   #3555
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If it flew anything like a Pacer, it sounds to me like it wasn't a downdraft.
It sounded like it stalled, and with the nose high attitude just mushed all the way into the trees.
The Pacer, though short wing, is a 4 place plane, with a 150 hp Lycoming.
It has plenty of get up and go even with 4 people in it.
When you pull it up into a stall, it is very docile, in that it doesn't do the usual clean break, and defined nose drop, like a typical Cessna 150/152, per say
It just settles into a nose high mush, and starts to sink.
I've not flown a Stinson, so this is just an assumption, on my part...
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