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Old 08-11-2012, 12:52 PM   #3556
Smithy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_FLY_LOW View Post
If it flew anything like a Pacer, it sounds to me like it wasn't a downdraft.
It sounded like it stalled, and with the nose high attitude just mushed all the way into the trees.
The Pacer, though short wing, is a 4 place plane, with a 150 hp Lycoming.
It has plenty of get up and go even with 4 people in it.
When you pull it up into a stall, it is very docile, in that it doesn't do the usual clean break, and defined nose drop, like a typical Cessna 150/152, per say
It just settles into a nose high mush, and starts to sink.
I've not flown a Stinson, so this is just an assumption, on my part...

That was my take, he just mushed it in. Excessive angle of attack, razor-thin performance envelope.
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Old 08-11-2012, 01:13 PM   #3557
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In the video from the guy in the back seat you can see the wing covering vibrating like crazy when they fisrt started loosing altittude.
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Old 08-11-2012, 03:28 PM   #3558
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Alex Tribeck: "Four people in a 150 hp non-turbo charged light aircraft taking off in a mountainous valley with a density altitude of 9600 ft? "What's an avoidable accident?"
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:13 PM   #3559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_FLY_LOW View Post
If it flew anything like a Pacer, it sounds to me like it wasn't a downdraft.
It sounded like it stalled, and with the nose high attitude just mushed all the way into the trees.
The Pacer, though short wing, is a 4 place plane, with a 150 hp Lycoming.
It has plenty of get up and go even with 4 people in it.
When you pull it up into a stall, it is very docile, in that it doesn't do the usual clean break, and defined nose drop, like a typical Cessna 150/152, per say
It just settles into a nose high mush, and starts to sink.
I've not flown a Stinson, so this is just an assumption, on my part...
I have flown a Stinson 108 a bit, and it has even gentler stall characteristics than a Pacer. Slotted wing, etc. I think that you are correct, it just sank into the trees.
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Old 08-11-2012, 08:21 PM   #3560
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Watched some a husband and wife walk away from stupidity like that a few years ago at a local airport. There were quite a few people out there for an afternoon birthday party for on of the locals. We are all enjoying the festivities and this couple come taxiing out in their 150 in the summer time. They took off and turned out left and milked it for altitude a little too much. Mushed it into the trees instead of the lake. Trees saved their ass. I was surprised he had made it that long flying. He was hangared next to me. We have gravel and dirt floors in the hangar row with half walls. That plane sat idle for years. One morning he shows up with one of the local A&Ps. Compression is acceptable, everything else is ok I guess. He puts a new battery in it and drives off. He comes back an hour later with a couple of gas cans and dumps them in. I don't know the guy, never had seen him out there. Silly me, I think he is going to play with it on the ground, make sure it runs ok and tinker with it. A few minutes later his wife pulls up. Next thing I know he is starting it in the hangar. Full powers it out blowing dirt and rocks everywhere and off they go. They are airborne a couple mins later. It is one of those jaw-dropping moments. I think, "well, never going to see them again." and continue working on my plane. Hour later here they come taxiing back up to the hangar! Talk about lottery ticket moments.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:55 AM   #3561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfwscotty View Post
Watched some a husband and wife walk away from stupidity like that a few years ago at a local airport. There were quite a few people out there for an afternoon birthday party for on of the locals. We are all enjoying the festivities and this couple come taxiing out in their 150 in the summer time. They took off and turned out left and milked it for altitude a little too much. Mushed it into the trees instead of the lake. Trees saved their ass. I was surprised he had made it that long flying. He was hangared next to me. We have gravel and dirt floors in the hangar row with half walls. That plane sat idle for years. One morning he shows up with one of the local A&Ps. Compression is acceptable, everything else is ok I guess. He puts a new battery in it and drives off. He comes back an hour later with a couple of gas cans and dumps them in. I don't know the guy, never had seen him out there. Silly me, I think he is going to play with it on the ground, make sure it runs ok and tinker with it. A few minutes later his wife pulls up. Next thing I know he is starting it in the hangar. Full powers it out blowing dirt and rocks everywhere and off they go. They are airborne a couple mins later. It is one of those jaw-dropping moments. I think, "well, never going to see them again." and continue working on my plane. Hour later here they come taxiing back up to the hangar! Talk about lottery ticket moments.
I see it all the time. There is a physician here with a C-414, never hangared for at least the last 10 years. He'll have line service pull it around, walk up, kick the chocks out, taxi out and take off. He owned one of these (Beagle) and lost power after takeoff at a nearby airport, going into a field.

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Old 08-12-2012, 09:15 AM   #3562
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I wonder what kind of physician he is, if you know what I mean. The physicians and airplane reputation is an old cliche, although in some respects, it may be true. I thought at least they'd maintain their airplanes (analogy keep it in good health). Maybe he smokes, too.
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Old 08-12-2012, 10:12 AM   #3563
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I'm not a pilot, but that take off roll seemed to take forever! If I was in the right seat, I woulda been saying abort!, throttle off, shut her down! Lets go back to the house!
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:58 AM   #3564
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Originally Posted by Flying-D View Post
I see it all the time. There is a physician here with a C-414, never hangared for at least the last 10 years. He'll have line service pull it around, walk up, kick the chocks out, taxi out and take off. He owned one of these (Beagle) and lost power after takeoff at a nearby airport, going into a field.

Whats that bike in the background
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Old 08-12-2012, 12:07 PM   #3565
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Is this the right place to post some B17 pRon?
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:00 PM   #3566
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Is this the right place to post some B17 pRon?
b17=airplane=aviation------->aviation mega thread


sounds like the math says yes.
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:12 PM   #3567
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Is this the right place to post some B17 pRon?
Post 'em up!
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:44 PM   #3568
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Maybe someone who knows about this could fish up some of the photos and accounts of B17's being used in Boliva into the late 80's flying massively overloaded with fresh meat from the ranches in the Amazonia into La Paz. Way over the edge kind of stuff.
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:59 PM   #3569
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Maybe someone who knows about this could fish up some of the photos and accounts of B17's being used in Boliva into the late 80's flying massively overloaded with fresh meat from the ranches in the Amazonia into La Paz. Way over the edge kind of stuff.

bits and pieces I found around the internet.......

Bolivia used a total of 26 B-17s in their civil aviation fleet by several different operators. Most of them were acquired from the civilian market, but eight B-17s were transferred to Bolivia directly from USAF surplus stocks in 1956. These planes were assigned Bolivian civil registrations between CP-620 and CP-627. Hamilton Aircraft of Tucson was contracted to prepare the aircraft for delivery to the Bolivian government. An additional seven B-17 airframes were supplied to Hamilton Aircraft for scavenging for spare parts to keep the remainder flying.

Here is a list of Bolivian B-17 transports.

USAF serial Bolivian serial Disposition

41-9210 CP-753 ex N9720F. Returned to US as N8WJ for
restoration.
41-24434 CB-79-->CP-579 ex N60475. Destroyed Dec 1958.
42-3360 CB-70-->CP-570 ex N67974. Destroyed Sept 1955.
42-3470 CP-633 ex Nicaraguan AN-AMI. Sold to Colombia
as HK-580. Ultimate fate unknown.
42-6073 CP-686 ex-N7942A. Destroyed Nov 1968.
42-30921 CB-71-->CP-571 Destroyed Jan 1962.
43-37650 CB-97-->CP-597 ex-N66570 - Destroyed Sept 1955.
43-38322 CB-80-->CP-580-->CP936 Destroyed Feb 1972.
43-39307 CP-625 Transferred to Bolivia from USAF in 1956.
Destroyed Nov 1957.
44-6332 CB-88-->CP-588 Destroyed May 1963.
44-6393 CP-627-->CP-891 Returned to USA in 1981 for display
44-6556 CP-624 Transferred to Bolivia from USAF in 1956.
Destroyed Feb 1963.
44-83750 CP-623 Transferred to Bolivia from USAF in 1956.
Destroyed 1958.
44-83809 CP-626 Transferred to Bolivia from USAF in 1956.
Destroyed 1959.
44-83858 CP-742 ex-N5226V. Destroyed Feb 1965.
44-83859 CP-767 ex-Peruvian OB-R-623. Destroyed April 1967.
44-83861 CP-741 ex-N5227V. Destroyed Oct 1965.
44-83875 CP-640 ex-N5231V. Destroyed August 1967.
44-85774 CP-621 Transferred to Bolivia from USAF in 1956.
Returned to USA in 1968. Destroyed 1973.
44-85806 CP-762 ex-N117W. Scrapped Dec 1964.
44-85817 CP-622 Transferred to Bolivia from USAF in 1956.
Destroyed Feb 1957.
44-85824 CP-694 Ex-N9347R. Destroyed Dec 1963.
44-85840 CP-620 Transferred to Bolivia from USAF in 1956.
Returned to USA in 1968 as N620L. Destroyed
July 1973.











B17 hauling meat .....Don Whittington has a business at Ft. Lauderdales Executive Airport in FL. restoring WW2 aircraft and refurbishing present day planes. Several years ago he had a /the Bolivian B17 at his shop, he started to restore it in intermittant intervals, it was a mess.

when they flew CP 891 to March Field Califfornia they had to remove all the dried animal fluid under the hardboard floors - they said the plane was in totally deplorable conidtion and stripped of all equipment , she is now named "Return to Glory "

What got me was they just hauled quartered beasts straight on to the B-17 with no refrigeration or air-conditioning to preserve it (South American climate and all !!)


The villagers could hitch a lift as well, paying by the pound, and they just had to stand in the Fuselage...They showed 2 middle aged ladies in their sunday best leaning against the carcasses....and the village kids hanging onto the Elevator as it taxied out!
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Quote:
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loner, lonegunman, get it. That’s the whole point. I like the lifestyle, the image. Look a the way I dress.
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Cavemen must've designed them shortly after inventing the wheel.
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:16 PM   #3570
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My co-worker told me on Thursday that the airplane would be flying into Essex County, NJ airport for the weekend. I took my father for a ride to the airport, didn't have money enough to send him up in the air, though. When we got there, the airplane was out flying people around. A few minutes later, we caught sight of her making her final approach. What a sight, truly breathtaking. Then one of the old timers who also paused to watch the landing, added, "You think that's something, just imagine a thousand of them." I took it that he had. Cheers to the EAA for keeping her in the air.
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