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Old 01-10-2013, 08:19 AM   #4156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyload View Post





May be we should poll the readership as to average income...success is knowing your target audience...
[/QUOTE]

Hmmm. Might be worth taking a look see, anyhow.

I'm pretty sure the Army is about to unload some C-27's, bet we could pick up a couple fairly cheap.[/QUOTE]


Define "fairly cheap"
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:32 AM   #4157
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[/QUOTE]Define "fairly cheap"[/QUOTE]

Cheaper than a 747, but more expensive than a Cessna...
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:42 PM   #4158
oldmanb777
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Originally Posted by kamanya View Post
Difference being, you don't own the aircraft or have share options in it. If it was your plane, you sure wouldn't feel the way you do now.
I do own a part of it, and my future is wrapped up in it, and my ass is strapped to it. The Pres and CEO has MUCH less ridding on it than I do, and that doesn't count my ass being strapped to it. He also isn't capable of making the decisions that I have to make. He doesn't even understand them, let alone, by law, make them. Thats a good thing too. The risk he would take with your rear end sitting in the seat would be a blood bath. Just look deeply into buffalo.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:05 PM   #4159
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Originally Posted by PunkinHead View Post
Yes, that's what a pilot is worth in the free market because that's what they and the 100 others standing in line behind them are willing to accept. I'm surprised pilots don't pay the airlines for the privilege of flying. I don't know of any other profession where this is true.
Firefighting.
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Old 01-11-2013, 03:00 AM   #4160
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Originally Posted by PackMule View Post
Firefighting.
????????
I thought you had a hard time finding pilots wiith expirence for SEAT's?
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:20 AM   #4161
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Originally Posted by PackMule View Post
Firefighting.
Firefighters in my small town start in the mid-twenties, average around forty, and top out around sixty. Not great, but mostly OJT and no debt to learn the trade. On the contrary, Captains with many Part 135 operations will never see forty.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:08 AM   #4162
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Most firefighters are volunteers...

Quote:
According to the National Fire Protection Association, 71 percent of firefighters in the United States are volunteers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_fire_department
NFE
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:17 AM   #4163
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Most firefighters are volunteers...



NFE
Ahhhh...I see...
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:30 AM   #4164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No False Enthusiasm View Post
Most firefighters are volunteers...



NFE
In all likelyhood, that's a misleading statistic.

I'd be willing to bet that, statistically, more fires requiring firefighter response are handled in the urban centres that employ those 29% of firefighters for whom fighting fires is a profession.


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Old 01-11-2013, 11:19 AM   #4165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No False Enthusiasm View Post
Most firefighters are volunteers...



NFE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying-D View Post
Ahhhh...I see...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lornce View Post
In all likelyhood, that's a misleading statistic.

I'd be willing to bet that, statistically, more fires requiring firefighter response are handled in the urban centres that employ those 29% of firefighters for whom fighting fires is a profession.


All statistics are misleading (or at least generated with a bias toward supporting a specific point).

By number of calls, absolutely, more than 29% are covered by professional firefighters. But when it comes time for contract negotiations, you're pretty undermined when there are better than three quarters of a million people doing "the same job" for free, many of whom would jump at the chance to step in to your hitches if you weren't satisfied with the wages or conditions offered.

And of course, the mis-truth in that is the same as in your line of work. I wouldn't want a hobbiest pilot flying my loved ones in a commercial airliner, just as I want an experienced professional to tend to my family's emergency.


I respect the work that community volunteers do , and in many locales, volunteer labor is all that they've chosen to support in terms of budgets and taxes. But in this day and age, it's unreasonable to expect someone to be able to keep up with education and maintain top flite proficiency as a hobby or side activity.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:41 AM   #4166
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After reading of peoples experiences here and of those that I personally know that fly for a living, I am surprised airlines and commercial operators have anyone available to fly their aircraft. Fixed or rotary.

I have made a couple of serious attempts to make flying a career over the years. I pretty much got talked out of it by experienced pilots. They all love flying, but if they had their time over, would do something else and just fly for fun. The sentiment is pretty much universal. Put your time, effort and hard earned into something that will bring just rewards. I can still do plenty of flying if I really want to and the IP's will be happy for the hours.

It's just as well the flying public are blissfully unaware of the shennanigans that goes on within commercial airlines. Knowing what I know now, I'm more nervous than when flying was new and a novelty.
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:05 AM   #4167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow10 View Post
After reading of peoples experiences here and of those that I personally know that fly for a living, I am surprised airlines and commercial operators have anyone available to fly their aircraft. Fixed or rotary.

I have made a couple of serious attempts to make flying a career over the years. I pretty much got talked out of it by experienced pilots. They all love flying, but if they had their time over, would do something else and just fly for fun. The sentiment is pretty much universal. .
Now there is a slight difference here, I think that most of us are happy with our career choice made many years ago in my case not much of a choice since the European way was to follow in your father's footsteps. What we see is the abuse that new hires all across aviation have to endure with no real assurance of a future. I never see doctors or attorneys or working for 25K and I look at all pilots not just majors. Most drillers and rig hands in this area make over $100.000 with no investment on their part. When you invest this kind of money and dedication in your flying training you should be able to raise a family on the proceeds and not have to depend on your spouse to pay bills and student loans. Not to mention that a lot of new pilots looking at the majors are not going to cut it, the selection process still includes a certain profile to match, read the standard pilot look...tall, thin and fit. The flight school is not going to tell you are 75 lbs overweight with an attitude problem. Bottom line think twice if your plan is the big airlines and not just the flying in general.
Yes you can fly for fun, buy an old Piper or Cessna for $30,000 put 300 hours on it and sell for the same amount or more when you get bored with it and decide to get a boat instead.
If you go ahead anyway do not plan on a 30 year career, how long before we get phased out of the flight deck...auto land...A/P goes on at 400' and off at 200' for most of us these days and SOPs discourage hand flying...
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:30 AM   #4168
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Beamer Pilot is right on target. I like flying. Glad I did it, and glad I could do it. I was lucky (As most are who make it to the big airlines). I had experience that could not be duplicated, that made me a better candidate than some others, even though I was not the typical astronaut physically. So they were willing to overlook a few extra lbs even though the AME (Aero Medical Dr.) recomended not to hire me. But i have beenn much healthier and used much less sick leave that most others. But I still had way too much wrapped up in my carreer for the returns. Today you can plan to spend somewhere in the area of $300,000 + and 5 or more years to get an entry level job that pays $17,000 a year with the only bennefits being almost a garrentee of some furlough time. Probably be somewhere near 10 yrs before you could think of feeding a family. You can't take your skills next door, and get a job. If you do, you start all over at the bottom. Bottom pay, worst schedules, and the first to be furloughed, again. You NEED to have other skills, and a second job. The only way we survived the bad years, was I always had a second job. And the bad years reoccur. Doesn't matter if you have 25 yrs or 5 yrs, the bad years are always just around the corner.
All so you can live under a microscope of govt,media,and company scrutiny. see what happens when you get speeding ticket, and some govt idiot in OKC thinks they should look into it. You think an IRS audit is bad, try an FAA audit. Every aspect of your private life is up to scrutiny at anytime by people who are jelous of you,hate you because you do something they can't, and they have absolutely no understanding of what you do, but have the power to make your life miserable. I like flying, I like being a pilot, I get tired of living out of a suitcase, i get tired of feeling like shit all the time because of jet lag, body clock screwed up, poor quality of available food, bio rythims screwed up, etc. I really get tired of the reduced pay and bennifits. I get tired of being hated by the company because I have to protect your life from thier quest of the bottom line, and hated by the public because I refuse to put them in harms way, so they can get where they want to go at the speed of sound when the outcome of that trip is in doubt. I hate being a target for every idiot that wants to make a big splash.
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:39 AM   #4169
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And now I'm off to a funeral, a fallen comrad. Pilot I have flown with for many years. He rode a nice RT.
Not sure what happened, but probably a blood clot. Appears triggered by long flt from India, and a virus they can't identify.
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:34 PM   #4170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyload View Post


I'm pretty sure the Army is about to unload some C-27's, bet we could pick up a couple fairly cheap.
I like that idea. It looks versatile enough to work government and private contracts. The big questions are acquisition and operating costs and could you sell the improved reliability/safety/performance that the C-27s would bring to the market they would compete in? I'm guessing spares aren't going to come cheap.

A good fire season could probably get the company off the ground if you could do a MAFFS conversion on the cheap. Make the wife the business owner and that'll give you a leg up in the bid process.

Get to be known as the Go-To air company for FEMA and the Interagency Fire Center (Fire teams are being mobilized in "disasters" these days) and Global Climate Change could be a real money maker.

Let me know if you need somebody to run the flight department.

p.s. we'd need to equip the aircraft with refurbed Trail 90s for crew transport on deployment. KLRs wouldn't project the desired image...
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