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Old 11-05-2013, 05:39 AM   #5536
VictorBravoMikeIndia
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Maybe they were too close at the start of the jump run ? When the SkyDivers climb out on the R/H wing strut the plane banks right and seems to descend . At 12000 feet what is the controllability like especially in Roll at the slow speeds in the Run -In ?

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Last week, we have just taken off, are still on departure, maybe 100' off the ground in a bright yellow Cub, we see some idiot that turns from base to final right at us. We veer to our right the best we can, and they just continue on final and land. I bet a go around didn't ever cross their minds.
Maybe just as well they continued to land..........otherwise they would have had another opportunity to have a airprox with you ?
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Old 11-05-2013, 06:16 AM   #5537
UngaWunga
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Originally Posted by VictorBravoMikeIndia View Post
Maybe just as well they continued to land..........otherwise they would have had another opportunity to have a airprox with you ?
lower plane has right of way... don't make me break out the FAR/AIM...

They were above us, descending right towards us. I've had other close calls due to other plans entering the runway when were on final. This isn't a complicated field... single runway grass strip. We do a close pattern in the Cub, we're not hard to see if you look.
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Old 11-05-2013, 06:27 AM   #5538
VictorBravoMikeIndia
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Yep...same Rules of the Air as over here.

Flying you have to use the same mindset as motorcycling....treat everyone else like they are out to kill you

Safe Cubbing !
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Old 11-05-2013, 06:28 AM   #5539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UngaWunga View Post

Speaking of stupid stuff... I only have 13 hours flying, but man I've seen some stupid maneuvers at our local uncontrolled airport. People just not looking out the windows at what others are doing, expecting everyone else to look out for them and get out of their way. Last week, we have just taken off, are still on departure, maybe 100' off the ground in a bright yellow Cub, we see some idiot that turns from base to final right at us. We veer to our right the best we can, and they just continue on final and land. I bet a go around didn't ever cross their minds.
As amazing as it sounds, and you'll learn this as you gain experience...the other pilot may have never seen you.

I was landing at an uncontrolled field in Benton KS and apparently cut-off a Starduster II. I was using unicom calls, he wasn't. The guy was irate and made it clear while I was at the pumps afterward. I never even saw him. Then again...maybe he should have been on unicom...

Were you?
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:07 AM   #5540
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Originally Posted by Flying-D View Post
As amazing as it sounds, and you'll learn this as you gain experience...the other pilot may have never seen you.

I was landing at an uncontrolled field in Benton KS and apparently cut-off a Starduster II. I was using unicom calls, he wasn't. The guy was irate and made it clear while I was at the pumps afterward. I never even saw him. Then again...maybe he should have been on unicom...

Were you?
No electrical system in the Cub, no radio. Don't need it for pattern flying in the class of airspace we're in. Yes, it would be a good idea, but I have enough on my hands with crosswind takeoffs and landings.

Either way, he was nose down in a decent, using the wrong end of the runway. A simple look at the runway from the downwind leg would've shown what pattern everyone was using and what the windsocks/flags were showing. Or a call on unicom to the office. But whatever. Lesson learned by me to always look out the windows.

I can see the point of not seeing. There's a lot going on. We took off right next to a flock of Canadian geese the other day. That was exciting, trees on the left, geese on the right... shitshitshit
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:20 AM   #5541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying-D

I was landing at an uncontrolled field in Benton KS and apparently cut-off a Starduster II. I was using unicom calls, he wasn't. The guy was irate and made it clear while I was at the pumps afterward. I never even saw him. Then again...maybe he should have been on unicom...

Were you?
There's no reason to expect other aircraft at an uncontrolled airport to have a radio. A handheld in a cub is pretty much useless unless the owner has installed an external antenna and shielded ignition.
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:33 AM   #5542
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Originally Posted by UngaWunga View Post
No electrical system in the Cub, no radio. Don't need it for pattern flying in the class of airspace we're in. Yes, it would be a good idea, but I have enough on my hands with crosswind takeoffs and landings.

Either way, he was nose down in a decent, using the wrong end of the runway. A simple look at the runway from the downwind leg would've shown what pattern everyone was using and what the windsocks/flags were showing. Or a call on unicom to the office. But whatever. Lesson learned by me to always look out the windows.

I can see the point of not seeing. There's a lot going on. We took off right next to a flock of Canadian geese the other day. That was exciting, trees on the left, geese on the right... shitshitshit
I'm an ATC'er (for over 30 years), so I'm a big fan of using a radio anywhere I go. It's not required to use unicom anywhere that I know of, just recommended. I've seen $20,000,000 jets land without a peep on the radio. I also got to see a nice little over/under at the runway intersection (our runways cross at midfield) between a departing C-130 (who was using unicom) and a landing C-172 (who wasn't). By your description, there were multiple aircraft in the pattern there. That's enough for me to use a hand-held if I could round one up.

I know that some people have flown almost their entire lives without using the radio, it just never worked for me in any environment, although I rarely fly any more anyway. I wish everyone did, because it's obviously safer for everyone to be playing by the same rules at any airport, but since it isn't required, the old head-on-a-swivel approach is always best anyway.
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:34 AM   #5543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PunkinHead View Post
There's no reason to expect other aircraft at an uncontrolled airport to have a radio. A handheld in a cub is pretty much useless unless the owner has installed an external antenna and shielded ignition.
Those are good points.
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:37 AM   #5544
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And I should mention that I have installed an antenna and shielded ignition in my Cub, but that's not an option for renters. I flew Cubs/Champs/Chiefs for years sans radio. Not because I wanted to but because they were rentals. I'd always prefer to have a radio.
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:48 AM   #5545
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Originally Posted by PunkinHead View Post
And I should mention that I have installed an antenna and shielded ignition in my Cub, but that's not an option for renters. I flew Cubs/Champs/Chiefs for years sans radio. Not because I wanted to but because they were rentals. I'd always prefer to have a radio.
Yup. Would love to own a plane. But damn things are expenive.

Anyways, will be interesting to see the NTSB report on the collision. Can you see tail numbers on the planes in the video? 99% of those reports blame the pilot...
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:51 AM   #5546
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Originally Posted by UngaWunga View Post
99% of those reports blame the pilot...
I don't know that I disagree with that.....but I don't know which pilot. Looks to me like they share the blame. The pilot in the video is in the left seat, with another aircraft slightly ahead, below and to his right. I don't see how he had any way to see the other plane clearly, unless he has x-ray vision. Likewise, the other pilot would have had to look over his shoulder and see through his wing in order to keep the first aircraft in sight. Seems that in this situation and given that both aircraft were high wing Cessnas, the trail aircraft should have be above and behind on the lead plane's right, so that pilot could keep the other aircraft in sight at all times.
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Old 11-05-2013, 09:04 AM   #5547
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Originally Posted by UngaWunga View Post
lower plane has right of way... don't make me break out the FAR/AIM...

They were above us, descending right towards us. I've had other close calls due to other plans entering the runway when were on final. This isn't a complicated field... single runway grass strip. We do a close pattern in the Cub, we're not hard to see if you look.
But doesn't the plane in front also have the right of way (since they probably can't see the rearward plane)?
How does that get resolved?

(in this case upper plane might have been aware of lower plane, of course)
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Old 11-05-2013, 11:49 AM   #5548
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Originally Posted by XR650L_Dave View Post
But doesn't the plane in front also have the right of way (since they probably can't see the rearward plane)?
How does that get resolved?

(in this case upper plane might have been aware of lower plane, of course)

It is the overtaking planes responsibility to shift. I suppose that equates to the slower plane having the right of way.
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Old 11-05-2013, 12:34 PM   #5549
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Was day dreaming in a meeting today, and thought 'holy shit, that pilot sure reacted quick!'

Your plane loses a wing. You've got to unbuckle, open the door, and get out of a tumbling plane that was flying perfectly well a few seconds ago. Then get away from the plane, open your emergency chute... Crazy he had an emergency chute.
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Old 11-05-2013, 12:39 PM   #5550
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Since they were both skydiving airplanes and from the same airport, one would think they would have known that each was in the sky at the same time and for the same purpose, and would have been looking out for each other.
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