ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Layin' down tracks
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 06-17-2009, 10:39 AM   #91
Albie
Kool Aid poisoner
 
Albie's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: NWA
Oddometer: 8,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRW
Precisely my point with my earlier posts. The general "mass market" for GPS devices is shrinking for Garmin, as the technology becomes increasingly ubiquitous in smartphones and PCs for mainstream users, who only need basic, nuvi-like functionality. The only way for Garmin to slow the bleeding is to adopt the polar opposite strategy that they're on, i.e. focus on, and delight, specialized market segments and users - like us, in order to competitively differentiate themselves and thus, command a more profitable, sticky and sustainable customer/revenue base. The 640, in its current form, is NOT that strategy...
Problem is, there's not enough money in a specialized segment for a company that's been dealing in a broad market. It's one thing to build a company in specialization, a whole other ball game to revert a company. Most stockholders of said company wouldn't approve.
Albie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2009, 10:59 AM   #92
PRW
living @ 11.5740741uHz
 
PRW's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Chicago
Oddometer: 1,092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albie
Problem is, there's not enough money in a specialized segment for a company that's been dealing in a broad market. It's one thing to build a company in specialization, a whole other ball game to revert a company. Most stockholders of said company wouldn't approve.
Seems to me there aren't a lot of alternative options for Garmin, assuming their shareholders want them to survive. The mass market has begun, and will continue to, substitute demand for nuvi-like GPS devices with alternate navigation aids, such as smartphones, OEM automotive systems and Google Maps on their PCs.

I'm not suggesting that their revenue will ever reach their heyday levels, under a strategy that focuses on specialized user segments. Rather, I suggest that this is the only way to optimize their deteriorating situation, given the inevitable market forces at play. Yes, the addressable market size/revenue pie will indeed be smaller, however the smaller pie's revenue stream will return higher margins to the bottom line (as a percentage), based on the higher willingness-to-pay and stickiness of more specialized users.
__________________
When Im riding my motorcycle, Im glad to be alive and when I stop riding my motorcycle, Im glad to be alive. -Neil Peart

2008 R1200GS (Slate Gray Metallic Matt)
2003 R1150GS (Night Black)
PRW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2009, 11:09 AM   #93
PRW
living @ 11.5740741uHz
 
PRW's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Chicago
Oddometer: 1,092
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmmEff
Garmin's website shows a comparison...

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/compare....areProduct=401

The difference only appears to be with the included maps. The 378 comes with inland maps and the 478 comes with coastal maps. They're seemingly identical otherwise.
+1
__________________
When Im riding my motorcycle, Im glad to be alive and when I stop riding my motorcycle, Im glad to be alive. -Neil Peart

2008 R1200GS (Slate Gray Metallic Matt)
2003 R1150GS (Night Black)
PRW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2009, 11:32 AM   #94
inspectorpacket
back in the saddle again.
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Metro Atl
Oddometer: 232
$474 for 478 factory refurb from getfeetwet.com


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramps
I think the 640 is still a good thing. Have you seen the prices on a 478 lately? 570$ on Amazon. They weren't less than 800$ a year ago.
inspectorpacket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2009, 01:31 PM   #95
EmmEff
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Innisfil, Ontario, Canada
Oddometer: 1,674
Quote:
Originally Posted by inspectorpacket
$474 for 478 factory refurb from getfeetwet.com
Better than the prices I've seen on eBay... awfully tempting now!
EmmEff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2009, 07:48 PM   #96
Albie
Kool Aid poisoner
 
Albie's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: NWA
Oddometer: 8,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRW
Seems to me there aren't a lot of alternative options for Garmin, assuming their shareholders want them to survive. The mass market has begun, and will continue to, substitute demand for nuvi-like GPS devices with alternate navigation aids, such as smartphones, OEM automotive systems and Google Maps on their PCs.

I'm not suggesting that their revenue will ever reach their heyday levels, under a strategy that focuses on specialized user segments. Rather, I suggest that this is the only way to optimize their deteriorating situation, given the inevitable market forces at play. Yes, the addressable market size/revenue pie will indeed be smaller, however the smaller pie's revenue stream will return higher margins to the bottom line (as a percentage), based on the higher willingness-to-pay and stickiness of more specialized users.
Well, there's one other obvious alternative. Make even more dumbed down, cheaper mass produced units and flood the market. Basically, make the units a loss leader and recoup the money on accessories and maps. Seems like they've been headed in that direction anyway.
Albie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 04:13 AM   #97
Gros Buck
Beef = Packed Vegetables
 
Gros Buck's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Quebec City, Canada
Oddometer: 847
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbski
Which is better and why?
Do not approach the 378 even with a 20 foot stick.

The 378 do not allow you to download a previously planned route from a PC.

I explain. You plan a route from New York to San Francisco via Chicago on your computer. When you download that road to your 378, it will let you think the route is downloaded, but once you try to use it on your GPS, it will recalculate the route considering only the starting and ending point. I.e. through New Orlean or whatever route the GPS will calculate (God knows where). I.e no planned route.

Unless you REALLY need fresh water routes (i.e. inland water navigation) don't touch the 378.

Paul Jr
__________________
KTM690r 2011
Gros Buck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 04:14 AM   #98
Gros Buck
Beef = Packed Vegetables
 
Gros Buck's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Quebec City, Canada
Oddometer: 847
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmmEff
Better than the prices I've seen on eBay... awfully tempting now!
Do not touch a refurb,

It's my third one.

None of them lasted more than 2 month.

Paul Jr
__________________
KTM690r 2011
Gros Buck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 04:16 AM   #99
Gros Buck
Beef = Packed Vegetables
 
Gros Buck's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Quebec City, Canada
Oddometer: 847
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueLghtning
You do not want the 378. Garmin did something weird with the inland lake data and mapset and when you goto transfer routes, it will re-calc your entire route only keeping your start and end points.
Oups !!!

I just read it ...

Paul Jr
__________________
KTM690r 2011
Gros Buck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 07:34 AM   #100
PRW
living @ 11.5740741uHz
 
PRW's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Chicago
Oddometer: 1,092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albie
Well, there's one other obvious alternative. Make even more dumbed down, cheaper mass produced units and flood the market. Basically, make the units a loss leader and recoup the money on accessories and maps. Seems like they've been headed in that direction anyway.
How much more dumbed down can Garmin make the low-end units they already have? And they've already flooded the pre-GPS-smartphone mass market with those dumbed-down devices.

The mass market has, and will increasingly continue to, steadily adopt GPS-equipped smartphones, Google Maps and/or OEM Automotive GPS systems, to satisfy basic navigation demand. At the same time, Garmin is brilliantly abandoning specialized users like us, as evidenced by the introduction of the dumbed-down 640 (at $1,200) and their pitiful tech support of late -- hence Garmin's steadily eroding revenue performance. And unless they decide to enter the highly competitive smartphone market, with which they would very likely fail against the bigger established players, like Apple, BB, Palm, Nokia, Sony-Ericsson, Moto, et al, they will very soon no longer be able to serve that mass market - I maintain that it's already too late for them.

So I stand by my previously posted analysis: Unless they preserve their specialized customer niches by delighting them with more feature richness and functionality, they will die an unpleasant death...
__________________
When Im riding my motorcycle, Im glad to be alive and when I stop riding my motorcycle, Im glad to be alive. -Neil Peart

2008 R1200GS (Slate Gray Metallic Matt)
2003 R1150GS (Night Black)
PRW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 07:38 AM   #101
PRW
living @ 11.5740741uHz
 
PRW's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Chicago
Oddometer: 1,092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros Buck
Do not approach the 378 even with a 20 foot stick.

The 378 do not allow you to download a previously planned route from a PC.

I explain. You plan a route from New York to San Francisco via Chicago on your computer. When you download that road to your 378, it will let you think the route is downloaded, but once you try to use it on your GPS, it will recalculate the route considering only the starting and ending point. I.e. through New Orlean or whatever route the GPS will calculate (God knows where). I.e no planned route.
Paul Jr
Very strange. The 478 does not have this issue, IME. I've downloaded routes from both MapSource and RoadTrip to the 478 and it does not change the route. I wonder why the 378 would behave differently?
__________________
When Im riding my motorcycle, Im glad to be alive and when I stop riding my motorcycle, Im glad to be alive. -Neil Peart

2008 R1200GS (Slate Gray Metallic Matt)
2003 R1150GS (Night Black)
PRW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 11:22 AM   #102
BlueLghtning
Riding is my passion
 
BlueLghtning's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Newnan, GA
Oddometer: 4,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRW
Very strange. The 478 does not have this issue, IME. I've downloaded routes from both MapSource and RoadTrip to the 478 and it does not change the route. I wonder why the 378 would behave differently?
I've never owned one, but the only thing I can assume is that since they tied the water inlays to the street maps and you attempt to send a route you set up on your PC, the street maps on the GPS don't really match the GPS maps even if its the same version, and it will force you to re-calc it.

It would be similar if you've ever tried to create a route on a different version of City Nav on the PC then whats in your GPS and send it to it, you get a message that says the maps don't match the roads and it has to recalc it or if you choose no, it gives you a direct route from waypoint to waypoint ignoring the roads. If you let it re-calc it, it only takes the starting and ending points and gives you a new route. My best guess is the 378 always suffers from this regardless if the pc maps and the GPS maps are the same version.

I would think the way around this might be to create a direct route on the PC and send it over to the GPS. When you do this, you aren't sending "route data", just wayponts that it has no trouble matching up. In this case when you tell the GPS to re-calc it, it uses all of your waypoints/via points you had in that route. If you put enough in there, you probably can force it to go the way you want, although it still comes down to the GPS.
__________________
BlueLghtning - Follow me on my SPOT Messenger
Mine: 09 DL650, 08 WR250R,
Hers: 07 Ninja 650R, 13 CRF250L,
Smugmug Pics - Save $5 <-- Click Here
BlueLghtning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 08:26 PM   #103
Albie
Kool Aid poisoner
 
Albie's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: NWA
Oddometer: 8,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRW

So I stand by my previously posted analysis: Unless they preserve their specialized customer niches by delighting them with more feature richness and functionality, they will die an unpleasant death...

And I'll stand by mine, let em, I'm done with em!
Albie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 08:27 PM   #104
Albie
Kool Aid poisoner
 
Albie's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: NWA
Oddometer: 8,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRW
Very strange. The 478 does not have this issue, IME. I've downloaded routes from both MapSource and RoadTrip to the 478 and it does not change the route. I wonder why the 378 would behave differently?
That's because the 378 and 478 use TWO DIFFERENT CN mapsets.
Albie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2009, 05:12 AM   #105
PRW
living @ 11.5740741uHz
 
PRW's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Chicago
Oddometer: 1,092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albie
And I'll stand by mine, let em, I'm done with em!
Oh how I wish I weren't true. I do not predict Garmin's demise with glee - just facing the uncomfortable truth head-on. I used to LOVE Garmin - thought they were one of the best consumer electronics companies around and I rewarded them a lot of my hard-earned cash over the years. Let's hope the shareholders boot out their moronic management team very, very soon - the only prayer Garmin has is to reverse their current, illusionary "mass market" strategy, which has a very bad ending, and get serious again about specialized users.

Funny thing is, for our niche, simply incorporating all the missing features of the 478 (Tracks/Routes, XM Weather in all modes,, etc.) into the next-gen hardware platform of the 640 would regain the loyalty of many. How difficult could that be? The software code exists, it's not like a ground-up development effort. Completely baffling...
__________________
When Im riding my motorcycle, Im glad to be alive and when I stop riding my motorcycle, Im glad to be alive. -Neil Peart

2008 R1200GS (Slate Gray Metallic Matt)
2003 R1150GS (Night Black)
PRW is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014