Alternative fuel pumps for FI KTM990

[The Fist]

I just returned 4 days early from a solo trip into the deserts of Utah --

I was about 300 miles from home and 20 miles into the Burr Trail when the bike (2008 990 Adventure) started starving for fuel. The bike would idle fine but when given throttle would chug along at about 2mph -- I was lucky to have been in a position to turn around and retreat to civilization, albeit very slowly with the bike dying every quarter mile.

My guess is that the filters have become clogged but who knows, the pump might be failing as well. Had I been in a position to swap pumps trailside, I would saved myself ALOT of hassle. I didn't attempt to repair this issue at the gas station for fear that I would be only further from home once I started riding again and might be worse off with a false sense of confidence....

Point is: 990's do have "fuel pump issues" and I am following this thread with great interest. Thanks to everyone involved.

[scorpion]

Originally Posted by The Fist

I just returned 4 days early from a solo trip into the deserts of Utah --

I was about 300 miles from home and 20 miles into the Burr Trail when the bike (2008 990 Adventure) started starving for fuel. The bike would idle fine but when given throttle would chug along at about 2mph -- I was lucky to have been in a position to turn around and retreat to civilization, albeit very slowly with the bike dying every quarter mile.

My guess is that the filters have become clogged but who knows, the pump might be failing as well. Had I been in a position to swap pumps trailside, I would saved myself ALOT of hassle. I didn't attempt to repair this issue at the gas station for fear that I would be only further from home once I started riding again and might be worse off with a false sense of confidence....

Point is: 990's do have "fuel pump issues" and I am following this thread with great interest. Thanks to everyone involved.

Do you still have the canister?
Sounds like my problem before canisterectomy

[sp4ce]

Originally Posted by tumbler45

First thing I did was pull off the filters and check them out. They were brown, but did not seem to be clogged. I could blow through them will no resistance (for whatever that is worth). I have also had the problem happen on a 50 degree day within 15 miles of filling up.

Rather than spend $115 on a filter set and $60 on the orings (which is crazy!) I am going to buy a complete pump assembly and have a back up pump to carry.

Fair enough, I can understand that.

When my filters failed they were similar - brown, but otherwise not obviously clogged. I wouldn't have believed that was the problem if I hadn't blown the filter out with gasoline and compressed air and had it temporarily fix it.

You can re-use the o-rings. Mine have been in and out a half dozen times and are still sealing fine. They are pretty hacked, but that is mostly because I am a ham-fisted wrench.

Next time I have the pump out, I'll put in normal Viton o-rings instead of magic $60 KTM o-rings. If anyone has source and part number or dimensions for replacements, chime in. I know others here have done this.

[tumbler45]

The last time I put my pump back in I cut one of the orings. I went to my local hydraulic shop and they gave me something that wasn't the exact size, but it has sealed perfectly. I can track down a p/n and post it.

They were $1.25 for 2 sets of orings.

I may try swapping just the filters first to see if my pump is in fact failing, but regardless I like the idea of having a spare pump to carry for the far from anywhere trips (Goose bay and beyond this summer!).

[Autostream]

Originally Posted by tumbler45

First thing I did was pull off the filters and check them out. They were brown, but did not seem to be clogged. I could blow through them will no resistance (for whatever that is worth). I have also had the problem happen on a 50 degree day within 15 miles of filling up....

10 degrees celcius... hmm... there goes that theory...

[azkiwi]

Originally Posted by The Fist

Point is: 990's do have "fuel pump issues" and I am following this thread with great interest.

Just to keep this boiling;

Point is: 990's may have "fuel filter issues".

Maybe they just spec'd too fine of a filter? How bad does Super get?

[sp4ce]

Originally Posted by azkiwi

How bad does Super get?

Depends...

[Gimme 2]

Does this sound like it fits the symptoms?
Add fuel or let it cool and all is fine.
Cold ambient temps and all is fine.
Hot ambient temps and it all happens faster.
Traffic, where radiator heat is soaked into fuel tank, all is worse.
Freeways, more airflow throught radiator so less absorbed into tank, runs better.


Get the idea?[/quote]

good assumptions , yes .......but mine began to fail with rain approaching brrrhh, and i was holding a constant speed for close to an hr of 140 ks per hr, yes real ks gps hooked up, to see the fuel consumption rate at this speed and for the fun factor, and also once the bike was switched off and then straight back on again it was fine for another 15 - 20 mins before slowly getting worse on a progressive downward scale,
It was a long day Coolgardie to Fremantle so by the end i was doing it on the move , as soon as i felt the bike becoming slack in the power i would if i remember correct turn off the key so every thing was dead and then turn it back on then hit the starter with the clutch pulled in, down a gear to fourth or fivth and away she'd go again. 500 odd ks of this and i was home, not before stopping at the pub in freofor a well earned ale geez it was cold had to stop in Merrinden? for a poncho.

I am hoping that there are'nt any spooks in the fuel pump maybe im just unlucky and i bet im not the only one hopeing that but , i rekon there is a suspect issue with them as a few people seem to have had similar issues. Time will tell .

[911racer]

I'm following this thread as I would like to have a out-board pump/filter for easy access and diagnostics on the side of the road.

[911racer]

hey any updates on this?

[shawty950]

Originally Posted by Autostream

10 degrees celcius... hmm... there goes that theory...

Hey Auto,
got 2 question's and train of thought for you...

Does fuel get more dense when it's cold?...

What does water do to paper filters?..swelling/closing of the pleats = reduced flow?

ie from a point of view of being pushed thru a clogged filter?

I have just started having issues with mine(07 36k km) and pulled my pump apart last night.
Screen was dirty..ish but flowed well and when washed didn't shed much in the way of debris.
The hi pressure side filter is paper with an OD of approx 30mm and an id of about 20mm and 25mm deep.
Had a fair amount of restriction when I blew thru it...
On inspection it was very dirty and inside appeared to have droplets of water.
Tried washing it in petrol and it basically broke apart. (and there was fair bit of crap that came out of it)

If you can give me your thoughts....this may explain some of the issues of cavitation/starvation when it's cold (as opposed being heat induced)
...cold fuel more dense thru clogged filter = restriction...water swelling the pleats of the filter

I put my pump back together again without the post hi pressure side paper filter...and was going to look for something to replace it with/make fit at repco today etc...but what I think I;ll do now is a slimline external EFI fuel filter mounted to the frame with longer fuel line.

I rode it to work today...and it was fine and the roll on in top gear(that used to bog and miss) was gone. Tonight will be the test as its cooler when I ride home( as well as most of my issues have been when its cooler).

Anyways...

Here's some piccies of the filter...

Screen


Post pump paper filter...lookin kinda crap (is it supposed to be able to have the top and bottom removed?..)


THought it was f'd anyways so I pulled it apart




Shawty

[sp4ce]

Originally Posted by shawty950

....

Here's some piccies of the filter...

....


Shawty

Those filters are FILTHY! The dirtiest I have seen.

A few notes:

- The prescreen sock won't shed much when washed. It is multilayer and traps debri inside it pretty well.

- The sock isn't very fine as you can see and passes a lot of crap through the pump to the paper filter (Obviously, while you are running without that paper filter, all the stuff that you found inside it is going through your injectors and engine. )

- I've had the paper filter come apart in my hands on extraction before, also. The glue was hardened and crumbling. At least at USD 115 a pop, you know you are getting quality.



As for the external filter setup you describe, I can imagine a few potential drawbacks. 1) Dirty gas is now going to be passed through your pressure regulator. No clue if that will affect it. 2) That same dirty gas is going to be re-circulating through the pump multiple times. No clue if that will shorten it's life. 3) Will relocation of the filter from one side of the pressure regulator to the other change delivered pressure to the injectors?

I considered the same external filter setup and ended up not doing it because I didn't know the answers to those questions. You can't buy the pressure reg separate from the pump, so if concerns 1 or 2 end up being valid, you are out USD 475 for a new pump.

[crashmaster]

Interesting. On my SA trip leaving later this month, I'm taking an entire spare filter assembly and 2 filter kits. In addition, I'm going to prefilter all of my fuel through a 20 um filter before it hits the tanks.

And............

I'll probably still have issues, but its worth a try.

[ADVJake]

Wow... and the 950s dont even have filters ?? i'll be sure to buy one for the 990 carb conversion.

[shawty950]

Originally Posted by sp4ce

Those filters are FILTHY! The dirtiest I have seen.

A few notes:

- The sock isn't very fine as you can see and passes a lot of crap through the pump to the paper filter (Obviously, while you are running without that paper filter, all the stuff that you found inside it is going through your injectors and engine. )
Unfortunately...only transport...and it was kinda...just this once.
Will fix tomorrow.

a few potential drawbacks.
1) Dirty gas is now going to be passed through your pressure regulator. No clue if that will affect it.
Good point...got me thinking...see below
2) That same dirty gas is going to be re-circulating through the pump multiple times. No clue if that will shorten it's life.

3) Will relocation of the filter from one side of the pressure regulator to the other change delivered pressure to the injectors?
Yes it would...to a degree...you'd lose pressure post filter....but the pump wouldn;t burn out as the fpr would bypass increasingly as the filter clogged.

I considered the same external filter setup and ended up not doing it because I didn't know the answers to those questions. You can't buy the pressure reg separate from the pump, so if concerns 1 or 2 end up being valid, you are out USD 475 for a new pump.

I've had a rethink of this...and basically going to try this:-

- Get a car efi fuel filter...1980's Nissan Skyline...Ryco Part number Z200 or Z387
eg. http://www.rycofilters.com.au/catalo...line/part/Z387
- Remove oem FPR.
- Cut off top of plastic that houses the fpr/paper filter.
- barbed fitting screwed into high pres gallery from pump...then mount car filter..short hose with T piece.
One - goes down to barbed fitting screwed into plastic base that o-rings to outlet brass tube
Other goes to OEM FPR mounted via high pressure fuel line with hose clamps.

OR

find a filter to replace the OEM one...as long as the id and od are close...it can be longer as their is a bit of clearance with the spring compressed a bit....


Will mock it up tonight and go buy some parts tomorrow...post some pics sat arvo....could be good...or as you yanks say "An epic FAIL"

Shawty