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Old 01-14-2009, 10:01 AM   #31
Surfn54
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Pete, Thanks for the help!
Let me try to reply one at a time here:
1) I am happy with the TW.....It is what it is.....I have had lots of bikes and yes If you want to go lots faster, then get another bike.
I just wanted to strike that mysterious improvement balance!
2) I have already decided to replace the chain, but what did you finally decide on the rear? Also, on the front...Did you keep the front 14 or go to 15?
3) The TW200Forum is broken. New guys like meself cannot join, so thats why I came over here. (Whoever runs it will not respond to the join approval process)
I have read every thread possible on this subject ( I think) But its not very consistent and few back up there opinions with any real good explanation. Your response is good and clear.

Thanks again,

sURF
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:42 AM   #32
neepuk OP
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Just leave well-enough alone....

This is my answer to both of the questions most recently presented.

Move the thread? Nah, I'm betting that this thread will get enough activity to stay in the top 3 pages of Thumpers for quite some time. These little bike are a hot item and many are still unmodified.
If you post it, they will read...

Gearing....
I've got 2 TW's. One has the stock gearing and the other has the stocker up front and a 45 tooth out back. I like the stock set up better. The stock set-up gives me a better ability to crawl around in first gear and stay on the pegs in the really tight or difficult situations. The 14/45 requires a bit more speed and skill. I don't ride over 65 EVER on my TW and I usually stay under 55...
In deep sand a first gear take off is easier with the lower stock gearing and once you get through the gears you'll find that the bike has enough power to glide in 4th or 5th where the bike that are geared higher will run out of power in 3rd or 4th. Top speed in deep sand is higher with stock gears than with the 14/45.

FYI: The TW has one of the widest range of gear ratios around. The ratios between 1st and 5th are greater than most bike range between 1st and 6th. It's not a "close-ratio" gear box.
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:17 AM   #33
dynamos2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfn54
Pete, Thanks for the help!
Let me try to reply one at a time here:
1) I am happy with the TW.....It is what it is.....I have had lots of bikes and yes If you want to go lots faster, then get another bike.
I just wanted to strike that mysterious improvement balance!
2) I have already decided to replace the chain, but what did you finally decide on the rear? Also, on the front...Did you keep the front 14 or go to 15?
3) The TW200Forum is broken. New guys like meself cannot join, so thats why I came over here. (Whoever runs it will not respond to the join approval process)
I have read every thread possible on this subject ( I think) But its not very consistent and few back up there opinions with any real good explanation. Your response is good and clear.

Thanks again,

sURF
I recently joined but dont like the forum very much. I asked about going to the 47 tooth in back (doing that and leaving the stock front seems best for just commuting and playin in the dirt isn't as high on the priority list as commuting for me).

Instead of just a yes or no whether I could keep the stock chain and do that, i just got "replace the chain it sucks" and "who knows", etc. instead of just answering the damn question.

I'll be doin the 47 at some point but 55mph seems like it will be fine as is and after my quick test ride, i need to do something about the lack of braking before I worry about going faster
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dynamos2000 screwed with this post 01-14-2009 at 11:22 AM
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:35 AM   #34
Surfn54
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Thats the same responses that I read and its very frustrating. So far, everyone has made nice clear responses here. I hope this keeps going!
Thanks to all!


sURFs uP!
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:43 AM   #35
neepuk OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamos2000

I'll be doin the 47 at some point but 55mph seems like it will be fine as is and after my quick test ride, i need to do something about the lack of braking before I worry about going faster
Man, you've got a disc brake up front and you feel you need more braking? Lucky you... Try a SS braided brake line. Lots of us have drum brakes up front too. Faster is not an option.
I would like a little more low-end and mid-range grunt though.
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Old 01-14-2009, 04:17 PM   #36
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TW200 gearing & chain

Surf,
I went the opposite way from you...Lower gearing with a 58 tooth rear sprocket, DID )-ring chain, stock counter-shaft sprocket. (My bike is the one in "Hacks" under "Yamahamer thread" Nice guy took several pix of my re-built machine.)

The stock chain DOES suck, but if you are willing to keep adjusting as it stretches, use it for awhile and THEN get a better one.
My thought was that if the soft counter-shaft sprocket wasn't worn yet, a new chain & sprocket in the back might help it last longer.

I "think" that the stock chain size is an oddball one, and when my current sprockets and chain are worn I will try to get larger "common size" chain and custom sprockets.
Of course, if the small DID chain holds-up dragging the hack aroudn there won't be much point in going to a larger pitch chan/sprockets.(Remember to check that you don't have sloppy under-size hub/sprocket bolts like I did.)
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:06 PM   #37
neepuk OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradox Pete
I "think" that the stock chain size is an oddball one, and when my current sprockets and chain are worn I will try to get larger "common size" chain and custom sprockets.
I just changed out the ORIGINAL chain and sprocks on my 1991. The stockers all lasted 11,350 miles! The sprocket teeth look like shark fins and the chain bends sideways almost as well as it bends around the sprockets but it still made it over 11k.

The chain size is a 428 and the oddball thing about it is that you need 124 links... The standard 120 link chains are too short for stock gearing. If you change to "street" gearing and run a 45 tooth rear you can get away with the 120 link chain.
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Old 01-15-2009, 05:57 AM   #38
dynamos2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neepuk
I just changed out the ORIGINAL chain and sprocks on my 1991. The stockers all lasted 11,350 miles! The sprocket teeth look like shark fins and the chain bends sideways almost as well as it bends around the sprockets but it still made it over 11k.

The chain size is a 428 and the oddball thing about it is that you need 124 links... The standard 120 link chains are too short for stock gearing. If you change to "street" gearing and run a 45 tooth rear you can get away with the 120 link chain.
See thats what i'm talkin about! If I can get 5-10k on the stock setup, i can deal with how "horrible" it is lol great post
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Old 01-15-2009, 09:09 AM   #39
tpar1220
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i changed to a 15 tooth front sprocket....didn't like it. i suppose if u ride nothing but street, and don't have many steep grades to climb...the 15 would be ok.

i went back to stock gearing, i take the tw off road a good bit and the 15 just killed it on single track.

i suppose if u could throw a big bore kit in the tw, then it would take more gearing, the way it is.....the lil tw won't take it. unless u live in il. (no hill in sight), and ride street only.
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Old 01-15-2009, 11:21 AM   #40
Paradox Pete
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Pissed FRONT TIRES (wailing & gnashing of gums....)

Unfortunately the Maxxis 6006 130/80 - 18 has been disc. by manuf., so I have been informed by Bike Bandit 888-339-3888 in the cancellation of my tire order.

Still available are the Dunlop 606 size 130/90 - 18 in similar aggressive tread pattern. (Which I now have one order...
Height is 10mm larger with the 606, but this is so little that it will probably not cause any greater problems with the minimal clearance front fender than with stock tire.

Another possibility is the Metzler 140/80 - 18 (possibly a 130?/80) MCE Karoo, which I am told is not quite as aggressive a pattern as the Dunlop 606, or the late lamented Maxxis 6006.

Expect to have some confusion in ordering because tires of the right size for a front tire on our T-Dub's are generally listed as a REAR tires.
(If it IS "directional", run the little arrow BACKWARDS since it was put on to indicate direction of rotation of a DRIVEN(rear) tire.)

Why a more aggresive tread than stock Bridgestone?
The stock front tire is designed more for pavement than dirt or gravel and (hopefully!) the more aggressive tread will bite thru loose stuff and grip on sometheing soiid while still performing on pavement fairly well.(I might be on pavement 1 mile in 15 or 20 on dirt/gravel...)

Rear tires on a mimimally powered bike that are this WIDE, (180/80 - 14), don't need any more aggressive tread than stock Bridgestone, IMO.
You want to be able to slide a bit (as long as it is on the BACK tire!)
Also, if you "hook-up" your rear off-road in rocks etc. like a cog railway, you are more tended to get gear-lash/chain-snatch that sounds like you are knocking the bottom end out of your engine.
A little "slip" here is not a bad thing. (Again, IMO)

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Old 01-15-2009, 06:35 PM   #41
rider33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fazer6
Some time in the '90s I think, but it gained a disk brake.
kick start and drum brakes, this is going to be fun, I'll just have to see if I can find a nice vintage TW-thanks.
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Old 01-15-2009, 07:52 PM   #42
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The kick start parts can be retrofitted to my 2008 TW200 for around $300. I hope to have the Indiana license plate by the end of January. The new set of off road rules and regulations in Arizona have kept it in the garage until I finish the paper work.

I think the bike is geared low (slow) enough in first gear to haul me around. Remember we are talking a 196cc motor that generates maybe 14 horsepower. Folks have burned up these engines thinking they were highway cruisers.

If I feel the need for speed, there are several bikes in my stable that can definitely get the wind blowing in my face.

It does what it was designed to do. Be a good trainer and "just for the fun of it bike".

YMMV
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Old 01-15-2009, 08:52 PM   #43
neepuk OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rider33
kick start and drum brakes, this is going to be fun, I'll just have to see if I can find a nice vintage TW-thanks.
The kick-start models also have electric start. And the drum brakes aren't THAT bad if you keep the bike at speeds it was designed for. These bike are a blast though. Good luck finding yours.

I just finish with a semi major service on my DR and it was kinda fun... I think I'm gonna tear my Black T-dub down and give it a good going-through. It's got over 11,000 miles and I really doubt that the privious owner took very good care of it. I know it needs steering tube bearings (on order) so I'll start in the back end... Pull the swing arm, lube needle bearings, shock rebuild (or replace), etc... I may even modify the air-box and see if I can't get this thing running a little stronger with a slightly bigger main jet.

Who's running what jetting? Is there a common mod for the stock exhaust? I don't want to make my bike loud at all.
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Old 01-17-2009, 10:05 AM   #44
Surfn54
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Good question Neepuk! Lets give this a Bump!
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Old 01-17-2009, 11:12 AM   #45
HenryJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neepuk
Who's running what jetting? Is there a common mod for the stock exhaust? I don't want to make my bike loud at all.
I have done quite a bit of research and the best I can tell is that each will need to do their own testing as different conditions will require different modifications. The consensus has been that the TW is lean from the factory. More damage is usually done lean , rather than rich. I would rather err to the rich side to sacrifice a little mileage and performance.

There are likely to be benefits in pilot screw adjustment , needle shims, drilling the air passage and re-jetting. Anything done to help them breathe will require enriching the fuel mixture.

No one seems to nail down the shims needed, but from what I see .030" to .050" may help mid-range performance. Drilling the air passage 3/32" to 7/32" offers better throttle response. Available jets #126 , #128 or #132 used to get the correct mixture for wide open throttle. Most US bikes with the late model carb got the #126 jet. CA models get the #128 and the rest of the world were equipped with #132. Once jetting is determined the pilot screw should be adjusted between 2-3 turns out for correct idle mixture.

The list of parts gathered for my 2006 model TW200:
Shims from as little as .026" to as much as .078".
Two jet sizes bigger (#128 and #132) for the US bikes with the #126 main.
3/32" drill bit

These are easy to find low dollar parts that can be purchased for under $20. Washers from the hardware store and jets from the boat shop. Easy to carry if needed. Swap if you travel from 10k feet to sea level.

What modifications did I make?
I drilled the air hole to 3/32". That was just a slight increase in size for better throttle response.
I added .046 steel washer shims under the needle for the mid range. It took two to make that thickness. The 3mm holes are slightly too large. The standard # hole sizes fit better.
Stock mine has the #126 main jet. I installed the #128. I am at 2200 ft and the air here can get pretty bad. Mile high adjusted altitude is not unusual. I have the #132 if I need to go richer.

How well does it all work?
No road test yet. It fires up good and the no load throttle seems to be better. It does not seem to stumble as bad cold as it did before.
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