ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-23-2012, 07:36 AM   #766
Zapp22
ZAPP - Tejas
 
Zapp22's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Tejas Hill Country
Oddometer: 13,632
How many of the "new gears" are in service at present? what is the failure rate on "new gears"? How many cumulative miles are on the "new gears"? What was the MTBF target by the designers for the "new gears"? Indeed, what exactly was the goal of the "new gears" design and what science was used to model-to the goal?

if the DR community really wanted a fix to this it can be gotten. it takes a few letters from elected representatives, directed to the NTSA and worded clearly and emphatically. I think we have neither the numbers nor the political will to effect such an event, but having been through the process in a past lifetime, it can be done. it can be done in such a way that Suzi's best $$ move would be to get on the stick and offer a replacement.
An ordinary breakdown is not worthy of such an effort. an unpredictable breakdown that locks up the rear tire at highway speed in traffic is worthy of such an effort if the stats make it provocative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucifer View Post
But as others have said, it is a known issue that can be remedied BEFORE a catastrophic failure. Not so with this 3rd gear thing.

I really hope these new gears are the answer. I really like the DR650 and if I hadn't already sold mine, I'd have purchased a set.
__________________
Zapp
"I will not let the White City fall... nor our people fail. - Aragorn
K4 WEESTROM Stealthfighter Black -SOLD - Invisible to Radar, '02 DR650SE SOLD ,'Ole 97' DR650SE My Fave K5 WEESTROM ADVbomber
Zapp22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 07:37 AM   #767
Foot dragger
singletracker
 
Foot dragger's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: chico,just below rag dump(nor-cal)
Oddometer: 12,635
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRjoe View Post
I'm failing to understand what people's problem with this thread is.

It's (or it was) a thread about a problem that some drs have and some possible causes and cures.

I personally probably won't trust my dr in really remote places but I don't expect other people to be concerned about there dr's
It's up to individuals to decide if they want to be concerned about there bike or not.
Really,the only issue I take with this thread is the guys who have had some sort of engine/trans problem with a DR REALLY want to impress upon others the fact they should never trust their DR farther then they can carry it.
Guys who maybe have a DR as their first bike read all this and figure their DR will explode sooner then later.They dont know any better.
Its the internet,if you keep repeating something over and over it becomes fact,for some.
Mostly just crying wolf over and over,99% of DR's dont have a catastrophic failure,but if you condense all that do into 1 easily read thread then it looks pretty bad.

If I didnt trust one of my bikes in really remote places,I would sell it,anything can break on any bike at any time.
Staying home is the alternative.
__________________
Some bikes around at times
Foot dragger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 07:39 AM   #768
Zapp22
ZAPP - Tejas
 
Zapp22's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Tejas Hill Country
Oddometer: 13,632
650L also. I had the manager of a honda svc dept [dealer] tell me bluntly that the 650L lump was not fit to be run a lot on the road....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
Honda XR 600s have blown third when run hard since their inception,I dont think Honda ever address'd it. 4 DRs out of how many out there? hard to call it a trend but maybe more will chime in.
__________________
Zapp
"I will not let the White City fall... nor our people fail. - Aragorn
K4 WEESTROM Stealthfighter Black -SOLD - Invisible to Radar, '02 DR650SE SOLD ,'Ole 97' DR650SE My Fave K5 WEESTROM ADVbomber
Zapp22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 07:42 AM   #769
Foot dragger
singletracker
 
Foot dragger's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: chico,just below rag dump(nor-cal)
Oddometer: 12,635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapp22 View Post
How many of the "new gears" are in service at present? what is the failure rate on "new gears"? How many cumulative miles are on the "new gears"? What was the MTBF target by the designers for the "new gears"? Indeed, what exactly was the goal of the "new gears" design and what science was used to model-to the goal?

if the DR community really wanted a fix to this it can be gotten. it takes a few letters from elected representatives, directed to the NTSA and worded clearly and emphatically. I think we have neither the numbers nor the political will to effect such an event, but having been through the process in a past lifetime, it can be done. it can be done in such a way that Suzi's best $$ move would be to get on the stick and offer a replacement.
An ordinary breakdown is not worthy of such an effort. an unpredictable breakdown that locks up the rear tire at highway speed in traffic is worthy of such an effort if the stats make it provocative.
My theory is to just ride the thing,mine makes no noises it didnt make when new,its good to go. Ive hammered it like a big squarehead nail on offroad rides and it takes no notice,just a big dumb bike that doesnt want to quit.
__________________
Some bikes around at times
Foot dragger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 07:48 AM   #770
Foot dragger
singletracker
 
Foot dragger's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: chico,just below rag dump(nor-cal)
Oddometer: 12,635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapp22 View Post
650L also. I had the manager of a honda svc dept [dealer] tell me bluntly that the 650L lump was not fit to be run a lot on the road....
Yah,the 650L's get hot when run hard on the road,Ive seen one in person where the valve seats came out of the head and things get all chewed up inside,heard of many others,its an old school design with only air cooling,Honda still sells them,most guys never run em hard enough to have a problem.
My DR with the air/oil cooling and the oil jets spraying the underside of the piston has never so much as pinged in hot weather. I should run premium when its hot out but rarely remember to do so.
Ive run it from Death Valley to Chico at 75/80 mph fully loaded (630 miles) only stopped for gas and food.
50 mpg all the way and smooth enough to be no problem. I just dont worry about the thing.
__________________
Some bikes around at times
Foot dragger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 11:46 AM   #771
Adv Grifter
on the road o'dreams
 
Adv Grifter's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
Oddometer: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferritt View Post
How many miles have fellow owners covered with a whining 3rd gear
Quite a few whining 3rd gear DR650 still on the road and whining away!
Mine started whining at about 20,000 miles, now at 48,000 miles, NO ISSUES.

Is whining a sign of impending DOOM? I doubt it, ride on.
I would use GOOD oil and change it at reasonable intervals.
Suerte!
Adv Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 12:07 PM   #772
GSF1200S
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Oddometer: 975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapp22 View Post
How many of the "new gears" are in service at present? what is the failure rate on "new gears"? How many cumulative miles are on the "new gears"? What was the MTBF target by the designers for the "new gears"? Indeed, what exactly was the goal of the "new gears" design and what science was used to model-to the goal?

if the DR community really wanted a fix to this it can be gotten. it takes a few letters from elected representatives, directed to the NTSA and worded clearly and emphatically. I think we have neither the numbers nor the political will to effect such an event, but having been through the process in a past lifetime, it can be done. it can be done in such a way that Suzi's best $$ move would be to get on the stick and offer a replacement.
An ordinary breakdown is not worthy of such an effort. an unpredictable breakdown that locks up the rear tire at highway speed in traffic is worthy of such an effort if the stats make it provocative.
+1

I think weve beat to death the fact that it is rare. But a problem that can lock up the rear wheel, that has enough occurrences to be more than a fluke, and can KILL someone is just not something to brush off the shoulder as "nothing." While it probably hasnt happened, considering the majority of DR650s are run outside this forum, it is entirely possible that this issue which has REPEATEDLY happened could have already killed someone. All because they cant do what Nova Racing has already done as it costs too much.

I am aware noone with a DR650 wants to hear this, thinks im stupid and ridiculous, etc. So, ill stop posting in here. FWIW, im probably taking a DR650 to Alaska anyways
GSF1200S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 12:25 PM   #773
Adv Grifter
on the road o'dreams
 
Adv Grifter's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
Oddometer: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSF1200S View Post
Then why have they not remedied the situation? If it is a poor supplier, then upon finding out about the problem, they would have immediately been on that suppliers ass to either fix the problem or they would have found a different supplier. If a small company (small-ish anyways) like Nova Racing can fabricate a billet third gear and sell it for a few hundred dollars, Suzuki itself has five times that capacity.
According to Mel Harris, CEO, American Suzuki : "Suzuki have too much on their plate." This response given (face to face, in person) in 2007 when Suzuki was still in Moto GP and the Burgman Scooter was BIG on their agenda. American Suzuki insiders claimed it to be the 2nd coming!
(I tried to tell them! )
Seems they forgot about the dozens of cheap Chinese scooters flooding the market ... and selling like hotcakes at 80% less than their beloved Burgman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSF1200S View Post
Wow man- you really demand quite a bit for someone to have an opinion! I entirely understand the manner in which the Japanese are driven by honor and the pride they put into what they do. I have been to Japan. I have not visited factories or CEOs, and I am not an expert on Japanese culture, but if they were so committed it would have been RESOLVED by now. They would have changed suppliers, redesigned the gear or forks, etc. For that matter, they could have simply modified the manufacturing process to use loctite on the NSU screws and primary bolt, but they are too cheap for that too. The Japanese do have a lot of honor and have pride in what they do, but a corporation pledges allegiance to profit- NOT to morals.
All good and fair points. I'm not a Japanese expert, but I worked for one!
But back to reality for a minute: To Suzuki, the DR650 is NOT their most important product. There is no "team" following this model. When Mel Harris was informed of the issues, he responded (see above). Then followed with the comment : "DR650 sales have doubled and are consistently higher than they've EVER BEEN.". I responded saying then that's all the more reason to fix the issues! Silence. (He IS the CEO, and one doesn't get too snippy with the guy)

Still, its a danger .... and the idea proposed of opening a case at NHTSA is not a bad one. Once Federal pressure is applied and a RECALL issued, we would have a fix ... and a recall for all existing bikes to get a FREE upgrade as well. Get a petition going! I'll sign it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSF1200S View Post
I do not agree pertaining to honor, though I do to a certain extent with reputation. If the DR had a reputation as an unreliable POS, noone would buy them and that would hurt Suzuki's bottom line- so yes, they care about reputation. Honor? It would be honorable for them to invest 50 cents to ENSURE that the NSU screws wouldnt come out, and it would be honorable for them to at least redesign the transmission where this issue doesnt occur. At least TRY to fix the problem- billet third gear, stronger forks, etc..
Once again, good and reasonable requests. These issues on the DR seem to have slipped through the cracks.
I have some idea how corporations work.
I believe there may be some internal corporate cultural wrangling going on at Suzuki (as well as many other companies). Some propose profit and dominance, even risking everything to get there. Others are more moderate and feel they have to clean up dirty loose ends as they go and feel more obligation to stay with a product even through its later years.
Which way they go is the question.

But sometimes even law suits won't solve the problem. BMW was sued in Germany regards the F650 forks breaking off. They lost and paid out to the Plaintiff. BUT no recall was issued, far as I know. I believe the NHTSA has a case on this in the USA, but no recall. And guess what? A new G650 (new model) broke its forks off recently. Same Showa forks! Anyone can tell just by looking that the forks are under spec'd for the weight/size of the bike.
Adv Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 01:40 PM   #774
ferritt
n00b
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Location: west yorks, uk
Oddometer: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Quite a few whining 3rd gear DR650 still on the road and whining away!
Mine started whining at about 20,000 miles, now at 48,000 miles, NO ISSUES.

Is whining a sign of impending DOOM? I doubt it, ride on.
I would use GOOD oil and change it at reasonable intervals.
Suerte!

Thankyou for taking the time to reply, that certainly puts my mind a bit more at ease.
ferritt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 04:09 PM   #775
wiggywildwildwest
cranky bugger
 
wiggywildwildwest's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Blackwater, QLD, Australia.
Oddometer: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRjoe View Post
Stop putting used falcoon oil in it when you do oil changes and also try using the clutch when you change gear Mr Cox
hey ! i use the clutch. it just crunches into 2nd every time. the rest of the gears go in fine. i'll check the shifter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
If the shift lever is loose,or got a little bent at some point,it can rub slightly on the countershaft cover or one of its bolts,lever flexes when being used to shift and rubs enough to affect shifting.
Gots to have clearance.
thanks for your input. i'll have a look.
__________________
Where you come from is gone. Where you thought you were going, Was never there. Where you are, Ain't no good unless you can get away from it.
wiggywildwildwest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 07:50 PM   #776
NordieBoy OP
Armature speller
 
NordieBoy's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Kiwiland
Oddometer: 7,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapp22 View Post
How many of the "new gears" are in service at present?
Not many.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapp22 View Post
what is the failure rate on "new gears"?
0%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapp22 View Post
How many cumulative miles are on the "new gears"?
Not many.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapp22 View Post
What was the MTBF target by the designers for the "new gears"?
"X"

What's Suzukis MTBF on their 3rd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapp22 View Post
Indeed, what exactly was the goal of the "new gears" design and what science was used to model-to the goal?
Billet gear vs sintered.
Stronger in the tooth valley to key on inside dia area.
NordieBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 07:52 PM   #777
NordieBoy OP
Armature speller
 
NordieBoy's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Kiwiland
Oddometer: 7,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferritt View Post
How many miles have fellow owners covered with a whining 3rd gear
86,000km so far...
NordieBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 09:38 PM   #778
Adv Grifter
on the road o'dreams
 
Adv Grifter's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
Oddometer: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapp22 View Post
How many of the "new gears" are in service at present? what is the failure rate on "new gears"? How many cumulative miles are on the "new gears"? What was the MTBF target by the designers for the "new gears"? Indeed, what exactly was the goal of the "new gears" design and what science was used to model-to the goal?
I haven't heard of anyone here or on other forums using the new Nova gear set. One interesting thing on this came from the guy at Nova in the UK. Upon examination of the stock Suzuki 3rd gear he found NO FAULTS with it in either design or materials. I'm pretty sure the Nova guys have seen a few gears and other high stress parts ... probably would spot an obvious flaw.

Somewhere here or on another 3rd gear thread are quoted the comments from the Nova guy, if you care to dig them up.

Fact remains, some gear boxes do break ... but I think we are a ways from knowing exactly the cause.
Adv Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 10:25 PM   #779
NordieBoy OP
Armature speller
 
NordieBoy's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Kiwiland
Oddometer: 7,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
I haven't heard of anyone here or on other forums using the new Nova gear set. One interesting thing on this came from the guy at Nova in the UK. Upon examination of the stock Suzuki 3rd gear he found NO FAULTS with it in either design or materials. I'm pretty sure the Nova guys have seen a few gears and other high stress parts ... probably would spot an obvious flaw.

Somewhere here or on another 3rd gear thread are quoted the comments from the Nova guy, if you care to dig them up.

Fact remains, some gear boxes do break ... but I think we are a ways from knowing exactly the cause.
Did they see a broken gear too?
NordieBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 12:01 AM   #780
wiggywildwildwest
cranky bugger
 
wiggywildwildwest's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Blackwater, QLD, Australia.
Oddometer: 709
so the shifter is ok. looks like it's time to split the cases. goddammit.
__________________
Where you come from is gone. Where you thought you were going, Was never there. Where you are, Ain't no good unless you can get away from it.
wiggywildwildwest is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 10:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014