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Old 02-01-2009, 10:22 AM   #76
Trailryder42
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Whoa, I better check that out pronto. I've been using 6153 to convert the TAT maps to tracks. Haven't tried yet uploading anything done in 6153 to the unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziptie
I cannot create and download a route using 6.15.3 to my 2730 GPS.
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Old 02-01-2009, 10:38 AM   #77
markjenn
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FWIIW, I've transferred several 6.15.3-generated routes to my 60Cx and navigated without problem. The distances match up perfectly, but the travel times vary between the GPS and MS.

(As an example, MS predicts a 17% longer travel time for one of my 210-mile routes. I don't recall a place in my 60Cx to enter average speeds for various kinds of roads like MS provides, so perhaps the time discrepancy is just the difference in GPS hard-coded vs. MS variable speeds. I have never payed much attention to travel times anyway.)

YMMV.

- Mark

markjenn screwed with this post 02-01-2009 at 01:51 PM
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Old 02-01-2009, 12:33 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn
(As an example, MS predicts a 17% longer travel time for one of my 210-mph routes. I don't recall a place in my 60Cx to enter average speeds for various kinds of roads like MS provides, so perhaps the time discrepancy is just the difference in GPS hard-coded vs. MS variable speeds. I have never payed much attention to travel times anyway.)

YMMV.

- Mark
Damn, 210 mph routes?

I agree with you, there's nowhere to enter speeds on the 60Cx so that value must be fixed or something. As long as distance is the same you should be OK. I know you are an old pro at 60Cx routing though

My computer is O-L-D so I'm just gonna stick with 6.13.7 for the forseeable future, I didn't even try 6.14.1
I haven't found a burning need to update my City Select v7 maps either.
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Old 02-01-2009, 01:51 PM   #79
markjenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdsp
Damn, 210 mph routes?
Yeah, gotta exercise that turbo Busa daily. Sorry... corrected.

- Mark
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Old 02-01-2009, 02:22 PM   #80
markjenn
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Did some googling and came across this site where someone estimated the assumed hard-wired average speeds for travel times in the 60CS and 60CSx.

From:

http://www.patrick-roeder.de/reviews...smap_60CSx.htm

Road type indicated by speed - Speed 60CSx - Speed 60CS
30 Km/h 35.0 Km/h 32.2 Km/h
50 Km/h 52.0 Km/h 48.3 Km/h
80 Km/h 75.7 Km/h 86.9 Km/h
100 Km/h 101.0 Km/h 103.0 Km/h
110 Km/h 109.0 Km/h 113.0 Km/h
more than 110 Km/h 118.0 Km/h 129.0 Km/h

Mapsource 6.15.3 has the following in the routing preferences... I don't see a default button, so I'm not sure if these are defaults, but I've never fooled with them so I would think they are:

Residential 25 mph (40 Km/h)
Collector roads 35 mph (56 Km/h)
Other highways 45 mph (73 Km/h)
Major highways 58 mph (94 Km/h)
Interstate 67 mph (108 Km/h)

It would appear that MS generally assumes slower driving times than the GPS consistent with the discrepancies I'm noting. Perhaps the fancier models of Garmin GPS's have a place to enter the stuff so you can sync up between MS and the GPS exactly.

I have no big expectation that the travel time predictions should be rigorously consistent between MS and the GPS, but I do think the routing and route lengths should match, and at least on my setup, they generally do. But over the years, I've learned to always try and keep routing preferences sync'd between MS and the GPS, to throw in a few intermediate via points even when they're not absolutely needed, and to always "walk" a GPS auto-route after transfer and confirm that it goes to basically the same places. On a few occasions I've had to add a via point to get things the same.

Tangentially, I was riding the 210-mph.... ah 210-mile route I mentioned earlier a couple weeks ago and had my 60Cx really screw up. We left the route to go into a town that was about 5 miles off the route to refuel. Afterwards, I knew that I had entered several via points adjacent to the town and leading away on backroads, so instead of backtracking to rejoin the route, I figured I'd recalc the route and have it rejoin a nearby via point by the most efficient route. Well, the GPS suddenly decided to ignore some/most/maybe-all of the via points in my route and simply to route me onto the major highways to my destination. I didn't have time to really inspect the recalc'ed route, but it had certainly decided to ignore at least 10 or 15 via points on backroads and route me on a parallel route for 75 miles or so on the main highway. We took a detour of ten miles before I realized the error. We turned around, backtracked to manually join the route and the GPS was happy again and followed my via points correctly.

Others have mentioned very odd behavior on recalcs but this is the first time that it has overtly bit me. I'm beginning to think that you never really be sure how a 60-series (and maybe other Garmin GPSs) will route you back onto a route after recalcs - most of the time it appears to do the right thing, but not consistently. I wonder if there is something in the firmware that makes an arbitrary decision that once you're off the route by a certain distance (e.g., five miles?), then it just assumes you want to go directly to your final destination.

This stuff still has a ton of gotchas. I still travel with paper maps.

- Mark
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Old 02-02-2009, 05:43 AM   #81
Yellow Pig
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All is well now that I'm back to Map Source 6.13.7

When I upgraded to 6.15.3 MS operated very slowly, would not show any detail when zoomed in and often locked up and crashed.

I uninstalled all of Mapsource and affiliated software and did a fresh install of 6.13.7. Works Great.
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Old 02-02-2009, 07:02 AM   #82
tbirdsp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn
Tangentially, I was riding the 210-mph.... ah 210-mile route I mentioned earlier a couple weeks ago and had my 60Cx really screw up. We left the route to go into a town that was about 5 miles off the route to refuel. Afterwards, I knew that I had entered several via points adjacent to the town and leading away on backroads, so instead of backtracking to rejoin the route, I figured I'd recalc the route and have it rejoin a nearby via point by the most efficient route. Well, the GPS suddenly decided to ignore some/most/maybe-all of the via points in my route and simply to route me onto the major highways to my destination. I didn't have time to really inspect the recalc'ed route, but it had certainly decided to ignore at least 10 or 15 via points on backroads and route me on a parallel route for 75 miles or so on the main highway. We took a detour of ten miles before I realized the error. We turned around, backtracked to manually join the route and the GPS was happy again and followed my via points correctly.

Others have mentioned very odd behavior on recalcs but this is the first time that it has overtly bit me. I'm beginning to think that you never really be sure how a 60-series (and maybe other Garmin GPSs) will route you back onto a route after recalcs - most of the time it appears to do the right thing, but not consistently. I wonder if there is something in the firmware that makes an arbitrary decision that once you're off the route by a certain distance (e.g., five miles?), then it just assumes you want to go directly to your final destination.

This stuff still has a ton of gotchas. I still travel with paper maps.

- Mark
Weird. I thought we had mostly disproved the 60Cx "direct to destination" recalcs in my thread from last year. I certainly don't doubt your results though.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=407634
I still try to avoid stopping navigation when I am following a pre-planned route and just use the map screen to get back to my route line if I go off.

On the driving speeds in Mapsource:
In 6.13.7 at least, there's a "reset" button at the top of the page which resets the defaults (I think). I have the same speeds you noted above.
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Old 02-02-2009, 10:41 AM   #83
markjenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdsp
Weird. I thought we had mostly disproved the 60Cx "direct to destination" recalcs in my thread from last year. I certainly don't doubt your results though.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=407634
I still try to avoid stopping navigation when I am following a pre-planned route and just use the map screen to get back to my route line if I go off.
Yes, I participated in this thread and mostly said mine appeared to be doing what I thought it should be doing - resuming a route after recalc at the closest via point. But this latest experience ran totally counter to this. I'm coming around to the idea that it is unpredictable what it does as we've got folks saying all possible recalc outcomes: 1) routing you back to the start point; 2) routing you to some arbitary intermediate via point; and 3) routing you directly to your destination. Now that I think about it, AFTER I realized it was doing a direct to destination routing and we stopped, I had it do a recalc again, and then it tried to route me back to my starting point. So I had (3) followed by (1) while I was expecting (2).

Quote:
On the driving speeds in Mapsource:
In 6.13.7 at least, there's a "reset" button at the top of the page which resets the defaults (I think). I have the same speeds you noted above.
6.15.3 is the same. I thought the reset button might just "apply" the values you've entered, but I just confirmed that it goes back to the default values.

- Mark
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Old 02-09-2009, 11:53 AM   #84
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Update - Cannot download a route from Mapsource 6.15.3

I just spoke to the Software Team at Garmin to discuss the issue of not being able to download a route into the GPS or into a .gpx file from Mapsource 6.15.3. The Garmin team can easily re-create the issue and it is a problem. Whenever you create a route in 6.15.3 and attempt a download into the GPS or to save it as a .gpx file, the downloaded route or saved .gpx file becomes corrupted.

Garmin had no estimated time for when a fix will be available, but they're working on it. Guess the only solution at this point is to fallback to an earlier upgrade or keep an eye on the Garmin site for a fix.
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Old 02-09-2009, 12:10 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziptie
I just spoke to the Software Team at Garmin to discuss the issue of not being able to download a route into the GPS or into a .gpx file from Mapsource 6.15.3. The Garmin team can easily re-create the issue and it is a problem. Whenever you create a route in 6.15.3 and attempt a download into the GPS or to save it as a .gpx file, the downloaded route or saved .gpx file becomes corrupted.

Garmin had no estimated time for when a fix will be available, but they're working on it. Guess the only solution at this point is to fallback to an earlier upgrade or keep an eye on the Garmin site for a fix.
You're right. I created a simple 126 mile route, save it as .gpx, quit Mapsource, reopen the file and it's suddenly a 1,300 mile route

Interestingly, doing a "recalculate" on the route fixed it in the app.
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Old 02-09-2009, 12:32 PM   #86
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This doesn't say much for their QA process... methinks they need more resources :(
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Old 02-09-2009, 01:28 PM   #87
markjenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziptie
Whenever you create a route in 6.15.3 and attempt a download into the GPS or to save it as a .gpx file, the downloaded route or saved .gpx file becomes corrupted.
I can't speak to every GPS of course, but I've downloaded several routes from my 6.15.3 to my 60Cx and they work/run fine. Mileage correct too. YMMV.

- Mark
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Old 02-09-2009, 03:39 PM   #88
Frank Warner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdsp
I agree with you, there's nowhere to enter speeds on the 60Cx so that value must be fixed or something.
I'd think the GPS is using the map data to estimate the time .. the map data roads, highways etc each have an individual speed .. they can even have a segment at one speed (say going through a town) and the next segment can be a different speed (say out in the country side) .. all contained in the map set data ...
Each road highway has its own speed .. they can be the same or different ...
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Old 02-09-2009, 03:59 PM   #89
rjudge
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When did the map colors change?

Sorry, this may be a little off topic, but, when did the road colors change to all shades of yellow? Now I can hardly see the roads. I used to be able to tell the difference between an interstate and state hwys at a glance. Now they all look the same. Was this in a version change or is my Mapsource honked up?

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Old 02-09-2009, 05:26 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjudge
Sorry, this may be a little off topic, but, when did the road colors change to all shades of yellow? Now I can hardly see the roads. I used to be able to tell the difference between an interstate and state hwys at a glance. Now they all look the same. Was this in a version change or is my Mapsource honked up?

Rick
It's the newest MapSource "feature". It appeared in 6.14 and stuck. I agree, it sucks.
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