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Old 12-11-2009, 12:59 PM   #241
momphrare
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WetSideRider
If I am reading this correctly, you are fiddling with the Timing Chain adjustment, not the timing.

Timing is adjusted by removing the points cover (on the left hand side of the head, labelled "125") and loosening the two phillips screws that hold the timing plate. Timing is changed by rotating the points plate.

To do the job spot on, you need a timing light. There is a cover on the left crankcase, which exposes the flywheel when removed. The flywheel will have a couple of marks on it for timing, T for top dead center and F for the advanced point before TDC when the sparkplug should fire. On the XL125, the points should just start to open, or the timing light flash as the spot marked "F" passes a mark on the bottom of the opening. This assumes the bike will hold an idle while you adjust the plate appropriately.

You can guesstimate the timing by watching the points cam while manually turning the crank (open the bigger slotted cover to expose a bolt, 14MM on the TL, that you can use to turn the crank). The points should just start to open when the "F" shows up on the flywheel.

Of course a picture is worth a thousand words, but I don't own an XL, so I could only give you pictures of a TL, which is bit different beast.
So if i'm getting this straight now, I need to remove the XL Cover on the left case and I can adjust the timing from there by turning the crank while the "engine is running" to guesstimate its accuracy? Attached is a image of what I think your talking about for a little more details just use the numbers of the image.



Thank you for all your help guys. Really clueless on the internals of bikes. Only delt with Carbs, Brakes and Tires so far in my 3 years on bikes.

p.s. sorry if i'm starting to take over the thread just let me know if you want me to create my own.
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Old 12-11-2009, 01:12 PM   #242
WetSideRider
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Yup. Part number three is the cover that needs to be removed. Part number five is the one that will have the "F" scribed on it. The engine should not be running when you attempt to guesstimate timing. Bolt number 19 should be the one you turn, counterclockwise, to manually turn the engine.

You see the cover on the head that you remove to get at the points, right? When you turn the engine manually with the points cover off, you should see the little cam turn in the center of the points cover. That cam should be opening the points at it's high point. The high point on my bike has a line marked on the cam.
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Old 12-11-2009, 01:24 PM   #243
momphrare
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WetSideRider
Yup. Part number three is the cover that needs to be removed. Part number five is the one that will have the "F" scribed on it. The engine should not be running when you attempt to guesstimate timing. Bolt number 19 should be the one you turn, counterclockwise, to manually turn the engine.

You see the cover on the head that you remove to get at the points, right? When you turn the engine manually with the points cover off, you should see the little cam turn in the center of the points cover. That cam should be opening the points at it's high point. The high point on my bike has a line marked on the cam.
Awesome Thanks a bunch I'll rip in to her tomorrow see if I can't figure it out. Probably take a few photos just for the Forum incase anyone else is having this issue. I do know I had a hell of a time removing the 17 bolts when I cleaned and lubed the chain so well see how lucky I am on the case bolts.. Cross your fingers!
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Old 12-14-2009, 12:38 PM   #244
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Ok, I took the Honda Cover off and I can see the "F" but I don't see how to adjust it? That wheel will just keep spinning with the crank. I tried to get the larger cover off but that top right screw is not moving and I can't get vise grips on it do to the incurve of the cover. The other two won't be a problem but Not sure how I'm going to get that one out if I have to take that cover off.




I see the 14mm bolt you were talking about but like I said it just keeps spinning.
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:02 PM   #245
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You've got the right cover off. At the bottom of the opening, just right of center, there's a little dohicky on the inside of the opening. That is your timing reference mark. The F needs to be aligned with that mark when the points fire.

Envision your motor running. As the flywheel turns counterclockwise the piston is moving up and down. On the intake stroke (as the piston goes down), it pulls in fuel and air for the next power explosion. on the compression stroke, the piston moves up, compressing the mixture in readiness for the plug to fire. The plug should fire at the F mark, which is just prior to top dead center on the compression stroke. Hopefully you follow me so far, this is key and I may be sounding like your first grade teacher.

You need to expose your points to continue. The points cover is on your cylinder head, just above the flywheel cover you just removed and marked with "125" in big print. Usually it is held on with two phillips screws.

Pull that and you expose the points, which look like the attached picture. The eccentric points cam in the center of that picture, with the 10mm bolt in the middle is attached to your camshaft. as the engine turns, the points cam turns. Notice as you turn the engine that the points open and close. The points are the two button like items attached to the end of the spring loaded arm.

The points should just begin to open as your flywheel aligns the F with the pointer on the housing. If they don't, then you loosen the two phillips that hold the plate assembly that the points are attached to, and rotate the whole plate until the points just start to open at that point. This should put you in the correct neighborhood for timng.

If you want to fiddle with the timing after the engine is running, you can leave the points cover plate off and loosen the two phillips so that you can slightly move the plate, and judge the effects of that movement on the idle speed or stability.

The most accurate way to set the points at this point is to use a timing light, which flashs each time the points open, creating a strobe effect that lights up the flywheel at the exact moment that the points fire, then you can use that light to align the F mark precisely.

This is pretty tough to describe on the net, and if you have a buddy who knows how to do timing, get a demonstration and all this will be crystal clear in a heartbeat.

Hopefully this helps a bit more, though. Have fun.
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:04 PM   #246
WetSideRider
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Another Picture

Here's the points cover installed.

You should probably buy the manual if you are going to keep the bike, too. It'll make all this much easier, and has tons of other reference information you'll need.
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Old 12-14-2009, 05:59 PM   #247
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You're getting closer...

OK, so maybe I can help here. In part # 1 at about 6 o clock you will see a little tab. The goal is to line up the F as others have said just as the points open.

I addition to what you have done, remove the points cover - that is on the left at the top of the cylinder. Spin the engine around a few times and watch them open and close. Your goal is to have them start to open just as the F lines up.

This is what I do, it will get you close. Get a small strip of paper and spin the motor to open the points. Slide the paper in between them then apply gentle pressure pulling it out. Continue pulling and rotate the engine until the paper is released - this should be exactly at the F.

To adjust the points loosen two screws which ride in slots - they hold the entire points assembly. Then rotate the points plate until you get the paper to release at the F.

Good luck.

KP
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Old 12-15-2009, 09:16 PM   #248
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...and to get that top right screw out (if you ever need to).....

http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-30200-Im...936748&sr=1-20

....a little PB B'laster and a good whack or two; done.
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:54 AM   #249
sturleyau
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As with ALL japanese bikes and maybe others for that matter. The steel screws/bolts used in the alloy components tend to "grow" together due to electrolysis caused by the difference in metals.
Some cross slotted head devices are Phillips head and most are Posi Drive.
Phillips type screws have tapered blades to the screwdriver head and Posi Drive have parallel blades. If you use a Phillips in a Posi Drive they generally strip the slot. All Posi Drive slotted screws generally have a Dot impressed in the head to identify them.
There are also different sizes for different applications.
To remove any of the above, use the correctly slotted blade screwdriver and MOST importantly toe break the growth use an impact driver.
Impact drivers are a device that turns as it is hit with a hammer.

I hope this is of some use to you.

Regards
Glenn
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Old 12-16-2009, 09:59 AM   #250
WetSideRider
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Thanks, learn something every day. Thirty plus years of bunging up "phillips" heads on old bikes and now I find out they aren't what I thought they were. Since my old iron is for riding, not looking at, that one that appears stripped is really a slotted head replaced with a hex out of my tool box. I didn't have two at the time I needed them

I probably had somebody 'splain the paper in the points to me before, too, but it went with the Alzheimer's early onset. Easy, squeezy.

Thanks, guys.
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Old 12-18-2009, 03:33 PM   #251
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Laugh

Thanks for all the Info everyone I really appreciate it. I have not had a chance to dig into it yet my weekend was full last week.

Going to see if I can’t get her running properly tomorrow.
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Old 12-21-2009, 06:05 PM   #252
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Question

Ok I adjusted the Timing Manually, the paper trick helped out a great deal. Had the bike running better then it ever has. Still had a little bit of throttle lag after taking it for a spin to get some gas. Put about 20 miles on it then put some Seafoam in the carb and the tank. Not sure If I messed with something but after doing that it start to run very similar to the way it did before even after letting the Seafoam do its job and no more white smoke was coming out. I checked the timing and it hadn’t moved at all. Bike was really hard to start with the kick start if at all. Was jump starting it after adjusting the timing a very small amount one way then the other. It would turn over with the jump start, but nothing made it run any better like it was and I ran out of sunlight so I put it away…

I was thinking that it was possibly getting flooded cause after it would sit for awhile it seemed to want to turn over on the first kick and then nothing after that but when I pulled the plug it seemed fine. The spark plug, air filter, battery are all new just f.y.i.

Any Thoughts?
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Old 12-22-2009, 02:05 AM   #253
sturleyau
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Momphrere, I have noticed in replies that no one advised you to adjust the point gap before you timed the engine to the "F" mark.
It is vital that the point gao is adjusted first to approximately 15 thousandths of an inch. Someone may have the specs for your bike for that.
When adjusting the points you have to have the gap at the correct measurement when the point rotor lobe is at it's highest. Then and only then do you adjust the timing plate and point opening to the "F" mark. An ohm meter connected between the point lead (removed from the loom) and any ground (earth) point will then tell you exactly when the points open.
The way these magneto ignition devices work is by generating an AC voltage. If the timing is correct the points open at the "F" mark when the peak of the positive half of the AC waveform is reached. Thereby giving maximum voltage to the ignition coil. I have had my oscilloscope on the ignition with the motor running and it is exact.
As far as your fuel problem is concerned. Make certain the fuel bowl of the petcick is clean (that's the fuel tap). Clean the fuel bowl of the carby. Check that the idle air/fuel mixture screw it approximately 1 and 1/2 turns out. If this is lean (screwed in too far) it will cause lack of acceleration and maybe stalling when you attempt to take off.
I hope this is of some help.
Glenn
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Old 12-22-2009, 11:33 AM   #254
WetSideRider
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If it was running nicely before the gas treatment was put in, I'd suspect either a carb problem induced by the gas treatment or a fouled plug from the treatment. My little TL is pretty sensitive to rich mixture and seems to foul plugs pretty easily. I suspect the float bowl setting on mine is off a bit, causing a rich mixture, which is no problem when it's warm, but makes cold starting a bitch.

You might take the plug out and see if it is black. I can get mine started pretty easily if the plug is a bit fouled by just heating the plug up with a propane torch until the electrode is grey. This is a temporary fix, but it might get you going until you buy a new plug.
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Old 12-24-2009, 04:59 PM   #255
JeffS77
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heres my '82 XL500R on Santiago Peak aka Saddle Back here in Orange County...enjoy

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