The Honda XL (and other vintage singles) thread!

[bpeckm]

There are six volt bulbs available... try Classic Auto Bulbs: http://classicautobulbs.com/6volt.html

[Ernest T]

Originally Posted by epix1718

Howdy everyone, trying to help my neighbor out. He has a '75 Honda XL250 and is currently rewiring the bike but staying 6V. He needs to source some bulbs (turn signals, brake light). Anyone have a source to get them or maybe even know of any brighter bulbs that would work with his bike?

Scooter shops carry six volt bulbs cheap.

http://www.scooterworks.com/Bulbs-Tu...ther-C459.aspx

[skorpioskorpio]

You can order just about everything halogen for this bike from here:

http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/

Small base bulbs are BA9s and large base bulbs are BA15s. I am also in the process of converting the headlight to a more universal H4 halogen Cibie. currently I'm using a pretty hard to find 6V 35/35W bulb, but may rewind the stator on just the lighting coil to be able to use a 12V 60/55W bulb which are commonly available. This is all fairly involved. If you want to go more simple you can get one of the headlights that comes on the European and Asian versions of the bike which has a replacable bulb (Type P15D25.3):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-HEADLIGH...item5891cca5c3

This headlight also has a running light bulb that runs off the battery to keep the reflector lit if you kill the bike at an intersection, so you don't go dark.

You can get LED bulbs for the gauge lights and indicator lights from here:

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-b...A9S6_specs.htm

The 5 LED BA9s work well for turn signal and neutral indicator (use same color LED as the lens, so green for green, amber for amber) and the single LED wide angle whites work well for the gauge lamps. I've tried to convert turnsignals to LED and it didn't really work very well at all. Couldn't find winker relay that really worked even though some claimed to, was like a really dim strobe which you couldn't really see at all during the day. LED taillight is also a bust, you'd want to use an LED the same color as the lens which ends up making your plate red.

Also I've used a UB685 universal gel cell battery, it's a drop in replacement for the old vented style batteries these bikes use. No corrosion, will sit on a shelf charged and stay charged for a year, is actually higher output (8.4Ah vs 6Ah)...oh and they're cheaper than the "proper" battery, ships charged, no acid pack.

http://www.batterywholesale.com/batt...tml?prodID=121

And finally, you can get virtually every connector on the bike from one of these 2 sources:

http://easternbeaver.com/
http://www.vintageconnections.com/

I've replaced all the 3.5mm bullet connectors with 4mm bullets because the selection was better and they were better connectors, but that's just me. The only thing you really can't get from those 2 is vinyl booted right angle "flag" connectors and crimper die, but that is a whole other thing, I can find where I got them if you are interested.

[rpet]

LED tail/brake light available in 6v from superbrightleds.com.

everything else skorpio said is spot on.

I used the halogen 6Vs from Norbsa/Goffy for my turn signals (i dont have the stock signals though).

I bought that thai headlight from eBay but wish the bulb type could be found in a higher wattage... Norbsa/Goffy's is 25w. So, it's still sitting in the box.

[jas67]

Originally Posted by epix1718

Howdy everyone, trying to help my neighbor out. He has a '75 Honda XL250 and is currently rewiring the bike but staying 6V. He needs to source some bulbs (turn signals, brake light). Anyone have a source to get them or maybe even know of any brighter bulbs that would work with his bike?

http://www.superbrightleds.com

Go to "other" bulbs, and look for 6V BA15S and BA15D. Buy red for the tail/stop, amber for turn signals.

I put one of their bulbs in the tail light of my XL185S. Made a big difference.

Good luck getting the turn signals to work with your flasher though, and no one seems to make an LED compatible flasher for 6V.

[dorkpunch]

Has anyone tried putting a resistor in line with the signals? I put some led signals on my KTM. They wouldnt flash at first, but I just had to wire in a small resistor in line on each side, now they flash just fine.

[skorpioskorpio]

Originally Posted by rpet

LED tail/brake light available in 6v from superbrightleds.com.

everything else skorpio said is spot on.

I used the halogen 6Vs from Norbsa/Goffy for my turn signals (i dont have the stock signals though).

I bought that thai headlight from eBay but wish the bulb type could be found in a higher wattage... Norbsa/Goffy's is 25w. So, it's still sitting in the box.

Yea the problem is that the superbrightled doesn't have a red/white bicolor BA15 for a 6V taillight only for 12V so it'll illuminate your license plate in red. Made my original Cali plates look purple so I used a halogen instead.

[skorpioskorpio]

Originally Posted by dorkpunch

Has anyone tried putting a resistor in line with the signals? I put some led signals on my KTM. They wouldnt flash at first, but I just had to wire in a small resistor in line on each side, now they flash just fine.

One of the reasons to use LEDs is to lessen the power draw, if you put a resistor inline it'll draw the same as a tungston or halogen. When I tried them, new Stanley 23W OEM tungsten bulb on one side and Superbrightled amber on the other the OEM bulb was significantly brighter and had much better side visibility. Also I thought the arrayed LED looked kind of cheesey in the vintage lenses, just me I guess. I plan on putting 20W halogens from Goffy in them.

[skorpioskorpio]

Originally Posted by rpet

LED tail/brake light available in 6v from superbrightleds.com.

everything else skorpio said is spot on.

I used the halogen 6Vs from Norbsa/Goffy for my turn signals (i dont have the stock signals though).

I bought that thai headlight from eBay but wish the bulb type could be found in a higher wattage... Norbsa/Goffy's is 25w. So, it's still sitting in the box.

The 25/25W Goffy Halogen is noticably brighter than either the 35/35W sealed beam or the Euro-Asian 35/36W tri pin, if you put a 10W Goffy halogen BA9 in place of the city light in the Thai reflector it's brighter still. I went towards the Cibie reflector to get a more useful E-Code pattern and the hope that maybe I can up the headlight to a 60/55W 12V with just a lighting coil rewind and 12V regulator.

I've tried a 60/55W 6V in the Cibie reflector and it's a bust, there is just not enough current to get much more than a dim glow out of it with the stock stator. There is lots of room for more winds on the stock stator and Ricky Stator has a 12V AC regulator that can deal with lots of wattage (250 I think) so wiring a lighting coil for like 14V and as hot as will still clear the flywheel should be able to drive just about any 12V bulb. Then the problem becomes the switch and plastic headlight bucket melting down from the heat (I think 60/55W would be OK but a 90/130W would just melt things). I have an extra stator lying around to send off. Might have to put a relay in and figure out the taillight which I think would end up having one filiment using 12V and the other using the 6VDC circuit as a result but I don't think that is that big a deal, just move them to either both 6V or both 12V if that's the case.

When I really thought about it the only place that 6V is really a problem is for the headlight. Changing the whole bike to 12V means changing coil, regulator, rectifier, trying to figure out how to stuff a 12V battery in a 6V box, increase chance of points arcing. All the DC lighting can be as bright at 6V as it would be at 12V, and with the higher output 6V sealed lead acid gel battery the current on the 6V isn't that big a problem.

Anyway, my XL electrical brain dump.

[rpet]

Thanks skorpio. I guess I will proceed with the Thai reflector/goffy halogen combo.

Which Cibie reflector are you using, and is it drop in?

[pommie john]

Can anyone tell me the rear wheel rim offset for a '72 XL250?
Thanks
John

[skorpioskorpio]

Originally Posted by rpet

Thanks skorpio. I guess I will proceed with the Thai reflector/goffy halogen combo.

Which Cibie reflector are you using, and is it drop in?

This one, Cibie 5.75-HCRA:


It's the 5.75 housing with city light, so it basically has the same functionality as the Thai light with the aux bulb. It's not a drop in, the stock light is very non standard, equivelent to about a 5.50" or so. However, what I did was to buy another Thai reflector (well actually 2, it's all in pairs with me) and enlarge the opening in the ring with a hand nibbler like they sell at (or used to, I don't know) Radio Shack. Had to go around with the nibbler 4 times I think. You could just put it in as is I suppose but the outside of the crown will not protrude through the ring. What I did was seal it to the rim with high temp silicone, first with a bead around the ring then drop in the reflector and fill the gap between the ring and the back of the reflector. The way I figure it that's the way the lens is attached to the reflector, and you won't see it on the back anyway. I filled the gap in the front between the bevel and the lens which hides any minor inperfections in my cut and gives the assembly a kinda cool red pinstripe beween the glass and the chrome. Should also keep that exposed cut edge from rusting since cutting it dechromes the edge, not that my SoCal bikes need to worry about that much.

I did the first one last weekend and should have the 2nd one by this weekend, I'll try and take some pics this time around.

Got the reflector from http://www.talbotco.com/index.htm and I think he can also get the 35/35W bulbs, but I got mine from somewhere in the UK, that is on my crashed computer. The pilot/city/running light bulb is the same ba9 that the Thai reflector uses. One note, the Thai reflector is a typical DOT type scatter pattern with no real defined focus other than scatterd high and scattered low, the Cibie (and all E-Code reflectors) use very defined light patterns so where as the Thai light you can get a little more scattered light by bumping the running light bulb (effectively like adding a bit of high beam to both the low beam and the high beam), on the Cibie even the 10W halogen in the running light will be disruptive to the main beam so you really need to keep it at 5W.

[kbeck]

I just picked up a 73 xl 250 and the lights are super dim. It's a stripped down version of it's former self with no battery, kick start only. I was wondering if anyone knew whether or not I could use a NiMH re-chargable battery pack connected using the old stock battery connector to run the head and tail lights. There are no blinkers on the bike so I'm not worried about relays and such and I would only need it to run for 2 hours max at a time.

[skorpioskorpio]

Originally Posted by kbeck

I just picked up a 73 xl 250 and the lights are super dim. It's a stripped down version of it's former self with no battery, kick start only. I was wondering if anyone knew whether or not I could use a NiMH re-chargable battery pack connected using the old stock battery connector to run the head and tail lights. There are no blinkers on the bike so I'm not worried about relays and such and I would only need it to run for 2 hours max at a time.

The headlight runs off of it's own coil in the stator and has nothing to do with the battery. The battery charging coil in the stator actually has significantly lower output and isn't really capable of driving the headlight, battery or not. The headlight would drain the battery much faster than the stator could charge it. You'd basically be creating a flashlight.

As far as NiMH batteries, it's been done, I wouldn't do it myself knowing how unforgiving nickel based batteries can be (lithium is worse still) and how erratic the DC circuit is. The DC circuit is nothing like a regulated DC powersupply that is generally used to charge NiCad and NiMH batteries. There is no smoothing capaciters, the regualtor is iffy, the voltage is wildly variable, not sure how trusty the rectifier is, simply put a battery charger puts out a bit more than the the voltage draw that a battery puts out, it puts out a steady DC power, and the better ones stop when the battery is fully charged. The bike does none of these things, its pulsed DC, often less than the output voltage and sometimes more than double at high RPMs, is in continuous charge discharge all the things that make nickel batteries fail, and burst. Nickle batteries are made to be fully chaged, then full discharged for best longevity. They can tolorate a finite number of cycles and can get "stuck" in half discharged mode.

But, all that said, it's been done and there are those that have been happy with the result, dispite the fact that it should be the ingredients of a train wreck.

[pommie john]

Before and after shots of my latest project.
I bought the world's worst XL250, everything was wrecked, cam, big ends, broken ring, the more I tore it to pieces the worse it got. Even the crankcase had been broken where a chain had broken at some stage in its sorry life.
I was half way to thinking I should bin the whole project and find a better one.

As bought:




Finished engine:

Lots of paint stripper and wire wool work went into that.




Progress so far:


I've made a CB 350 wheel fit in there for the 2LS brake and 18" wheel, and the forks have been modified to reduce their travel to 130mm. It's a Bultaco Astro seat which I think looks nice, and I'll be making my own exhaust.
In case you hadn't guessed I plan to road race it as a tracker styled bike.