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Old 07-02-2012, 09:25 PM   #1096
hunter_greyghost
XS650 Allroads Traveller
 
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Location: Yass, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pommie john View Post
Yep, you got it! No o ring, and the needle jet was covered in corrosion.

I'm going to order a complete rebuild kit today that should have all those bits in it. It's getting close to dealine now. I have to get my race entry in by the end of this week and have the bike ready to race in two and a half weeks!!
Where abouts you going to race & what category?
Cheers
Baza
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1981 XS650SH "Tourer" [ For Sale - when / maybe?], 1975 XS650B "Adventure" ['Kenny Krazyhorse'], 1982 XL500R 'Project'
www.aussiegreyghost.smugmug.com
Couldn't afford a 'GSA', so now it's an 'XSA' "I didn't do it! & whoever said I did, is a liar!"
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:02 PM   #1097
pommie john
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter_greyghost View Post
Where abouts you going to race & what category?
Cheers
Baza
Stanthorpe, historic road racing... yeah on a trail bike, but hey what's life without a challenge?

I am a bit worried I might not make it. The bike runs but badly. It won't accept full throttle which I think may be a fouled plug, but it's very rich but the smoke has a blue haze to it. I'm praying that the blue smoke is oil being washed off the bore by a massively rich mixture rather than a fundamental problem with the rings or guides.

I've ordered a carb rebuild kit which should be here tomorrow. I hope to have diagnosed the problem in the next couple of days.
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Old 07-03-2012, 12:38 AM   #1098
$eabee78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cam14 View Post
Does not really work that way. Engine displacement is a mathematical formula of bore and stroke. (.7854 X cylinders X stroke X bore X bore = total CD. Note of B and S are in MM then you get displacement is liters. If in inched then displacement in inches) Assuming that a jug of a larger engine would fit (do not think that they would and assume that they would not) you would just end up with an over square engine. It would be larger but not what you are asking for. To get the appropriate stroke, you would need the larger crank with the appropriate connecting rod. With the appropriate machining, it could be done but much easier to just sway motors at this point. Hope this helps
That makes a lot of sense actually, thank you for taking the time to help.
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:34 AM   #1099
hunter_greyghost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pommie john View Post
Stanthorpe, historic road racing... yeah on a trail bike, but hey what's life without a challenge?

I am a bit worried I might not make it. The bike runs but badly. It won't accept full throttle which I think may be a fouled plug, but it's very rich but the smoke has a blue haze to it. I'm praying that the blue smoke is oil being washed off the bore by a massively rich mixture rather than a fundamental problem with the rings or guides.

I've ordered a carb rebuild kit which should be here tomorrow. I hope to have diagnosed the problem in the next couple of days.
Have you had the carby apart & cross referenced the jetting etc.
Cheers
Baza
__________________
1981 XS650SH "Tourer" [ For Sale - when / maybe?], 1975 XS650B "Adventure" ['Kenny Krazyhorse'], 1982 XL500R 'Project'
www.aussiegreyghost.smugmug.com
Couldn't afford a 'GSA', so now it's an 'XSA' "I didn't do it! & whoever said I did, is a liar!"
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Old 07-03-2012, 02:49 AM   #1100
pommie john
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter_greyghost View Post
Have you had the carby apart & cross referenced the jetting etc.
Cheers
Baza


yeah, it's aprt now. There's no O ring on the pilot screw, the needle jet was covered in grime for half its length, but the jets are the correct ones. 120 main, 45 pilot.
The needle looks good with no obvious wear but the kit I've ordered has new needle, needle jet, main jet , pilot jet float valve and all gaskets and o rings, so I hope I'll have it sorted in the next couple of days.
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Old 07-03-2012, 03:30 AM   #1101
hunter_greyghost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pommie john View Post
yeah, it's aprt now. There's no O ring on the pilot screw, the needle jet was covered in grime for half its length, but the jets are the correct ones. 120 main, 45 pilot.
The needle looks good with no obvious wear but the kit I've ordered has new needle, needle jet, main jet , pilot jet float valve and all gaskets and o rings, so I hope I'll have it sorted in the next couple of days.
Once you chuck that through the carby & make sure everything is set right, it'll go like the clappers,
always been a reliable sort of bike, sitting in sheds doesn't help though!
Cheers
Baza
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1981 XS650SH "Tourer" [ For Sale - when / maybe?], 1975 XS650B "Adventure" ['Kenny Krazyhorse'], 1982 XL500R 'Project'
www.aussiegreyghost.smugmug.com
Couldn't afford a 'GSA', so now it's an 'XSA' "I didn't do it! & whoever said I did, is a liar!"
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:53 AM   #1102
pommie john
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OK, I am officially pissed off now.

The carb rebuild kit came without a needle jet and with the wrong sized O ring for the air screw.

I put it all together with new needle, new main jet , new pilot jet and found an O ring that nearly fitted the air screw so I rubbed down the OD and it sort of fits.

No better. it takes up to quarter throttle but dies when you open it up more. I tired a bigger main jet, no different.

I have just finished bodging a 34mm dellorto carb off my Norton to fit but it's a bit late to be upsetting the neighbours so I'll try it tomorrow morning.

If it is still the same I guess I've got to look at the ignition.
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Old 07-04-2012, 03:08 AM   #1103
hunter_greyghost
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Shit that's no good mate, good luck with it, gets frustrating sometimes doesn't!,
especially when you find the problem, it's usually something simple - 99% of the time!!
Cheers
Baza
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1981 XS650SH "Tourer" [ For Sale - when / maybe?], 1975 XS650B "Adventure" ['Kenny Krazyhorse'], 1982 XL500R 'Project'
www.aussiegreyghost.smugmug.com
Couldn't afford a 'GSA', so now it's an 'XSA' "I didn't do it! & whoever said I did, is a liar!"
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Old 07-04-2012, 04:17 AM   #1104
pommie john
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One thing that's got me wondering. When I bought it, the PO had wired the ignition coil up to the white wire from the alternator. According to the wiring diagram I have it should be the black wire. I've put it on the black, but I'm wondering if there's a reason for the change that the PO did.

"It's running without a battery.

My plan is this:

1 Try different carb
2 Disconnect alternator and run total loss from 6v battery.
3 Cry like a girl
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Old 07-04-2012, 07:32 AM   #1105
mikejohn
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xl500r head

Howdy all, does anyone here have a XL500 head that is damaged? I need one that the exhaust ports are ok, so i can use it to mod a ktm header pipe to the xl. yeah I like to tinker
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:01 AM   #1106
skorpioskorpio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pommie john View Post
One thing that's got me wondering. When I bought it, the PO had wired the ignition coil up to the white wire from the alternator. According to the wiring diagram I have it should be the black wire. I've put it on the black, but I'm wondering if there's a reason for the change that the PO did.

"It's running without a battery.

My plan is this:

1 Try different carb
2 Disconnect alternator and run total loss from 6v battery.
3 Cry like a girl
Off the top of my head the coil gets wired to the black/white stripe wire. The only things connected to the "ignition wire" is the coil, the ignition switch and the kill switch (both of which ground that wire when off). This is a seperate and isolated coil in the stator that only provides energy for the coil.

Your symptoms actually sound like points and timing, check and double check your gap, it's very easy to miss the high spot on the points lobe. If the points are set to too narrow of a gap the bike will carbon foul the plug and spit and bog at higher rpms. Is this what's happening? Of course also check the timing.
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:35 PM   #1107
hunter_greyghost
XS650 Allroads Traveller
 
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Location: Yass, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pommie john View Post
One thing that's got me wondering. When I bought it, the PO had wired the ignition coil up to the white wire from the alternator. According to the wiring diagram I have it should be the black wire. I've put it on the black, but I'm wondering if there's a reason for the change that the PO did.

"It's running without a battery.

My plan is this:

1 Try different carb
2 Disconnect alternator and run total loss from 6v battery.
3 Cry like a girl
Bet ya that's the problem, it's not putting out enough electrical thingmes to handle the extra juice when you open it up [throttle]
skorpioskorpio
Off the top of my head the coil gets wired to the black/white stripe wire. The only things connected to the "ignition wire" is the coil, the ignition switch and the kill switch (both of which ground that wire when off). This is a seperate and isolated coil in the stator that only provides energy for the coil.

Your symptoms actually sound like points and timing, check and double check your gap, it's very easy to miss the high spot on the points lobe. If the points are set to too narrow of a gap the bike will carbon foul the plug and spit and bog at higher rpms. Is this what's happening? Of course also check the timing.

Very valid point too, haven't played with a honda for a couple of years now but about to have my memory jogged soon I think - XL500R
Cheers
Baza
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1981 XS650SH "Tourer" [ For Sale - when / maybe?], 1975 XS650B "Adventure" ['Kenny Krazyhorse'], 1982 XL500R 'Project'
www.aussiegreyghost.smugmug.com
Couldn't afford a 'GSA', so now it's an 'XSA' "I didn't do it! & whoever said I did, is a liar!"
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Old 07-04-2012, 04:08 PM   #1108
pommie john
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Alright..

I bodged the 34mm dellorto from my Norton on there and reset the points. I'm embarrassed to say the points were at 7 thou. A quick blatt around the block and it's miles miles better. It revs out and will take full throttle. It's still a bit spluttery in the middle but that's just a bit of tweaking.
I can't do much more today, the neighbours are looking at me and a little old lady looked very upset as I gave it full throttle past her. It's kinda noisy:)

Thanks for the help hunter and skorpio. I was starting to get despondent but at least I now have a starting point and I can start to work on jetting.
Thanks again I really appreciate it.
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:44 PM   #1109
hunter_greyghost
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No probs old son, good luck
Cheers
Baza
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1981 XS650SH "Tourer" [ For Sale - when / maybe?], 1975 XS650B "Adventure" ['Kenny Krazyhorse'], 1982 XL500R 'Project'
www.aussiegreyghost.smugmug.com
Couldn't afford a 'GSA', so now it's an 'XSA' "I didn't do it! & whoever said I did, is a liar!"
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Old 07-05-2012, 02:15 PM   #1110
skorpioskorpio
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It's what forums like this are for to benefit from what others have learned. That whole points gap too thin thing caused me to have to change a glorious ride on my cleaned up old XL250, to a humbling and strenuous 3 mile push through Beverly Hills a couple years back.

Also a lot of the Australian VMX racers swear that aftermarket points last for a couple races and OEM Honda points last a decade, so if your bike has been diddled with, and it sounds like it has, the previous owner may have replaced the points, as we all think we should, with what is commonly available, that none of us would ever question.... I mean it's just a spring and a contact, right? But according to some it really matters.

I personally also get better spark, first or 2nd kick starts and never a sputter with ND plugs (X24ES-U) and will take 4 or 5 kicks and pop occasionally with the equivelent NGK. This is true on 2 different XL250s one high milage (over 30,000mi) and one low (less than 1000mi).
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