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Old 11-25-2009, 04:08 PM   #256
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Predominantly Warm Weather 3+ Season All-Weather Riding Options from REV'IT!

Hi Ivan,

I rank your needs Hot Weather Venting, All-Weather Blocking, Protective

Right out of the gates, you are correct, the Cayenne Pro will be way too hot in the summer and you will spend most of the Year with the Exkin Thermal Liner out so paying for the thermal upgrade doesn't make a lot of sense. The only big differentiator of the CP Jacket over anything else you listed is the SAS-TEC molecular armor - which is the MOST protective shoulder, elbow and knee armor.

With regard to hot weather, the Sirocco and the Turbine offer the same level of ventilation through the Dynax mesh. The Turbine may even have a slight edge.

From a protective standpoint the Turbine and the Sirocco both have ProLife CE2 Armor in the Shoulders and Elbows. The Turbine does however have SuperFabric panels on the elbows like the Cayenne Pro (as do the turbine pants). SuperFabric is 14x more abrasion resistant than Kevlar and will allow you to slide longer than the Sirocco / Dakar on your elbow or knee if you drop your bike at speed. Its a feature upgrade, but the hope is that you never have to "test it out" :-)

I think the big factor in your decision is low temperatures and precipitation. You would be cold in a Turbine for your climate. There are zero layers inside and a predominantly mesh exterior. There is no way to turn off the "conditioning". The Sirocco is actually perfectly suited for your climate. 3.5 seaosn riding skewing more warm than cold. The Sirocco has removable wind/waterproof lining as well as a removable thermal layer. It covers all the bases. Also with the Sirocco it is completely water proof via its removable Hydratex breathable lining. The Turbine has no such wind/water or thermal linings. It is meant for single season dry condition riding.

Think of the Sand Jacket and Pants combo as a baby version of the Cayenne Pro. They use the same armor as the Sirocco and The Turbine. Also the Sand Combo is meant for true 4 season riding, so by definition it will not vent as well as either of the Turbine or Sirocco - this leads me back to the Sirocco. The Sand is also 3/4 length as is the Sirocco.

On a final note the Turbine pants will breathe better than any of the other pants mentioned - the Dakar's, Cayenne Pro's and the Sand Pants are all 4 season with no mesh - although they all have wind/water and thermal liners. The Turbine Jacket has no Liner, but the Turbine Pants do have a Hydratex removable Wind/water liner. That being said, they are waterproof / windproof with the liner in. If you added a base layer underneath them in the coolest season you may be able to stretch them into the basement of you temp range. Being able to block the mesh airflow is key - its the missing piece from the lack of liner in the Turbine Jacket.

To Conclude:

You best Jacket is the Sirocco for 3+ Season - primarily warm riding. the other won't vent as well except for the Turbine which "only does hot" and has no waterproof functionality.

You best Pant option is the Turbine with a Thermal Base layer under it. This will give you 3+ season primarily warm weather riding coverage. The Sand, Dakar and Cayenne Pro will all vent well, but not even come close to the breathability of the Turbine in Scorching heat.

Both Jackets have the same level of armor with the Turbine Pants having the added benefit of SuperFabric Reinforced Knees.

For added info you can check out the 4 vids below: Sirocco Jacket, Turbine Jacket, Sand Jacket and Superfabric if you like. We also have a ton of other REV'IT! Videos on RevZillaTV (www.youtube.com/revzillaTV).


Sirocco Jacket -



Turbine Jacket -


Sand Jacket and Pants -


SuperFabric -


Let me know what other questions you may have -

Best

Anthony

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Vukcevic
Hello Anthony,

I just went trough this topic and I want to thank you and everybody at Revzilla for taking your time and sharing this wealth of information with us.
Your explanations have been extensive, to say the least, but if you don't mind I have one more question for you.

I'm in the process of choosing the right Rev'it jacket + pants witch I would like to wear all year round.
I ride 3+ seasons of the year in temperatures that range from 0 to 45 degrees Celsius. Winters aren't very cold here and rarely with snow (20℃ today November 25.) but from May to September it gets scorching hot.

Because of this I believe that Cayenne Pro combo would be inadequate for hot weather.
So I'm down to Turbine jacket+pants, Sirocco jacket + Dakar pants and the new Sand jacket and pants.

Witch of these is the most bombproof and adequate for said temperatures and for adventure/street riding?
I know you said that the Turbine is the best hot weather mesh outfit but will it take me through, at least, this winter and colder temperatures?

I suppose that Sirocco and Sand line are pretty similar regarding temperature range.


Cheers.
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Old 11-25-2009, 04:23 PM   #257
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Hey Craig,

In every 1000 jackets - theres going to be a lemon. We sell a thousand of these a year and once on a blue moon it happens. Maybe the seam-sealing was defective or maybe the shells DWR wasn't applied. Any time you have mass production at the human level, you always have a straggler that gets through. I wish it was avoidable, but its not.

The easy solution is to just give us a ring and we will give you a call tag (prepaid shipping label) and either replace the Cayenne Pro, swap it for something different or give you a refund, whatever you prefer.

Don't lose any sleep over it. For future reference this is a standard REV'IT! warranty issue, usually a quick email or call to us or REV'IT! would get the ball rolling.

Keep me posted on what you decide.

Also - with regard to the shell picking up some water - its by design - You can't water proof an outershell with major vents on it. The vents will leak under extreme circumstances. They have to put the waterproofing into the removable liner inside the jacket if they include major vents for breathability with the liners out.

Regarding the back pad, the SAS-TEC is very expensive and there is also a less expensive Knox option. REV'IT!'s stance is rather than bumping the jacket over $600 and not giving a choice of back armor (either $29 for Knox or $49 for SAS-TEC) they give the customer the option.

Best,

Anthony

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWf800gs
My Cayenne Pro jacket has pockets that are supposed to be waterproof but when I took my iphone out it was drenched.
Also the velcro that runs midsagittally on the jacket catches the sleeves and other parts of the jacket and causes it to fray.
The main jacket part is not even water resistant so when it rains it just acts like a sponge and sucks up all the water. When I get to work, home or where ever, it just drips very much all over everything.
Also I would recommend at $600 the jacket should come with the pad and I should not had to go out and buy it myself and install it in my jacket!
The stitching is coming apart on it also!
I think also due to the jacket not having any water or stain repellence whatsoever, that the jacket gets and and shows dirt and stains immediately.
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Old 11-25-2009, 04:34 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoochZilla
Hey Craig,

In every 1000 jackets - theres going to be a lemon. We sell a thousand of these a year and once on a blue moon it happens. Maybe the seam-sealing was defective or maybe the shells DWR wasn't applied. Any time you have mass production at the human level, you always have a straggler that gets through. I wish it was avoidable, but its not.

The easy solution is to just give us a ring and we will give you a call tag (prepaid shipping label) and either replace the Cayenne Pro, swap it for something different or give you a refund, whatever you prefer.

Don't lose any sleep over it. For future reference this is a standard REV'IT! warranty issue, usually a quick email or call to us or REV'IT! would get the ball rolling.

Keep me posted on what you decide.

Anthony
That's great service, and, Rev'it has always been great with my warranty issues over the past 4 years or so. I follow the Rev'it threads, because it is great looking, very innovative, comfortable gear. Problem is that out of the 3 of 4 items I've owned, I had very similar experiences as Craig. Rev'it, in my mind, is nothing more than fashion, and, fluff. I REALLY want them to get it together. Really. Their stuff looks great. It's got all the fancy brands. Innovation, such as the Superfabric. All great stuff, but, it doesn't mean anything if it falls apart, and, doesn't perform.

Several months ago, I was at a New England dealer that was telling me about not carrying Rev'it anymore because of all the warranty problems.

Too bad. It seems like if they could get it together, no one could touch them. Tell Rev'it to focus on the basics, rather than flipping the "collection" every other year, and, they will be unbeatable.
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Old 11-25-2009, 05:01 PM   #259
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BoochZilla

Thank you for your reply.
But some points that I think should be addressed:
I understand what you are saying about the DWR and H2O proofness of the outer jacket vs venting BUT if a DWR or some type of H2O and stain repellent was used it would not stain so easy and it would not drip all over everything. Also maybe it would not take so long to dry.
Plus maybe a place to attach your gloves may be nice(some kind of loop).
Also pull tabs that are easy to use with gloves on or at least having that option I would think would be a good idea. Did you or the Co. not us long pull tabs because of a safety issue?
I am interested in the reason things are done and designed.
What do you think?
Also sorry for the bad press but when I get mad and or feel ripped off I want to tell all about it and warn them so it does not happen to them.
But a quality reply such as yours is one way to counteract in a positive manner negative (but factual) statements such as mine.
To me I paid a lot of $$$$ and time on making my selection and that is part of the reason for my venting.
I hope you understand.
I also want to say I like the "Euro fit" VS the fat american fit. There are plenty of McDonalds eating non exercising fit clothing already.
I am a cyclist both MTB and road along with my other activities and I try to eat half decent and take care of myself.
I try to be responsible and do my research and educate myself about my purchases, so maybe you can understand my frustration.
I also try to support U.S.A. made products when I can.
I hope my information will help.

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Old 11-25-2009, 05:08 PM   #260
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Hi Jim,

Thanks for chiming in. I know you are a regular here and SportTouring.net, your educated responses have always been noted within our walls over the past couple of years.

That being said, it kills me you have had a bad experience. I remember when we first started with REV'IT! - the line today vs even some of the 2007 gear is light years better than it was. I also remember the issues with the 2006 gloves which were promptly fixed (materials & construction) in the next season. And I agree there have been some things that have reoccurred with certain pieces that ended up being warranty headaches for us and our customers, but REV'IT! has always acknowledged and honored their warranty policy with little fuss.

Also with regard to the "flipping" - In America REV'IT!'s core audience is us, the adventure touring multi-season textile guys. In Europe its much more track and leather balanced. I think that REV'IT! is still learning to meet the slightly different demands and body fitments of the American clientele. I have seen the 2010 line and I have also seen a preview of 2011, I think that what most people will see is that more existing styles will be improved upon vs stabs at whole new jackets for different applications being rolled out. We should see much more homeostasis in their line than we have over '06 - '09. IMO I think they had a dramatically better handle on the needs (both fit and usage) of their US customers than they did even 18 months ago.

Also over the last few years I can say that at the dealer level I have absolutely seen marked improvement as they have gotten more popular. If this was not the case, there is no way I (as one of the owners of RevZilla) would stock the levels that I do. They have proven there was a solid infrastructure behind the manufacturer for support if and when there are problems at the dealer or customer level.

That being said, Jim, I appreciate your feedback and hope somewhere down the line REV'IT! starts to impress you again - besides the style elements. Also I know that I am writing this primarily from a Dealer's (and secondly as a REV'IT! user's) perspective - so you can obviously take me with a grain of salt.

They do a good job of listening and improving and where they miss the mark we reinforce what our customers are telling us. This kind of feedback only helps improve the product in the long term, thanks again for chiming in.

Have a great holiday,

Anthony Bucci






Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams
That's great service, and, Rev'it has always been great with my warranty issues over the past 4 years or so. I follow the Rev'it threads, because it is great looking, very innovative, comfortable gear. Problem is that out of the 3 of 4 items I've owned, I had very similar experiences as Craig. Rev'it, in my mind, is nothing more than fashion, and, fluff. I REALLY want them to get it together. Really. Their stuff looks great. It's got all the fancy brands. Innovation, such as the Superfabric. All great stuff, but, it doesn't mean anything if it falls apart, and, doesn't perform.

Several months ago, I was at a New England dealer that was telling me about not carrying Rev'it anymore because of all the warranty problems.

Too bad. It seems like if they could get it together, no one could touch them. Tell Rev'it to focus on the basics, rather than flipping the "collection" every other year, and, they will be unbeatable.
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:10 PM   #261
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Happy Thanksgiving to us all!

Happy early Merry Christmas.
Best wishes to you all!
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:45 AM   #262
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More info regarding customer service

Good info.
I bought it at Coleman in falls church. It did not have a hang tag though.
And yes it was supposed to be new. I payed new $$$$$ for it!
I did talk to Coleman Powersports about it and they said they would talk to revit about it. I have had very good experiences with Cole. P. Even though they do not sell BMW! In fact so far I by far enjoy supporting them more than the BMW dealers. I would rather support a good local business than a Internet or mail order! Otherwise. We will not have any good little guys/local to go to when we really need something!
I think the reason BMW dealers are the way they are is because corporate BMW is so stingy, and that hurts the individual dealer in the pocket!!
Dealers here are laying people off.
So if you have a good dealer locally you may want to support them vs internet or phone/mail Business!!
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:28 PM   #263
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Happy Turkey Day

Happy Thanksgiving to all my adventuresome inmate friends.

I hope it was a day well spent in a food coma. It was for me.

Anthony
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Old 11-27-2009, 09:57 AM   #264
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Hi Ivan,

Thanks for the feedback. Glad I was able to get you some good information.

The waterproof / breathable lining of the boots is built into the inner-shell of the boot. That separation should not affect weatherproofedness, it seems to be cosmetic wear - If you do notice leakage and it becomes a bigger issue it could be quick and easy call to REV'IT! for a recommendation or replacement - they would be the final call on defective vs wear & tear failure.

Regarding your Jacket / Pants combo - feel free to leave me a message here, PM or call us up. We are here today until at least 6pm EST. More than happy to speak with you.

Best,

Anthony

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Vukcevic
Anthony,

Thank you very much for your reply.
You have interpreted my question very well and you explanation is immensely helpful since I don't have the opportunity to see the gear in person.
I hope to hear soon from you guys through your shop.

I have one more question regarding my Apache boots.
I had them for about one month and put around 1000km in them but protective layer over the zipper on the left boot is already pealing off. Will that compromise water-resistance?
Here is the picture with the right boot for reference:
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:04 AM   #265
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Hi BMW -

I personally know the guys at Coleman's, they are a great crew. I am sure if you follow up with them they will take good care of you. They have a great destination store down in your neck of the woods and do a lot of things right.

I hear ya on supporting the local businesses vs the strictly online guys. We started as a local gear shop in Philadelphia catering to the the Euro Track Rider and Adventure Touring crowd, but knew to combat the economy and the online discounters we had to go online to stay competitive.

Our first store was about 600 sq/ft and we only sold gear. Myself and two of my friends, all under 30, started this business in '07 with our life savings and our love for the sport.

We still only sell gear but our business has grown. I think the key to our success has been feeling HUGE online and in our Philly store, but always approaching our customers like the "mom & pop" bike shop that we are, on the phone, in our store, and on the net. I think our customers have figured out why we are different as well, we continue to get great feedback on our approach to this biz. (You can read some of our ratings and customer feedback here Google.com/RevZilla)

Fortunately for us, we figured out the online equation and have had great growth with it. We have also reinvested our success into our store and now have a 4,500 Sq/ft store to support our local Philadelphia / Tri-State Riding Community. Check it out!


You can get directions here ;-)

We now proudly hold the title of the largest stocking REV'IT! dealer in North America and the largest stocking Dainese dealer east of the Mississippi. We continue to get great support from our local riding community as well as our online customers who either don't have a local option or appreciate that we stock a lot of very hard to find items, offer great service around them and usually ship same day.

If it isn't apparent - you absolutely struck a chord with me - I agree with your point 100%! Support your local dealer! And if you do shop online, give a real dealer with good customer service and a good online site a shot! The vendors forum on Advrider is a great place to start! There are many of us all over the country. The MONSTER online pure-plays are in it for the volume, guys like us and our fellow small vendors are in it for the long haul!

Have a great holiday season. I am sure the guys at REV'IT! will help you out! Let me know if you get stuck, I would be happy to shoot them a line on your behalf as well.

All the best,

Anthony


Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWf800gs
Good info.
I bought it at Coleman in falls church. It did not have a hang tag though.
And yes it was supposed to be new. I payed new $$$$$ for it!
I did talk to Coleman Powersports about it and they said they would talk to revit about it. I have had very good experiences with Cole. P. Even though they do not sell BMW! In fact so far I by far enjoy supporting them more than the BMW dealers. I would rather support a good local business than a Internet or mail order! Otherwise. We will not have any good little guys/local to go to when we really need something!
I think the reason BMW dealers are the way they are is because corporate BMW is so stingy, and that hurts the individual dealer in the pocket!!
Dealers here are laying people off.
So if you have a good dealer locally you may want to support them vs internet or phone/mail Business!!
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Old 11-30-2009, 06:59 PM   #266
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New FirstGear Rainer and Kathmandu All-Season Jacket Vids

Hi Everyone,

Recently we have been getting a lot of questions about All-Season ADV Styled Jackets to be worn primarily in cooler and damp climates which take the "in" more than they are out. A lot of our customers (mainly in the Pacific NW) have been looking for a non-drop liner recommendation. They are willing to trade off some ventilation for a jacket with a single Thermal liner with a waterproof / breathable outershell vs the normal two liner system that you see in most high end all-season coats. The benefit is never having to pull over and the outer shell carrying less water weight. Its a tradeoff, but we do see it being asked for from our customers.

The two best we have seen in 3/4 length are the FirstGear TPG Rainier Jacket and the FirstGear Kathmandu Jacket. We recently shot video on both of them. They also both have an athletic cut to them as opposed to the normal FG box cut. The Kilimanjaro Jacket (3/4) & TPG Teton (Waist Length) would fit into this mix as well, but their videos are not finished yet, so I wanted to post these two

The big upgrades on the TPG is the d30 Molecular Armor which is extremely comfortable and gets rigid upon impact, much like some other High-End Euro Armor that some other brands use.

The Kathmandu has Ripstop Nylon which we rarely see in the moto-world and is a welcomed addition.

The TPG Rainer Jacket goes for $449.99 and would be considered the Flagship Jacket. I own a 2010 a black one myself and did my last adventure trail ride in it. It made me a fan, I'll be honest.


The Kathmandu Jacket sells for $287.95.


Any questions or comments welcome. Will put up vids for the Teton and Kilimanjaro when I have a second.

Anthony
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Old 11-30-2009, 08:33 PM   #267
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d3o vs Sas-Tec vs BMW NP vs Aerostich TF5 or 4 armor?

Also how about the Aerostich TF4 or 4 armor/pads? Quality and features of Aerostich pants, jackets, etc.?
Customer service, etc. of Aerostich?
Do any of you know which is better and why?
From the research I have done it seems the sas tec and BMW NP are the same and best protection, level 2.
d3o is good but level 1 a step down in protection.
Also what about durabilty between them, as far as cracking, degrading in any way?
I am not trying to attack or degrade any company or armor! I just want to know what is the best protection and the cost.
Any other wisdom and useful information is appreciated.
Thank you.

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Old 12-01-2009, 04:40 AM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWf800gs
Also how about the Aerostich TF4 or 4 armor/pads? Quality and features of Aerostich pants, jackets, etc.?
Customer service, etc. of Aerostich?
Do any of you know which is better and why?
From the research I have done it seems the sas tec and BMW NP are the same and best protection, level 2.
d3o is good but level 1 a step down in protection.
Also what about durabilty between them, as far as cracking, degrading in any way?
I am not trying to attack or degrade any company or armor! I just want to know what is the best protection and the cost.
Any other wisdom and useful information is appreciated.
Thank you.
I just got some of the TF4 armor for my roadcrafter. It is similar, but, not the same as that used to make the Motoport Quad armor. For some reason, it is not the same as what Aerostich initially tested, and, it scores slightly lower as a result. They claim it is very slightly lower than their own TF3, but, well below the CE threshhold of 35 joules. The new TF4 coming in at 28joules. TF3 at 26. Lower being better.

For me, the best thing about it is that it will not get hard when cold. I have some NP armor in the garage right now. Below 50 or so, it is so hard, it has no give whatsoever. Literally, it's like hitting a wall. The Sas Tec in my old Rev'it jacket did exactly the same thing. Now, I'm no expert in armor, but, it sure seems like going down on this newer, more high tech armor that may test great in a warm room in the cold is going to do some damage. I do not want to crash in that NP or SasTec in the winter, I'll tell you that much. I punched a piece last night on my bench and felt it an hour later. It really hurt! Something to keep in mind! If i was buying a new BMW jacket, or, Rev'it jacket with SasTec, I'd be upgrading to T-Pro for this reason.
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Old 12-02-2009, 09:44 AM   #269
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That's great info Jim. I do not have much experience with the TF armor.

Last time I was in NYC meeting with REV'IT! we actually did discuss the temperature rating of SAS-TEC and I was assured there would be improvements in cold weather comfort somewhere down the line. How far that is off is anyone's guess. Its a matter of personal preference I guess, the armor would start cold, but usually become softer and shape to you as your body heat warms it up. I have heard feedback from both camps since the SAS-TEC came out in the Cayenne Pro.

I would love to see an independent study pitting SAS-TEC, d3o and TF3/4 side by side. They all exceed the normal CE scale, but I would love to see which provides the best protection.

Maybe we'll cover an intern with the three and hit them with mallets - could make for a fun video, albeit a little less pro than the "scientific method"

Best,

Anthony

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams
I just got some of the TF4 armor for my roadcrafter. It is similar, but, not the same as that used to make the Motoport Quad armor. For some reason, it is not the same as what Aerostich initially tested, and, it scores slightly lower as a result. They claim it is very slightly lower than their own TF3, but, well below the CE threshhold of 35 joules. The new TF4 coming in at 28joules. TF3 at 26. Lower being better.

For me, the best thing about it is that it will not get hard when cold. I have some NP armor in the garage right now. Below 50 or so, it is so hard, it has no give whatsoever. Literally, it's like hitting a wall. The Sas Tec in my old Rev'it jacket did exactly the same thing. Now, I'm no expert in armor, but, it sure seems like going down on this newer, more high tech armor that may test great in a warm room in the cold is going to do some damage. I do not want to crash in that NP or SasTec in the winter, I'll tell you that much. I punched a piece last night on my bench and felt it an hour later. It really hurt! Something to keep in mind! If i was buying a new BMW jacket, or, Rev'it jacket with SasTec, I'd be upgrading to T-Pro for this reason.
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Old 12-02-2009, 01:50 PM   #270
levain
STILL Jim Williams
 
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Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Providence, RI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoochZilla
That's great info Jim. I do not have much experience with the TF armor.

Last time I was in NYC meeting with REV'IT! we actually did discuss the temperature rating of SAS-TEC and I was assured there would be improvements in cold weather comfort somewhere down the line. How far that is off is anyone's guess. Its a matter of personal preference I guess, the armor would start cold, but usually become softer and shape to you as your body heat warms it up. I have heard feedback from both camps since the SAS-TEC came out in the Cayenne Pro.

I would love to see an independent study pitting SAS-TEC, d3o and TF3/4 side by side. They all exceed the normal CE scale, but I would love to see which provides the best protection.

Maybe we'll cover an intern with the three and hit them with mallets - could make for a fun video, albeit a little less pro than the "scientific method"

Best,

Anthony
I don't buy the body warming up the armor bit. The armor is basically on the outside. If it's cold enough for it to harden, you'll also have layers on. Your body heat won't ever make it to the armor. If it did, you'd be freezing, and, add another layer! I'm happy to test anything Rev'it has in the works

The armor in my Cayenne Pro would get rock hard in the cold, and, that's with both liners in. It was especially annoying because it would have sharp edges. Same with my Roadcrafter, although, thanks to the foam, it at least gets a little flexible. Not rock hard. Somewhere in between, I guess. Still, bad enough to try to find a suitable replacement.
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levain screwed with this post 12-02-2009 at 01:56 PM
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