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Old 07-14-2014, 02:34 AM   #1
AlSheehan OP
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Do you ride standing up?

I got pulled up by the highway patrol last Sunday for riding standing up. He breathalysed me but didn't fine me for standing up, but was quite clear that I had been stopped for "Riding standing up, so didn't have proper control of the vehicle". We had a pretty civil but robust discussion about control of the vehicle - I think I pushed the point about as far as I could without getting him offside and incurring the wrath of the pen, but this sort of misinformation makes me see red. As he was leaving he said to me "If you need to stretch your legs, stop and get off the bike". I told him I didn't need to stretch my legs, I was standing up because it gives me better vision (around obstacles - parked cars in town etc), better control of the bike and makes me more visible. In fact I'd just fuelled up, the Air Hawk got scrunched while I was getting on so it wasn't comfortable, so stood up to let that straighten itself out and decided to stay on the pegs for exactly the reasons I told the copper. It was less than 400m from when I left the servo to when I was pulled up. I don't have any beef about the way the officer did his job at all. The law on the other hand...

Last week I had a look at the review consultation survey about this very road rule in Queensland, in which the discussion paper and survey actually pointed out the silliness of this road rule. After consulting with a Police friend, the NSW wording of the rule was exactly as I remembered from the Qld document. I have since done a bit of digging myself and the rule in question is part of the Australian Road Rules (so it's presumeably the same for all states unless that state has chosen to use something different) - rule 271, clause 1.

Quote:
The rider of a motor bike that is moving (other than a rider who is walking beside and
pushing a motor bike), or the rider of a motor bike that is stationary but not parked,
must:
(a) sit astride the rider’s seat facing forwards, and
(b) ride with at least 1 hand on the handlebars, and
(c) if the motor bike is moving—keep both feet on the footrests designed for use
by the rider of the motor bike.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.
If I was into conspiracy theories, I'd say its for revenue raising, but in honesty I just think it is lazy and unintelligent legislation. I know what the intent of it is, but when a rider can be penalised for being actually safer on the road, something is very wrong.

As pointed out by the Queensland review papers:
1. a rider is in breach when the bike is moving backwards into a parking spot while he sits astride it, because the rider is only exempt from this if he gets off and walks beside the bike.
2. a rider is in breach if riding in slow moving traffic without both feet on the pegs. Most people moving a few metres at a time at walking pace or below don't put their feet up on the pegs.
3. if you are riding and stand up on the pegs (i.e not sitting). It doesn't matter how long you stand for.
4. How many of us come to a complete stand still when stopping at intersections with both feet on the pegs? (if you are still moving you are in breach).
5. How many times have you stopped in traffic or at the lights and taken both hands off the bars at the same time?
6. Do you stand up when riding on dirt roads, fire trails or other public roads? It applies there too. Chances of being caught might be slim, but applies. In future, the chances of being caught may change.

What wrong with:

The rider of a motor bike that is moving (other than a rider who is walking beside and
pushing a motor bike) must:
(a) sit astride the rider’s seat or stand on the rider's footpegs facing forwards, and
(b) ride with at least 1 hand on the handlebars, and
(c) maintain 4 points of contact with the bike at all times (2 hands, 2 feet and 1 bum)?

I'd like to think it'd be possible to get this bit of legislation changed. It's dumb and counterproductive.

Al.
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:41 AM   #2
AlSheehan OP
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Actually I think 3 points of contact is more reasonable, so you can paddle in slow moving traffic.

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Old 07-14-2014, 02:56 AM   #3
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No Hands

Back in the late 70s people used to ride 300km on the Nullarbor without touching the handle bars
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Old 07-14-2014, 03:15 AM   #4
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Question Looking at the rulebook from the other side of the coin...

Hi Al.

i ride standing up (a lot)...

I ride on public roads regularly...

I ride on the street (or in traffic) almost never.

While I am a big supporter of the benefits of standing up on a motorcycle as a way of maintaining/increasing control in marginal road/traction conditions and or over rough ground/surfaces... I also recognise the benefit of standing up to "stretch the legs" on longer journeys also;

However, I wonder (and have done so a few times in the past when threads like this come up) what is the real PURPOSE of the regulation - as they are written - and consider this; did the legislators ever consider the aspect of "standing up" when they wrote the rules in the first place... way back when.

While your suggestions (and others we've read from time to time on similar threads) all put up valid and plausible points arguing the "pro" cause for "standing up". Are there any instances where to "stand" is not a good/safe practice?

The whole "three points/four points/five points" of contact, sitting/standing vs. one footing/paddling, one hand/two hands/no hands etc. all get's very complicated. And anyone who's ever ridden in "real world" situation knows there are (valid) exceptions to EVERY rule... but that's where the problem starts and finishes. Blind "by the letter of the law as written" adherence to paragraphs and clauses; not application of them with respect to common sense - the conditions that pevail at time of incident.

Traffic rules - just as motorsport regulations, get very protracted and complex when the powers that be try to write in every contingency.

Just something to think about if wanting to get the "rule" ammended... Go back and look at the overall aim of the regulation... (safe riding principles in a range of circumstances and conditions in general), not specific exceptions for specific circumstances...

PS: kudos for raising a good point (again). Sorry you got pinged. From memory Ciedma is one of our inmates that has proven very pro-active and adept at raising this kind of issue with authorities.
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Old 07-14-2014, 03:19 AM   #5
Morro
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why not just replace the word sit to be
ie (a) be astride the rider’s seat facing forwards, and..
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Old 07-14-2014, 03:21 AM   #6
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And many a person (including cops) will say you must stop at a stop sign for 3 seconds but it's not in the QLD road rules, look it up. But you try telling a cop that. They interpret the law as they see it and you get good decisions, eg a warning or bad like you didn't stop long enough. Badly written laws
Just had a look at VIC roads discover safe riding, page 83 standing on pegs to ride over rough or bumpy surfaces

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Old 07-14-2014, 03:22 AM   #7
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I move my feet from front to rear pegs when touring as I get cramps
I guess I would be booked
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Old 07-14-2014, 04:24 AM   #8
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Rewrite

It definitely needs to be rewritten but there is one issue I can think of with standing in a built up area - you can no longer see in the mirrors. That will probably be a sticking point - law wise . . .
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Old 07-14-2014, 04:50 AM   #9
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Been kicked around before this subject. The rta handbook says to stand at times, the law says sit astride.

Someone needs to test it in court.

I got pulled up riding down the main st of mendooran, middle of the day, not speeding, standing up. Cop worded me, I laughed and off we went. I think he was bored and wanted someone to talk to. Hasn't stopped me standing.
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Old 07-14-2014, 05:10 AM   #10
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In answer to your question, yes I do, at the appropriate time.

Do I need to stand up in the main street in a town........no.

Do I need to stand up when riding down a corrogated dirt rd, or a track, or through sand or other situations off road........yes at times.

I fail to see how standing up in the main street in a town would be any different to doing it in Pitt street or down Parramatta road, I'm fairly certain that the local police would pull you up just as quickly in any town and would feel justified in doing so, perhaps try telling them you have a tapeworm hanging out and you are on the way to a doctors.

The law is an ass, unless you really want to push it with a high priced mouthpiece, just sit down in town.
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Old 07-14-2014, 07:05 AM   #11
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I got pulled over (lights, siren) by a pretty little young blonde female (this is relevant - promise) copper a while back, for standing up for all of 10m to cross a particularly lumpy railway crossing (Diamonf Creek - since repaired).
She was all ready to chuck me in the divvie van too - this at 08.00 on the way to work.
Eventually I suggested that she couldn't possibly begin to understand what she called my "reckless driving (sic) style" ... because she DOESN'T HAVE A PROSTATE... said just loudly enough (to cover traffic noise) that people on the footpath turned to look.
Rookie-cop had the grace to blush a most attractive shade of pink and say in a voice you'd expect from a 10-year-old, "You can go..."
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Old 07-14-2014, 07:17 AM   #12
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Lucky she didn't call your bluff and administer the "bend over and cough" test...
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Old 07-14-2014, 07:32 AM   #13
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I can picture the scene as she pulls on the rubber glove after saying "I'll just confirm that you've got one...."


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Old 07-14-2014, 07:39 AM   #14
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... Then she hands him the glove afterwards (like they do with the little white disposable mouthpiece on the hand held breathanalyzer);
"... now you can go..."
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Quote:
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"...the Barstid never gives you anything for your Sig line, it's always too long........."
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Old 07-14-2014, 01:48 PM   #15
AlSheehan OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oodeano View Post
It definitely needs to be rewritten but there is one issue I can think of with standing in a built up area - you can no longer see in the mirrors. That will probably be a sticking point - law wise . . .
Exactly why I have a 3rd mirror. Not placed in the best spot unfortunately, I really need to get it sticking out more where I don't want it to be really effective...

Al.
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