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Old 06-05-2009, 02:00 PM   #196
workmybollocksoff
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sunday ride

Hi Mac, i am up for some dual sporting on sunday heading out from cochrane, i will call you later today.
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:47 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macuser
I usually do single track sickness on saturday and dual-sport sunday.
We had a little discussion about this last night after a pretty tough DS ride at McLeans (http://s571.photobucket.com/albums/ss157/advdog/McLEAN%20CREEK%20EXTREME%20DUAL%20SPORT/?albumview=slideshow). When you say "dual-sport ride", does that include off-road (quad trails & some single track) or is really a gravel road ride?

We've wrestled with this on the ADSMC group rides as there is such a wide definition for dual sport. For some it's cruising down a wide open gravel road on a big adventure touring bike, whereas I think of DS as riding to McLean Creek, Crowsnest Pass or Waiparous, hitting the trails (not gravel roads) for a few hours then riding home. I like doing both, but it's nice to know what to expect.

I suppose that it doesn't help matters when manufacturers try to position 550 lb touring bikes like the Varadero as a dual-sport - ouch.

Cheers,
Andy
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:09 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lav1200
We had a little discussion about this last night after a pretty tough DS ride at McLeans (http://s571.photobucket.com/albums/ss157/advdog/McLEAN%20CREEK%20EXTREME%20DUAL%20SPORT/?albumview=slideshow). When you say "dual-sport ride", does that include off-road (quad trails & some single track) or is really a gravel road ride?

We've wrestled with this on the ADSMC group rides as there is such a wide definition for dual sport. For some it's cruising down a wide open gravel road on a big adventure touring bike, whereas I think of DS as riding to McLean Creek, Crowsnest Pass or Waiparous, hitting the trails (not gravel roads) for a few hours then riding home. I like doing both, but it's nice to know what to expect.

I suppose that it doesn't help matters when manufacturers try to position 550 lb touring bikes like the Varadero as a dual-sport - ouch.

Cheers,
Andy
Ya know Andy, as much as I ribbed you about the "DS" ride on Sunday, I made every decision to keep going. I could have bailed at any point but was in the mood to push myself. Group rides are alway a crap shoot, especially when organized through a club that meets on the internet. Variates in bikes and skill levels make rides enjoyable for everyone a challenge. The expecations are hard to manage. you can have newer riders who get in over their heads and aggresive riders who push too hard. Sunday was good (for me) because even though I was slower I never felt in over my head and Simon is an experinced trail rider who gets that it's not a race (and everyone along seemed to have the same understanding) and the whole group were pretty decent riders. Even though I felt a little bad about being slow and need a push or three I never felt I needed to keep up.

To make it even harder single track can be dead easy (some of the stuff we did on Sunday could have been done easily on a Varadero) and Quad trails can be ugly as you all probably discovered on Thursday night. The Dempster Highway is gravel...clay and gravel, and was one of the toughest rides I have done because it was raining.

Once you know the lay of the land there are easier ways to do most of the trails around here and the group might need to split and rejoin as conditions, skill, bikes, tires etc allow.

It's nice to have a tight group of guys to ride with because you understand what you are in for on each ride. You know each others skill and machines and how to communicate about what you expect. However you limit new experiences and what happens when your buddies can't go with you?

Group dynamics are hard. I think when a group ride that is open invite you need to have people in the group who understand that someone is going to have to ride a little above their skill and someone else might have to ride differently then normal to accommodate the lowest common denominator (not meant of be demeaning). Those not willing to think of the group while riding are welcome not to ride with the group.
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dwayne screwed with this post 06-05-2009 at 03:17 PM
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:14 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lav1200
I think of DS as riding to McLean Creek, Crowsnest Pass or Waiparous, hitting the trails (not gravel roads) for a few hours then riding home.

Cheers,
Andy


+1

I know that the group I ride with is restricted (some by their machine and some by their skill). I don't think there will ever be a happy middle ground.

I think we should be expecting no more than quad trails and no less than dirt roads.

Pretty difficult to appeal to the broadest range and still keep everyone interested. As long as everyone is keen to push their own limits, I think that's all we can do.

We did have success with a group From Kelowna who would pick a route that had some varying difficulty levels, and those that could did and those that couldn't went around or waited patiently.
The only problem that kept arising of course is that the more adventurous ones usually had their trip cut short in a way that affected the group as a whole.
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:32 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lav1200
We had a little discussion about this last night after a pretty tough DS ride at McLeans (http://s571.photobucket.com/albums/ss157/advdog/McLEAN%20CREEK%20EXTREME%20DUAL%20SPORT/?albumview=slideshow). When you say "dual-sport ride", does that include off-road (quad trails & some single track) or is really a gravel road ride?
Oh yeah, can I come along on the next one of these? That looks like alot of fun!
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:47 PM   #201
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Dwayne... I wasn't implying anything about Sunday's ride (which I thought went really well, although you will probably kick my ass now at Corner Grass), but being the organizer of a few DS rides in the past I've seen a huge range in expectations. Last night was an interesting experience with group dynamics, but we all hung together and I bet all of us will be back to do it again next week (suckers for punishment).

We had a guy show up on our Cypress trip a couple of years back with zero experience riding on gravel and riding a dangerously overloaded bike. It did not end well, and he ended up having to turn back with 30 km of our start. I think he was expecting a "Dual Sport" ride to consist of mostly paved roads, and was a bit shocked to learn that he needed to travel at high speed on gravel for 500 km in order to make it to our destination before nightfall. That's my fault I guess as I didn't clearly explain the riding level required... made too many assumptions.

So I just wanted to know the expectation of the guys here when they think of a "dual sport" ride...
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Old 06-05-2009, 04:18 PM   #202
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I think the solution is for us to change our ride organization format. Correct me if I'm wrong but there isn't a consensus on which local forum to go to so we tend to go to neither (or at least I dont) and end up here.

So, in order to better plan our rides I suggest we start new threads here that include date, time and ride difficulty and route discussions. I know, I'm a detail geek but I think this'll really help wrt the comments above.

Also, I think all of the ride planning has diluted the reason for this thread which is introductions. I'm as guilty as anyone for getting us off track so I'll shut the fuck up now.

Wesley J
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Old 06-05-2009, 04:44 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Wesley J
Also, I think all of the ride planning has diluted the reason for this thread which is introductions. I'm as guilty as anyone for getting us off track so I'll shut the fuck up now.
Wesley J

Paging macuser to the white courtesy phone.............
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Old 06-05-2009, 04:52 PM   #204
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I thought Sunday went really well too, and it was a testement to everyone's "trail mentality" and experince. I had a gas.

I think that a ride that consits of a varitety of difficulties is reasonable (no matter quad/dirt road/single track). I call the less technical rides "adventure style" rides (more suitable for adventure bikes), say Powderface.

You will always have people who are newer to riding and will be suprised. They will be pushed and learn, but also need to know that they will not be left to fend for themselves. They can choose to come back for more or not. New riders riding with more experinced riders is a source of frustration and a great tradition.

At the end of the day riding is an individual acitivity that we sometimes share with others.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:16 PM   #205
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photobucket slide show

the trails in these photos are awesome. now i really want to sell my 525# DS, lol, bike. Has anyone tried to ride these trails on 650's like DR, KLR, 640ADV or are they too big as well. What i really want is my weetrom for some rides and a 250 for this type of riding, anyone need to hire an advertising photographer and help me live the dream?? anyone?

Andy, at about 4:20pm Thurs i think we passed each other just west of COP on hwy1. me going east, you going west.

anyone know this guy, he was riding N from Bragg at 4pm and headed to Cochrane. he was either injured or drunk. he was weaving all over the road, speed varied from 70km/h to 110km/h and drove across the roundabout. he was on some sort of touring BMW.

i'm just curious if the guy made it home alive.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:36 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by rockyrider
Andy, at about 4:20pm Thurs i think we passed each other just west of COP on hwy1. me going east, you going west.
Yes - that would have been me. Was on my out to meet the group at McLean Creek (hope my boss doesn't follow this forum or I'm screwed).
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:48 PM   #207
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I'll definitely be trying those trails on my XR650R! Working on the bike right now, hope to finally have it together this weekend, just rewound the stator for more power and worked out awesome!
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:26 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lav1200
Yes - that would have been me. Was on my out to meet the group at McLean Creek (hope my boss doesn't follow this forum or I'm screwed).
it was probably more like 6:20PM now that i think about it.
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:38 PM   #209
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Fellas, I hope I didn't scare anyone off on Sunday's ride, it's hard to try and lead a ride for every rider's abilities. I thought we all worked well together and helped those who needed it get through the tough shit. Many of the trails we were on that day are...I should say WERE very easy. Mother nature had thrown us a curve ball on a few of them with a ton of blowdown. Props to Dwayne for getting over all the logs, I think it proves just how good he is even on a 500 lb bike. I grew up riding with the philosophy you don't get better riding gravel roads, and you don't remember a ride unless it kicks the shit out of you. Not that I hate riding gravel, hell i'll ride anything. But i'm sure everyone will remember that ride and is a better rider for it. Hopefully I didn't piss anyone off...
We had a fairly advanced group so that's what I based the trail choices on that day, and if I lead another group, the majority rider level will dictate where we can go safely. There's not a lot of "easy" trails out there that aren't beat to crap from all the billy-big-rigs. Ride Fisher East at Maclean and you'll see what I mean.
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Old 06-05-2009, 10:52 PM   #210
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Right now I'm wishing I was on Sundays ride, but I guess I was working on my dual sport so that counts?
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