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Old 07-04-2011, 12:20 PM   #211
HighFive
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Originally Posted by ADVJake View Post
theres something seriously wrong with your mate's DRZ if it tops out at 80MPH.
The WRR is smoother, but i couldnt stand the lack of power personally.
That's kind of what I thought. I've discussed this with him many times....wondering if something was wrong with his particular DRZ. Its an '03 model. But, he doesn't seem to think so. And, I've never ridden a different one. So, its my only frame of reference. He keeps racking on the miles without issues. Has never had his DRZ in the shop, etc, etc.

So, I donno....

HF
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Old 07-04-2011, 12:51 PM   #212
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Just saw this thread... a couple years late but did the OP ever get a bike. It's hard to get into the argument of WRR vs KLX vs DRZ when your thinking about clipping the footpeg and going under a autocarrier - yikes!


I think it was Montessa in an earlier post who pointed out how much more power the DRZ has over the WRR - actually it looked like the big difference was torque.
I would just say that it's easier to get hp/torque out of the engine than to make the DRZ 5 speed handle everything. The KLX is the weakest engine but with the most room for improvement. The 351 puts it right on par with a stock DR400 but then its got a better tranny and much lighter.
HighFive your friends DRZ sounds odd - they are one of the smoothest singles for their size.

Is your R2 a 290?
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Old 07-04-2011, 02:03 PM   #213
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I've put about 2500 miles on my DRZ over the past few months and have been quite happy with it. For me the online resources and the price were just to good to pass up.

As many others have mentioned in this thread, if the DRZ had a 6 speed it'd be about as perfect as a bike can get. But since we're discussing modded KLX250's here I'll say I'm seriously considering a pumper carb, 436 kit, and maybe a gearing change up to 16/44 or 15/4x from 15/44 vs. changing bikes. Unlike some I find 75ish mph to be tolerable on the DRZ. Not fun but tolerable. I figure more power to pull taller gears and maybe then I won't be wishing for a 6 speed. Hopefully it'll have the torque to still idle around at just under 10mph but with the taller gears.
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Old 07-04-2011, 08:45 PM   #214
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Since this has come back to life, I just picked up a '06 drz400s with 20,000+ miles (never apart and runs good) for cheap. With plans to do the big bore,cams, carb... I'll still be way under the price of a new (or even nice) one of them 250s (that need mods/$ to run right) and have at least 15-20hp plus 180ccs on them. I'm old (63) and my fast/single track days are over so I'm little concerned about tight handling and jumps. I'll be tearing up some twisties, fire trails and just running errands so I want something that actually has some power and a hopped up 400 is about the minimum power I can feel safe on with normal traffic moving near 80mph to and from riding areas. I really do laugh everytime someone says their stock 250 can cruise at 75/80, H&!! my old stock evo road king couldn't cruise at 80 up hill, into a good wind or at any real altitude.
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Old 07-04-2011, 09:58 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl View Post
Just saw this thread... a couple years late but did the OP ever get a bike.
Is your R2 a 290?
Yes, it is now. But all my references in my post (above) were to the prior 250 motor size. The Athena 290 kit definitely improved the low-end torque. How much.....I'm finally about to see. My appointment for the Dyno run is scheduled for this coming Friday, 7/8.

However, the big bore didn't seem to add any top speed, per se. At least not significantly. But it does pull thru the gears faster and stronger. Can't say its worth the extra expense for the kit (yet). Depends what you are doing with the bike now, versus what you want to do with it later. Let's see what the numbers tell us.

Since I personally owned a KLX, I'll stick to that for comparison. The WRR frame geometry and quality is much better than the KLX. The two bikes handle so differently they feel like different categories....especially if you push them in the woods. The KLX feels very old school, so to speak. Its a slow handling bike, meaning slow to respond to inputs thru peg and bar pressure, for turning and traction. Not nearly as solid feeling as the WRR, which responds much quicker to inputs.

If I had to rate them for categories, I'd say the KLX is a better beginner bike to learn on...more forgiving. While the WRR is better for a more experienced rider that once to go farther, faster, and push the envelope. That's not to say either one is bad for anyone. They are both in fact very nice for everyone. Just designed at different times (era) and built for different performance purposes. IMO.

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Old 07-04-2011, 10:08 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by 0ldhippie View Post
I really do laugh everytime someone says their stock 250 can cruise at 75/80, H&!! my old stock evo road king couldn't cruise at 80 up hill, into a good wind or at any real altitude.
I don't recall ever referencing: cruising at 80 uphill...into a good wind...at altitude (not sure what "any real" means)....on my WR250R.

But it definitely cruises 75 mph, in style, all day, with reasonable comfort (if you can handle a stiff wind in your face), without taxing the motor one tiny bit....at 700 ft. elevation. At least mine did (as a 250) with the simple mods I made (airbox, pipe, and gearing). No problem, piece of cake. I never said mine was bone stock.

If you laugh at the possibility, then I can only assume you've never ridden it. What's funny is that your stock evo road king couldn't cruise 80 uphill, in a wind, at altitude. You said it, I didn't. I can't say because I've never ridden one.

Just sayin,

HF
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:11 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by HighFive View Post
But it definitely cruises 75 mph, in style, all day, with reasonable comfort (if you can handle a stiff wind in your face), without taxing the motor one tiny bit....at 700 ft. elevation.
I'm not knocking the WRR but am curious if we would define "cruises" the same way.
I was riding back from Riverside, California to Orange County on the 91 freeway with a friend on a WR250R and me on my KTM 690 enduro. Traffic was moderately heavy and doing about 80-85mph average.
The R2 had it pinned the whole time and was doing from between 77-83 mph as I was riding beside him. He was kind of in a scrunch getting that extra 1 or 2 mph. I could see his gauge most of the time which said 84-92 mph. My 690 speedo is spot on not to mention I've got a Garmin 60CSx right next to it.

The thing that stood out in that scenario was that at a literal 77-83 mph he was being passed by about 70% of the traffic which is just not safe. If he had of been going a literal 84-92mph he would have been faster than 90% of the traffic which I would consider much safer when riding what most of us hate, yet most of have to ride some times!

I've got a pretty much stock KLX250 as well. 2008 here in Malaysia which is like the 2006/7 body of the US with digital gauges. I'm amazed at how tough it is as when I have to use the freeway I sometimes just keep it pinned in top gear for a full gas tank. The top speed on gps is extrememly varied even when I'm going pretty much level. There's times I'll look down and its doing a 103 kph (64 mph) and times it will be doing 126 (about 78 mph). Those are pretty much its slowest and fastest top speeds on the level given at least 2 minutes of having it pinned on the level. I find it seems to like the early morning weather the best - ie goes the fastest.

Of course defining the word "cruises" here is totally subjective but I would say that my KLX can cruise all day at 60 mph and the reason I would say that is that 60 is not too bad in 5th gear and in 5th gear it can hold 60 climbing "gentle" hills that are normal for any ride. I wouldn't say that it could cruise at 64 even though that's its slowest level top speed as simple rolling hills can easily knock that down and slowing for a 40 mph corner it just takes too long to get back up to 64 mph to call it a comfortable cruising speed.

Interesting stats on Cycleworlds 0-60 mph times on the KLX250, WR250 and KTM 690 are 9.5 secs, 7.6 secs, and 3.3 secs respectively. I'm totally guessing on these next numbers, but I would say that would make the KLX faster than about 25% of the new cars on the road, the WRR faster than 60% of the cars on the road and the KTM faster than 99.9% of the cars on the road in 0-60. Top speed of course most cars are faster than the KTM 690.
When splitting lanes at a red light (dangerous to not do if you are in a country or state where it is the norm) that 0-60 or even 0-25 mph number is pretty important for safety. In that regards although there might only be 1.9 seconds between the KLX and WRR times I would say that makes the WRR much safer; just as I would say the KTM 690 is much safer than the WRR if you are stuck in fast moving freeway traffic.
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:24 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by ADVJake View Post
sounds like you are as well
I've had both the WRR and the DRZ. The DRZ blows away the WRR in the power department. theres something seriously wrong with your mate's DRZ if it tops out at 80MPH.
The WRR is smoother, but i couldnt stand the lack of power personally. the WRR just has no punch out of corners on the dirt roads, but it is fun in single track.

I dont have a car to trailer my bike to the tracks so i need some grunt on the highway to get there, and gravel roads to be abit of fun. The WRR is a snore on that stuff. Twist the gas on the DRZ and you feel acceleration. Do the same on the WRR and its a linear build up of acceleration that feels like a scooter

BTW this is with a DRZ400E, since noone buys the S here in Au.

I might own a WRR again in the future when they come down in price, they are really fun in the tight stuff. But for cross country stuff i'd have to point to the DRZ
Did you do any mods to your WRR?
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:54 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by HighFive View Post
I don't recall ever referencing: cruising at 80 uphill...into a good wind...at altitude (not sure what "any real" means)....on my WR250R.

But it definitely cruises 75 mph, in style, all day, with reasonable comfort (if you can handle a stiff wind in your face), without taxing the motor one tiny bit....at 700 ft. elevation. At least mine did (as a 250) with the simple mods I made (airbox, pipe, and gearing). No problem, piece of cake. I never said mine was bone stock.

If you laugh at the possibility, then I can only assume you've never ridden it. What's funny is that your stock evo road king couldn't cruise 80 uphill, in a wind, at altitude. You said it, I didn't. I can't say because I've never ridden one.

Just sayin,

HF
You are right, I have never ridden a wr250r but I have ridden a few 250 street bikes (my first new bike was a x6 hustler) including a ninja 250 (I would guess both are faster than than the wr) and a few 250 dirt bikes (both 2 and 4 stroke). In the dirt a 250 is fine (many, way more than fine) but we are talking on the road. It is true on the flat and level they can be flogged to 75/80 and a few mods/$ can really help but we sure have a different notion what is "cruises 75 mph, in style, all day, with reasonable comfort". I've been to Oklahoma and there are no hills or elevation (try pulling Donner summit on your wr). But if it works for you that is kool and there are plenty of folks just as happy as you with them 250s; I'm just not one of them. The lack of power makes me feel like a sitting duck and I'm always checking my mirrors. It's just scary for me. About the harley, a stock evo isn't a performer (something like 57hp) but with air filter, pipe and cam, can have tolerable power. I am just realistic about real performance and what I can tolerate. Your needs/tolerance may vary.

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Old 07-05-2011, 06:45 AM   #220
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Hhhhmmm....didn't know that about the evo. Interesting. I'd ask what its appeal is, but that's deviating to far from this Thread topic.

I've run Donner Pass....twice, if you're referring to the one near Donner Ski Ranch. Ridden National Observed Trials events there. Nice area.. But never on my WRR. Been all over Colorado mountains with it, though. Past 13,000 ft elevation. It pulled it fine, not at 75 mph granted, but it didn't struggle much. I wasn't in a race.

I have no problem admitting I much prefer my F800GS on the street. The "passing speed" is grand at 80 hp. You'll get know argument from me on that. I even like my F8 in the dirt.....Forest roads and two-tracks. But, the WRR obviously runs circles around it there. And, can still be surprisingly enjoyable "getting there".

I think the point of this Thread is probably focused on "which bike would you want, if you could only have one". More or less, that's how I interpret it. Of the 3 choices posed by the OP. I strongly vote for the WRR based on actual experience on each of those 3 bikes. Obviously.

Now, I'll probably go ride my F800 the rest of the week.

HF
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:04 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl View Post
I'm not knocking the WRR but am curious if we would define "cruises" the same way.
I was riding back from Riverside, California to Orange County on the 91 freeway with a friend on a WR250R and me on my KTM 690 enduro. Traffic was moderately heavy and doing about 80-85mph average.
The R2 had it pinned the whole time and was doing from between 77-83 mph as I was riding beside him. He was kind of in a scrunch getting that extra 1 or 2 mph. I could see his gauge most of the time which said 84-92 mph. My 690 speedo is spot on not to mention I've got a Garmin 60CSx right next to it.
Huh........you were running 80 mph thru traffic and close enough to your wingman that you could read his speedo gauge clearly..... Seriously?

Ho-chi-momma! Please don't ride next to me like that.

Now, regarding the bikes and cruising speed, both of them will pull higher speeds when geared lower. Play around with it until you find that magic combination. They both like high revs....producing a majority of there HP up top. The WRR even more so.

Its the opposite of what a lot of people think, especially those that don't have a lot of experience with riding and wrenching. So, a bone stock setup on either bike is unlikely to yield its peak performance....often by a long shot. And, changing the gearing is quite simple, fairly inexpensive, and completely reversible. If your friends bike was struggling at that pace, it was likely a bone stock setup. The WRR won't pull much of any slope or headwind in 6th gear at highway speeds, with stock gearing. Swapping to at least a 13/46 or lower gearing will solve that problem and let her stretch her legs on out. And, do so with reasonable comfort....meaning it doesn't get to bad on the vibes.

Whereas, the KLX will do similar.....not to the extent of the WRR....but with improved results. However, it generates a lot more vibes up top when doing so. Comparatively, the KLX motor is screaming and sounds like she can't take it long. But, she can....all day long, if you can stand the vibes. Both of these bikes can run for extended lengths with the throttle pinned to the stop, without any significant problem. At least mine can. I've done it multiple times on both. And I mean 2 - 3 hour stretches down the slab. The WRR is superior in performance and comfort in that scenario.

HF

p.s. I don't care what bike you buy, ride, or lust for. Really, I don't. I'm just sharing my actual experience on these two machines, of which, I have a LOT. Hope its helpful to someone. And yes, over the years, I've done a lot of mods to my WRR. You can follow many of them here: www.WRRdualsport.com
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:38 AM   #222
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I've had all three.
08 DRZ400S was a fantastic motorcycle. Only issue it vibrated like crazy and physically hurt. Maybe I wasn't standing on the pegs enough. Needs a 6th gear.



09 KLX250S is a sweet little bike . It felt more dirt worthy then the others but lacked the punch I didn't even know I wanted. It's a do everything motorcycle.Huge fun factor.




08 WR250X is for me the most enjoyable and the keeper of the bunch. It has the torque and pep I need, the capacity I desire, and the handling of a very versatile motorcycle. It makes me happy




All three require mods to improve overall performance and capacity. After playing, adjusting and modifying, IMHO the WR250 is the most enjoyable versatile bike and worth the effort.

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Old 07-05-2011, 03:00 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by madisonreid View Post
I've had all three.
08 DRZ400S was a fantastic motorcycle. Only issue it vibrated like crazy and physically hurt. Maybe I wasn't standing on the pegs enough. Needs a 6th gear.



09 KLX250S is a sweet little bike . It felt more dirt worthy then the others but lacked the punch I didn't even know I wanted. It's a do everything motorcycle.Huge fun factor.




08 WR250X is for me the most enjoyable and the keeper of the bunch. It has the torque and pep I need, the capacity I desire, and the handling of a very versatile motorcycle. It makes me happy




All three require mods to improve overall performance and capacity. After playing, adjusting and modifying, IMHO the WR250 is the most enjoyable versatile bike and worth the effort.

That is a waayy kool WR!!!
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Old 07-05-2011, 03:07 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by rickypanecatyl View Post
I'm not knocking the WRR but am curious if we would define "cruises" the same way.
I was riding back from Riverside, California to Orange County on the 91 freeway with a friend on a WR250R and me on my KTM 690 enduro. Traffic was moderately heavy and doing about 80-85mph average.
The R2 had it pinned the whole time and was doing from between 77-83 mph as I was riding beside him. He was kind of in a scrunch getting that extra 1 or 2 mph. I could see his gauge most of the time which said 84-92 mph. My 690 speedo is spot on not to mention I've got a Garmin 60CSx right next to it.

The thing that stood out in that scenario was that at a literal 77-83 mph he was being passed by about 70% of the traffic which is just not safe. If he had of been going a literal 84-92mph he would have been faster than 90% of the traffic which I would consider much safer when riding what most of us hate, yet most of have to ride some times!

I've got a pretty much stock KLX250 as well. 2008 here in Malaysia which is like the 2006/7 body of the US with digital gauges. I'm amazed at how tough it is as when I have to use the freeway I sometimes just keep it pinned in top gear for a full gas tank. The top speed on gps is extrememly varied even when I'm going pretty much level. There's times I'll look down and its doing a 103 kph (64 mph) and times it will be doing 126 (about 78 mph). Those are pretty much its slowest and fastest top speeds on the level given at least 2 minutes of having it pinned on the level. I find it seems to like the early morning weather the best - ie goes the fastest.

Of course defining the word "cruises" here is totally subjective but I would say that my KLX can cruise all day at 60 mph and the reason I would say that is that 60 is not too bad in 5th gear and in 5th gear it can hold 60 climbing "gentle" hills that are normal for any ride. I wouldn't say that it could cruise at 64 even though that's its slowest level top speed as simple rolling hills can easily knock that down and slowing for a 40 mph corner it just takes too long to get back up to 64 mph to call it a comfortable cruising speed.

Interesting stats on Cycleworlds 0-60 mph times on the KLX250, WR250 and KTM 690 are 9.5 secs, 7.6 secs, and 3.3 secs respectively. I'm totally guessing on these next numbers, but I would say that would make the KLX faster than about 25% of the new cars on the road, the WRR faster than 60% of the cars on the road and the KTM faster than 99.9% of the cars on the road in 0-60. Top speed of course most cars are faster than the KTM 690.
When splitting lanes at a red light (dangerous to not do if you are in a country or state where it is the norm) that 0-60 or even 0-25 mph number is pretty important for safety. In that regards although there might only be 1.9 seconds between the KLX and WRR times I would say that makes the WRR much safer; just as I would say the KTM 690 is much safer than the WRR if you are stuck in fast moving freeway traffic.

Meh, freeways are for cars. I don't even ride my 163 HP Busa on freeways. What's the point?
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Old 07-05-2011, 03:33 PM   #225
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Meh, freeways are for cars. I don't even ride my 163 HP Busa on freeways. What's the point?
Agreed. Happy to say my WR250X has yet to see a freeway in the 2 summers I've owned it. With a bike like the WRX, I'll stick to speeds around 60mph thank you. I have enough trouble reacting to stuff at that speed, and could never get comfortable riding a moto 80+ mph like one poster mentioned, let alone those types of speeds... in traffic! Call me a pussy, but if I wanna go 80+ mph I'll get in my cage.
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