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Old 02-20-2010, 09:27 AM   #2641
Chopperman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePikeman
Yes, they didn't grasp yet, that ease of use is one reason torrents may be preferred.
Sort of. The economics of it are a different subject. I'm not going to justify torrenting a game other than to say that the simple fact is that A) it happens and B) people will justify it. Sometimes torturously so.

I can only speak for myself. And the simple fact is that my time is more of a finite resource than my money is. I can afford to buy every game I want, I do not have time to play all of them, however. The old baby boomer part of me says "Fuck it. I dont have time for this monkey-shit." The younger gen-x part says "Fuck you for dicking with something I am supposedly buying" in either case, they dont get any money from me, someone who is standing there with cash in hand and not someone who promises they might spend money if they felt like it. My time is constrained enough that I wont even bother with downloading a crack or a cracked copy - I will just be doing something else. and along with it, my money and time goes elsewhere.

By virtue of my age, I am leading the pack of gamers. I am old enough to have had video gaming around in my formative years and had it grow with me. Thus my attitude may be in the minority now, but more and more will be in the same position as they follow me in age and position in life.
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Old 02-20-2010, 01:34 PM   #2642
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Originally Posted by Jeffy
Well, it's alive! It passed a 3hr leak test and booted to the Bios. It's humming along at 23*C. Spent an hour just deciding on where to mount everything. I didn't want to have to drill any new holes which limited my choices although I think it tuned out rather well. The return line is a bit long but I didn't want it to pass over the RAM so I ran it the long way round. Still need to transfer over some stuff from the old PC. Gotta dig out the old 8800 GT 320 for it. Windows 7 is going to take some time getting used to it. It's like using OS X.

That looks great. My build is pretty embarrassing by comparison. I didn't bother cleaning up the wiring and it's a MESS.
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Old 02-20-2010, 01:46 PM   #2643
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Ive been a console gamer for 30 years and I never understood why people play on computers verus consoles, especially with the newer systems. Great graphics on 47inch tvs verus a computer screen. Ive heard high end gaming computers are very expensive. Using a controller verus a keyboard. What Iam I missing. Enlighten me.
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Old 02-20-2010, 02:33 PM   #2644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyg
Ive been a console gamer for 30 years and I never understood why people play on computers verus consoles, especially with the newer systems. Great graphics on 47inch tvs verus a computer screen. Ive heard high end gaming computers are very expensive. Using a controller verus a keyboard. What Iam I missing. Enlighten me.
I think it has something to do with the fact that games on PC can be made to look much better than they do on consoles. There's also a lot more game developers can put into a game on PC because if your machine can't run it: "Too bad, go find some other game."

I've noticed a lot of snobbery with many PC gamers, but when they have to spend as money as they do to play all the latest games, I don't fault them for being snobs.

Personally, I like not having to buy the latest and greatest to play that new game, I can just buy the game, stick it in my x360, and play.

A PC gamer needs to put in their .02 without being condescending towards "lowly" console gamers.
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Old 02-20-2010, 02:44 PM   #2645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyg
Ive been a console gamer for 30 years and I never understood why people play on computers verus consoles, especially with the newer systems. Great graphics on 47inch tvs verus a computer screen. Ive heard high end gaming computers are very expensive. Using a controller verus a keyboard. What Iam I missing. Enlighten me.

You arent missing anything. it is a matter of taste, so why should I convince you of anything? I can't and so I wont. All I can do is note the ways in which I see things and why I prefer some if not most games on the PC

I dont have a clear preference. some games I enjoy on the console - but that is only because they are there,available and sometimes not available on pc at all.

cost is a rat-hole. One man's expensive system is another man's cheap junk. 47 inch TV runs about a grand. console about 300. you have just hit 75% of the cost of my current system before buying any games and my PC serves me as far more than an entertainment system. Sure, I could drop 10G on a PC but it isnt going to get me much more than bragging rights. And that can be an end in and of itself. Speaking of building...I lost the power supply recently. the next day I had a new one instaled and I was back running again. console is a swap for new console or wait for the repair depot.

Playing the games - depending onthe game, the PC (imo) offers much more precise control. There is a reason why most console FPS games have an auto-aim or target lock feature. Console controls have to do an awful lot with very little. Menu navigation is a bitch. Thus with a full KB you can issue far more complex commands very quickly.

Longevity of games - modding an existing game is a big part of pc games. And it extends the life of the game a long long ways.

With all that said - PC gaming is largely on the way out for most "pro" game developers. For many of those reasons I list above, they dont like pcs much. As far as they are concerned, I'm not doing my part if I am not dropping another 60 bones on a new game and am still fucking around with fallout 3 mods. But there are miles of ink on the net debating just that very subject.
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Old 02-20-2010, 02:56 PM   #2646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopperman
There is a reason why most console FPS games have an auto-aim or target lock feature. Console controls have to do an awful lot with very little. Menu navigation is a bitch.
Also the reason why jumping in FPS-es has been relegated from an important part of the gameplay to an "also featuring". And why shooters nowadays are slow and lame, as opposed to fast and brutal, like the ones from the glory days (the first Aliens vs. Predator, especially as Marine, anyone?).
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Old 02-20-2010, 03:05 PM   #2647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyg
Ive been a console gamer for 30 years and I never understood why people play on computers verus consoles, especially with the newer systems. Great graphics on 47inch tvs verus a computer screen. Ive heard high end gaming computers are very expensive. Using a controller verus a keyboard. What Iam I missing. Enlighten me.
IMO, shooters are way the hell better with a keyboard/mouse combo than with a console controller's analog stick. You can just aim and fire much faster and more accurately. I half suspect that the sluggishness of console controls for aiming are a big part of why a lot of recent games have mechanics like 'bullet time' that let you engage enemies without having to aim in real time.

And yeah, that 47 inch TV is way bigger than most computer screens, but it has to be because you're sitting much further away from it. The actual resolution on a computer screen can be much higher, and if you're willing to spend the money on hardware, you can fill that resolution with high-quality and high-framerate graphics.

All that said, 95% of my gaming over the past several years has been on a console. I'm not serious enough about it to spend money on desktop PC devoted to gaming.
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Old 02-20-2010, 06:00 PM   #2648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oznerol
IMO, shooters are way the hell better with a keyboard/mouse combo than with a console controller's analog stick. You can just aim and fire much faster and more accurately. I half suspect that the sluggishness of console controls for aiming are a big part of why a lot of recent games have mechanics like 'bullet time' that let you engage enemies without having to aim in real time.

And yeah, that 47 inch TV is way bigger than most computer screens, but it has to be because you're sitting much further away from it. The actual resolution on a computer screen can be much higher, and if you're willing to spend the money on hardware, you can fill that resolution with high-quality and high-framerate graphics.

All that said, 95% of my gaming over the past several years has been on a console. I'm not serious enough about it to spend money on desktop PC devoted to gaming.
That right there is one of the great points of the PC. I suck hardcore with a controller, but give me a mouse and keyboard? I'll tear that game up.
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Old 02-20-2010, 06:09 PM   #2649
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Except for a "run and jump" Mario like game, I can't think of anything I'd rather play with a console controller. People that play FPS games with them? :nuts

I think PC graphics look better, and the keyboard/mouse combination is way more natural for me than a console. Now, back when I had a 2600, we didn't know better. Life was never the same for me after I got hold of an Apple II.

About the only console that is at all engaging for me is the Wii, and only because of the uniqueness. I was playing Wii Resort at my Mom's house a few weeks ago, and had a blast. Not like diving in to Half Life on the PC, but fun in a very different way.
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Old 02-20-2010, 06:26 PM   #2650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spagthorpe
Except for a "run and jump" Mario like game, I can't think of anything I'd rather play with a console controller. People that play FPS games with them? :nuts

I think PC graphics look better, and the keyboard/mouse combination is way more natural for me than a console. Now, back when I had a 2600, we didn't know better. Life was never the same for me after I got hold of an Apple II.

About the only console that is at all engaging for me is the Wii, and only because of the uniqueness. I was playing Wii Resort at my Mom's house a few weeks ago, and had a blast. Not like diving in to Half Life on the PC, but fun in a very different way.
Then you get guy's setting up macros so they can aim then click one button and the guy will jump, dive and shoot and have 90% accuracy.

I still remember seeing cheats on Delta Force where your guy would jump 1000ft in the air and they would play liek the were on the ground.

There are a lot of hacks for MW2 as well since there are no dedicated servers to help keep everyone honest.
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Old 02-20-2010, 06:40 PM   #2651
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Originally Posted by Jeffy
Then you get guy's setting up macros so they can aim then click one button and the guy will jump, dive and shoot and have 90% accuracy.

I still remember seeing cheats on Delta Force where your guy would jump 1000ft in the air and they would play liek the were on the ground.

There are a lot of hacks for MW2 as well since there are no dedicated servers to help keep everyone honest.

Probably why I play solo games. I got out of online play with Unreal Tournament. It was basically unplayable most of the time because I'm not a 14-year old twitch monkey, hopped up on energy drinks and play the game 16 hours a day. I just wanted something that was some occasional fun a few nights a week, and I would usually just get offline pissed. I'm fine with the few things I've played in recent years.

I don't have anything that will run more than nethack right now, so I do without, but I'll probably put a new i7 machine together in a few months.
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Old 02-20-2010, 07:06 PM   #2652
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I see pc gamers points, are far as fps shooters go I feel my ps3 responds pretty quick. are there any good 3rd person military shooters for pcs? My favorite game is socom confrontation. The new battlefield is going to be my next purchase, thanks for answering my questions guys.
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Old 02-21-2010, 12:24 AM   #2653
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One big advantage for PC games is that the new titles are always cheaper right off the bat. And, within a year, the price will be even cheaper for the PC version while the console version is still full price. Plus you have a wider choice of controllers.
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Old 02-21-2010, 09:24 AM   #2654
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Originally Posted by Oznerol
I'm not serious enough about it to spend money on desktop PC devoted to gaming.
IF the pc is only used for gaming then it is dedicated. Rarely are PCs used solely for entertainment. For many, like me, in which computing is a profession, a higher end PC is a must. Like a mechanic with thousands of dollars in high end tools who uses them to assemble the kids swingset. A mechanic friend looked at my rig and was taking a similar attitude. I noted "That, right there, is my Snap-on toolbox full of tools." Now I certainly dont need a high end graphics card or speakers. But the rest - big drives, hefty cpu, lots of ram, multiple monitors - I use for a lot of other stuff. So essentially the only "gaming" part of it is the 150 bucks I spent on the video card and the other 150 I spent on speakers.

That said - I think the big budget PC games are going to fall a lot further. The console environment is much more controlled and Apple-like from the game/video/etc producers perspective. BUT I think there will be a lot of interesting "indy" game efforts for PC systems and games with more complex interactions like collaboration and such.


In the end I dont think there is a "better" or "best". it is simply a matter of personal preference. and it is, after all, your entertainment. So go with what you enjoy and to hell with what anyone else thinks
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Old 02-21-2010, 11:14 AM   #2655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopperman
IF the pc is only used for gaming then it is dedicated. Rarely are PCs used solely for entertainment.
Agreed.

But I already have (and prefer) a laptop for all my other computing, including the software development work that is my profession. So for me a gaming PC would effectively be a dedicated machine, because I sure as hell don't want to game on my laptop. The ergonomics would suck for gaming, and the performance isn't there and can't easily be added the way it might with a desktop.

(As a side note: My girlfriend has a 'gaming laptop', and I think it's the worst of both worlds: It's huge and heavy, not much fun to lug around or to actually place on your lap, but at the same time it's still down on performance and gaming ergonomics compared to a desktop. When she was shopping for the thing I offered to go 50/50 with her on a high-performance desktop. She declined, so now we've got this big hot brick of a machine that is used only for occasional web surfing (when my MacBook is already in use) or lightweight puzzle games, and she plays most of her 'serious' games on the Xbox.)

I don't think I'm unusual in preferring the convenience and portability of the laptop for general computing; I believe laptop sales are greater than desktop sales these days. (My mom just sent an excited email to the family list about how she and dad had gotten their first laptop and had set up wireless and DSL, and she was writing to us all from the couch.) I suspect that the move from desktops to laptops are another reason that PC gaming is in decline.
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