ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Beasts
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-03-2009, 09:47 PM   #61
fastkevin
n00b
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Oddometer: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat0020
Any motorcycle can be a dual sport, it's up to the rider to take it through the courses.

if you like picking up a heavier moto like a V-strom or GS, they can be taken anywhere a 400cc enduro could.
I'm gonna vote "No" on this one. I remember seeing a guy in T-shirt and jeans pretty much clean everyone's clock riding a DRZ at the new ( now old) Saddleback MX track. I think he was a pro, dressing that way to make everyone feel even more foolish, but the point being, a V-Strom would break in various places if forced to do any "normal" jumps or a whoop section. It's a street bike, that because of it's extra travel, and the ability to wear more "off-road" oriented tires, a gravel road or even your run-of-the-mill fire road would be within it's AO. If you were to use the term "Off-road" by how most people would define it, a V-Strom or even the better Versys wouldn't do well if repeatedly exposed to this kind of riding. One problem I could see creeping up is oil starvation. Modern off-road bikes have "rooms" built into their oil pans, to keep the crank circulating in oil even if the bike is off it's vertical axis. This is because the bike is intended to be near horizontal in some turning situations, as well as when it's jumped. Not too mention the problems you encounter with keeping the oil where it should be when your blasting through the whoops. Then you have the chassis and suspension that isn't built with the strength to handle this environment.
The DRZs' is.
fastkevin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2009, 11:25 PM   #62
D.T.
One wheel wonder...
 
D.T.'s Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Moneyapolis, MN
Oddometer: 10,044
I think a true "dual sport" is a bike you can ride on a MX track and around town easily without getting bashed by your buddies @ the track and the cops in town.

I put Avon Distansia's on my XT because I don't ride off road as much as I'd like and the suspension is pretty lousy for the MX track.

A new KTM EXC is the definition of dual sport to me (dirt bike with lights, signals and plate).
__________________
Quote:
Originally posted by burgerking So?
Holland is about the most expensive country in Europe when it comes to bikes and fuel..Stop whining and go riding It's just money and you only live once...
D.T. is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 08:41 AM   #63
Cat0020
El cheapo
 
Cat0020's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: NW of Philly, Hoboken, Brooklyn, Jamaica NY.
Oddometer: 5,441
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlMalone
I have a feeling you've never been on nasty single track, cause if you had ever ridden a dirt bike on just Moderate difficult trails which I do almost every weekend you would have a clue. I'm a pretty experienced dirt rider and anybody else who is, finds what you say ridiculous. You've taken on some very skew reality of bikes, could a person in their backyard make a rocket that could go to mars, I guess nothing is impossible. In the realm of reality that most of us choose to live our lives in, both the possibilities of me making a rocket to go to mars and taking a Vstrom on a black diamond trial and living to see tomorrow are in the same reality.
Keep your feelings to yourself and stick with the facts, your feeling about me has nothing to do with the fact that riding skill can compensate for using inadequate machines.

More than often human factor is what turns stupidity into heroism.

WTF does a rocket going to Mars has to do with V-Storm on a dual sport ride?

You said it yourself:

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlMalone
I guess nothing is impossible.
__________________
Mankind is doomed & Physics do not lie
Chances favor the prepared mind.
Cat0020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 12:29 PM   #64
markk53
jack of all trades...
 
markk53's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Delaware Ohio
Oddometer: 8,008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat0020
Keep your feelings to yourself and stick with the facts, your feeling about me has nothing to do with the fact that riding skill can compensate for using inadequate machines.

More than often human factor is what turns stupidity into heroism.

WTF does a rocket going to Mars has to do with V-Storm on a dual sport ride?

You said it yourself:

Tell that line to the guy who'd try to ride a streetbike in off road races. Guys tried running SL350 Honda "enduro" bikes back in the 70s... results not always too pretty. Fact is they had a better chance than that of a V-Strom in current off road racing. The skilled rider would refuse to ride where the bike puts them in danger. I know I've been places I wouldn't take either a V-Strom OR my KLX, riding a real off roader.

As for a V-Strom on a dual sport ride, if it was like some I've been on it would do fine most of the time and struggle with some of the rest, but would make it with an average rider. We like to make it fun, not disillusioning. As for the AMA Dualsport rides, it might be another story. I've heard some stories about those. The AMA Adventure rides are for the big bikes and guys out for a cruise, like some of us.
__________________
Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

Mark - klx678
95 KLX650C w/Vulcan piston bigbore, Now an 09 KLX250S, selling my 90 Zephyr 550
markk53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 02:31 PM   #65
950SMulate
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Dirty oil country
Oddometer: 33
What planet are some of you people from????
__________________
SV1000STomper
950SMulate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 07:19 PM   #66
ADVJake
***** dweller
 
ADVJake's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Oddometer: 4,338
Ground clearance, weight, and wheel diameter.
The three factors that stop a bike like the v-strom going places a "dual sport" can go.

The only current v-twins that can be classed as a dual sport is the KTM 950 Adventures, and Super enduros.

They have dirt bike wheel diameters, dirt bike ground clearance, and only suffer in weight. keep them moving and you dont feel the weight.

A v-strom will crack a case / exhaust, or dent a rim before it will go the places a true dual sport will go.

So, No, the V-strom is not a dual sport. Its a road bike. Suzuki should change it on their website & advertisements.
__________________
"And some guy said, let there be filtering, and we filtered and we saw that it was good, and hours became minutes..."
ADVJake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 07:49 PM   #67
achesley
Old Motorcyclist
 
achesley's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Jennings, Louisiana
Oddometer: 3,419
it all depends on YOU! When I started riding bikes, there was no division. A bike was a bike was a bike. You just went as far as you could with what you had. Some could go further than others. Called rider skill. An unskilled rider can have the one off motorX bike converted to what's called a Dual Sporty now days. And , can't follow a guy on a dressed out Harley. The guy on the Harley would probably just have a ball on a KLR or Katoom or what ever. I know I did when I took a DR350SE on the same trails and roads I was running an R11GSA on just weeks before.

Don't get caught up on this fad. Just go have fun on what ever your on.

I now have a `1250 Bandit and still do lots of roads and trails I did on my R11GSA, KLR, DR350, DRZ400SE, just not al lot of fun and lots slower. 'Course, you gotta forget the mud and stuff on a heavy bike. I about quit doing that anyway at my age. '
__________________

A '00 KLR 650 39,000 miles, A '07 1250S 77,000 actual, A '03 5.3L Chevy Truck 76,000 + '43 style dude , Simper Fi ;-)
achesley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 08:06 PM   #68
ADVJake
***** dweller
 
ADVJake's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Oddometer: 4,338
Rider skill is not a factor.

You cannot ride a machine up a large rock ledge with lack of ground clearance & wheel diameter, suspension travel.
The machine simply is not capable of doing so. The only circumstances where it would be possible, is if you had traction to lift the front wheel high and just use the rear wheel to go up. The Vstrom is not very tractable in dirt, i have yet to see anyone do a wheelie in loose dirt on a v-strom.

You guys must have some real easy "offroad" if you can ride the same stuff on a DR350 as a R1150GS.
__________________
"And some guy said, let there be filtering, and we filtered and we saw that it was good, and hours became minutes..."
ADVJake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 09:01 PM   #69
Thumpercrazee
Beastly Adventurer
 
Thumpercrazee's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Louisiana, USA
Oddometer: 1,306
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVJake
Ground clearance, weight, and wheel diameter.
The three factors that stop a bike like the v-strom going places a "dual sport" can go.

The only current v-twins that can be classed as a dual sport is the KTM 950 Adventures, and Super enduros.

They have dirt bike wheel diameters, dirt bike ground clearance, and only suffer in weight. keep them moving and you dont feel the weight.

A v-strom will crack a case / exhaust, or dent a rim before it will go the places a true dual sport will go.

So, No, the V-strom is not a dual sport. Its a road bike. Suzuki should change it on their website & advertisements.


So I guess by your definition BMW should also change their concepts about the GS's. Sorry but I think you are missing a valuable point about Dual Sports.
Their intent was to allow the rider to ride on most all types of road surfaces.
They were not intended to be MX specialists, nor full racing enduro class machines. They were originally intended to be a do-it-all styled machine which allows the rider to explore his/her enviornment.

I prefer to ride long distances on my V-Strom on dirt or pavement because it is comfortable, reliable, and can carry luggage sufficient for a long period of riding. Altho' it has been airborne, I won't do it with luggage, nor with my wife on board. But as to being capable, I feel it has much more versatility than the KTM Super enduro. Let your spouse ride for a five + day trip on the SE and see how much she wants to travel with you again.
Dual sporting does not imply a super light weight bike, making high jumps, nor any of the other aspects we attribute to the lightweight racing bikes. I have never seen a WR, a KTM ***exc, or a CRF, DRZ, or anything else in this category with large panniers and two riders.
How many of those would you want to travel 600 miles a day on? Even 250-300 miles on a dirt road might be a bit tough on the rider.
Remember that a Yamaha 750 Tenere won the Dakar rally 9 years in a row and it was a twin, heavy, and altho' technology was not what it is today, it was very successful in off road ability.

Just because it is orange, it isn't absolutely the best. KTM makes a good bike as do many other manufacturers. Why is it necessary to quibble over a name.

The Strom has not the clearance I would like, nor the wire rims I would prefer for impact absorbing, but to identify it as strictly a street bike is a great injustice. You have your opinion as do I. But does a name really matter?

TC
__________________
Good judgment comes from bad experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.

2007 Star Stratoliner
2004 V-Strom 1000
Thumpercrazee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 09:24 PM   #70
tslewisz
Beastly Adventurer
 
tslewisz's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Bloomington, IL
Oddometer: 2,354
Honestly, I don't know why I'm even posting. I thought we all knew there are generically three classes of dual sports:

1) Plated dirt bikes (the BEST in the gnarly stuff, sucks on pavement, lots of maintenance per mile)
2) 300+pound thumpers (tolerable in tight stuff but a lot of work, a little slabbing is okay, will carry some stuff, and you can do a week long trip without running the valves)
3) Long-travel multi's (gobble up the slab, suck on single-track, tolerable 2-up along with luggage for mama, perfect for two-lane asphalt and gravel roads)

Sure, every bike may not fit into one of my "whole number" niches. A KTM 950 SE might be a 2.4-2.6. A new WR250R might be a 1.9, a DR or KLR a 2.3-ish. Who cares. Ride your ride. Figure out what works for you, for what you want to do.
tslewisz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 09:47 PM   #71
Klay
dreaming adventurer
 
Klay's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: right here on my thermarest
Oddometer: 100,029
We are from outer space.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 950SMulate
What planet are some of you people from????
Klay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 11:21 PM   #72
ADVJake
***** dweller
 
ADVJake's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Oddometer: 4,338
A dual sport is a bike that can do both types of riding well, but not exceptionally.
50/50.
The v-strom is not a 50/50. Its more like 80% road 20% offroad, or less.

Same with the GS. they are in the adventure tourer category.

A dual sport to me is:

DR650, XR650L, XR650R, DRZ400, KTM 950s, WR250R

Adventure tourers are:

BMW R1200GS, V-strom, Tiger, Versys, Buell Ulysses and more.

Pure dirt bikes are:

WR450, KTM 450/525EXC, CRF450X
__________________
"And some guy said, let there be filtering, and we filtered and we saw that it was good, and hours became minutes..."
ADVJake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2009, 05:49 AM   #73
achesley
Old Motorcyclist
 
achesley's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Jennings, Louisiana
Oddometer: 3,419
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVJake
A dual sport is a bike that can do both types of riding well, but not exceptionally.
50/50.
The v-strom is not a 50/50. Its more like 80% road 20% offroad, or less.

Same with the GS. they are in the adventure tourer category.

A dual sport to me is:

DR650, XR650L, XR650R, DRZ400, KTM 950s, WR250R

Adventure tourers are:

BMW R1200GS, V-strom, Tiger, Versys, Buell Ulysses and more.

Pure dirt bikes are:

WR450, KTM 450/525EXC, CRF450X

Aw man, you forgot a very important world traveling bike here.

KLR!!!
__________________

A '00 KLR 650 39,000 miles, A '07 1250S 77,000 actual, A '03 5.3L Chevy Truck 76,000 + '43 style dude , Simper Fi ;-)
achesley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2009, 06:13 AM   #74
Rick West
Function not Farkles
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Out West For Awhile
Oddometer: 1,222
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVJake
A dual sport is a bike that can do both types of riding well, but not exceptionally.
50/50.
The v-strom is not a 50/50. Its more like 100% road.

The GS. it owns the adventure tourer category.

A dual sport to me is:

DR650, XR650L, XR650R, DRZ400, KTM 950s, WR250R 800GS

Adventure tourers are:

BMW R1200GS

Street bikes are:

V-strom, Tiger, Versys, Buell Ulysses and more.

Pure dirt bikes are:

WR450, KTM 450/525EXC, CRF450X
Fixed
Rick West is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2009, 07:03 AM   #75
mr_guns
Look Mom no hands!
 
mr_guns's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Oddometer: 742
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianjonesphoto
I don't know why but I hate the term adventure touring. Isn't the reason we all ride bikes regardless of type is for the "adventure"? It almost become a marketing word like extreme.

The GS and Stroms are not true dual sports by any means. They are road bikes, not street bikes but ROAD bikes. Pavement, Gravel ROADs, Forest service ROADs, old abondoned 2-track ROADs.

We all know this class of bike is analogous to SUV's.

At one end you have the off road based Jeep Charokee with it's solid front axel (KTM 950) that will get you most anywhere and is designed for better performace off the pavement.

Then there's the Chevy Tahoe (GS or V-Strom) a hiway based design, but rugged enought to supprise many people when it is taken off the pavement.

Then there's the cross overs with thier car based chassis and Suburus (Versys, Uly, Multistrada) that will get by on a gravel road, but as soon as you start seeing ruts and need the properties of a real truck it's time to turn around.

But at the end of it all It's the oporator that makes the difference. I've seen Suburus in some crazy spots and we all know only .05% of all Hummers sold actually leave the pavement.

Best reply I've seen. You nailed it
__________________
14 R1200GSA (Betsy)
11 Beta RS-450
09 V-STROM 1000 (4 Sale)
06 DRZ-400S (4 sale soon)
08 Piaggio MP3
mr_guns is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 05:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014