ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Beasts
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-24-2009, 05:07 AM   #76
garandman
Beastly Adventurer
 
garandman's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Oddometer: 5,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick West
A dual sport is a bike that can do both types of riding well, but not exceptionally.
50/50.
The v-strom is not a 50/50. Its more like 100% road.

The GS. it owns the adventure tourer category.

A dual sport to me is:

DR650, XR650L, XR650R, DRZ400, KTM 950s, WR250R

Adventure tourers are:

BMW F800GS, KTM 950 Adventure

Street bikes with Adventure theme are:

BMW R1200GS, Buell Ulysses, Suzuki DL650 V-Strom, Triumph Scrambler.

Pure dirt bikes are:

WR450, KTM 450/525EXC, CRF450X


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick West
Fixed
Back at ya.

GS has a whopping 0.4" more ground clearance than the V-Strom, and is 65-100 lbs more on the same wheels/tires. No wonder yall travel in packs.
__________________
2012 WR250R, 2009 TW200, 2008 Tiger 1050 ABS, 2008 CRF100F

“The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without.” ― Dwight D. Eisenhower
garandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2009, 05:45 AM   #77
Rick West
Function not Farkles
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Out West For Awhile
Oddometer: 1,222
Quote:
Originally Posted by garandman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick West
A dual sport is a bike that can do both types of riding well, but not exceptionally.
50/50.
The v-strom is not a 50/50. Its more like 100% road.

The GS. it owns the adventure tourer category.

A dual sport to me is:

DR650, XR650L, XR650R, DRZ400, KTM 950s, WR250R

Adventure tourers are:

BMW F800GS, KTM 950 Adventure

Street bikes with Adventure theme are:

BMW R1200GS, Buell Ulysses, Suzuki DL650 V-Strom, Triumph Scrambler.

Pure dirt bikes are:

WR450, KTM 450/525EXC, CRF450X


Back at ya.

GS has a whopping 0.4" more ground clearance than the V-Strom, and is 65-100 lbs more on the same wheels/tires. No wonder yall travel in packs.

Sorry I can't play anymore. I will be if I do.

You win. V-Stroms are dual sports.
Rick West is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2009, 10:08 AM   #78
TinyBear
Studly Adventurer
 
TinyBear's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Oddometer: 530
I consider the V-Stroms more of a touring bike than anything else. Having owned a 2007 650 V-Strom as my last bike i gotta say it was a LOUSY tool for off road or even gravel roads. I did take the bike down a few quad trails when i owned it and did ok (only had one get off due to some very deep mud and worn out stock tires). Granted i have limited off road riding experiance but i DO know that my current CRUISER is more stable and planted on dirt and gravel roads and is ALOT easier to manage even when the roads end.

ON a deep gravel road the stroms front end would dance alll over the place. Now in its defence if you just sat back and relaxed and just kinda guided the dance you were fine and good to go. But that same road on my cruiser feels much more planted it just rolls over everything and ya never get any shake in the bars.

The V-Strom did have much more ground clearnce and thuse a smoother ride off road and it was pretty good when crossing water (something im not supid enuff yet to do with a cruiser) but i would hardly call that a reason to badge the bike as a duel sport.

Hell my old 650cc V-Star had been to more places off the beaten paths than many true duel sports been so maybe Yamaha should re badge em LOL.
TinyBear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2009, 11:08 AM   #79
garandman
Beastly Adventurer
 
garandman's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Oddometer: 5,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick West
Sorry I can't play anymore. I will be if I do.

You win. V-Stroms are dual sports.
Naw, "Adventure" bikes are too f'n heavy to be dual sports.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyBear
I consider the V-Stroms more of a touring bike than anything else. Having owned a 2007 650 V-Strom as my last bike i gotta say it was a LOUSY tool for off road or even gravel roads. I did take the bike down a few quad trails when i owned it and did ok (only had one get off due to some very deep mud and worn out stock tires). Granted i have limited off road riding experiance but i DO know that my current CRUISER is more stable and planted on dirt and gravel roads and is ALOT easier to manage even when the roads end.//
Guess we will both have to leave that to better riders.


__________________
2012 WR250R, 2009 TW200, 2008 Tiger 1050 ABS, 2008 CRF100F

“The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without.” ― Dwight D. Eisenhower
garandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2009, 11:13 AM   #80
Reposado1800
Juicy J fan!
 
Reposado1800's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: 5th and Main
Oddometer: 5,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by garandman
Naw, "Adventure" bikes are too f'n heavy to be dual sports.

Guess we will both have to leave that to better riders.


I love you sigline.
__________________
Hate gets you nowhere.
Tequila is a weapon of mass destruction.
Reposado1800 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2009, 11:54 AM   #81
Garry
Old and In The Way
 
Garry's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2005
Location: Murrysville, PA
Oddometer: 1,173
My take:

Street Bikes - suitable for all PAVED roads. Typically 4-5" of suspension travel, with 17" wheels. Bikes like the Ulysses and Versys with slightly longer travel suspension and 17" front wheel are still street bikes, but perhaps better at handling beat-up nasty pavement than the rest. Of course you can ride a street bike on a well-maintained dirt road, but the 17" front wheel is a handicap on loose surfaces (gravel, sand, etc).

Adventure Bikes - suitable for ALL roads, paved or not. Usually 6-8" suspension travel with a 19" front wheel (sometimes 21"). A good rider can these bikes some gnarly places, but think where a car-based SUV can go. I would put the VStrom, BMW GS and KTM Adv in this category.

Dual-Sports - basically street-legal single cylinder trail bikes (not race bikes). Long travel suspension. Not as highly tuned as pure dirt/race bikes. Ride it across town to the MX track or singletrack, play for the day, ride it back home. The KTM EXC are basically street-legal race bikes, but I'm primarily thinking DR/DRZ, XRL, KLR, etc here.

Dirt Bikes - non-street legal, lightweight, highly tuned race bikes for either MX or cross-country.
__________________
2007 KTM 950 SM-R
2009 KTM 530 EXC
http://www.MotoRoads.net
Garry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 02:09 AM   #82
Kommando
Grumpy Young Man
 
Kommando's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Spacecoaster FL
Oddometer: 6,470
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtackett
First of all, if space and $ allowed I'd have one of every type bike in my garage. I've enjoyed riding street, mx, woods, trials, .....


That being said, I saw on Suzuki's website the V-Strom is considered a Dual Sport?

"Dual" being a cross between the street and what?

Maybe they have a little more suspension than most street bikes, but how are they any different than other street bikes?

I've seen pictures of guys trying to ride them off-road, but why???

Not trying to knock another guys favorite ride, just didn't see the "dual sport' part of it.

Greg T.
I'm guessing that Suzuki just didn't want to put in the extra work on their website to add an "Adventure" or "ADV Touring" section.

As for differences, the DLs DO have more travel and clearance than most streetbikes. They also run a taller front wheel and a wider-ratio gearbox. I'm guessing that the stock exhaust also has a USFS-approved spark-arrestor.

All that said, there are varying degrees of "dualsporting", and people generally run what they brung. There are people who consider/ride the XR650R as a dualsport, but in this country it isn't...technically. It's a dirtbike. Does that mean that everybody who's ridden their plated XRR on the road, for more than just linking trails, is a misguided fool? What about the paint-shaker thumper "dualsports" with hardly any oil capacity? How are they any different from any other plated dirtbike? I wouldn't ride most of them across town (Chicago's a big town), let alone as far as I ride some non-touring streetbikes on the slab. Some of these "dualsports" don't even have passenger pegs or seating, yet they're lumped into the "DS" category.
Kommando is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 02:31 AM   #83
Threewheelbonnie
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Oddometer: 942
I just wasted ten minutes of my life reading 6-pages about if a bike is an Adventure-Sports-Tourer or a Sports-Adventure-Tourer

It's marketing, so Suzuki have similar categories to BMW etc. Triumph do the same thing but stick Classic in front of half the bikes as well

Ted Simon rode round the world, before a lot of paved roads on a Triumph you'd call a classic, standard or tourer. The Mondo-Enduro guys used what you'd call trail bikes. I've no idea what Dual-sport is. Who do you compete against in this "sport"?

There are three factors that set how a bike will perform on a journey. In order: The rider, the tyres, the bike. There are riders who'll take a Goldwing where Clayjar went (or a Ural like the one in the background). There are other's who'll fall off an XT225 every 30 yards, but get back on and ride 600 mile days. Knobblies on the rough stuff and fat 16-inchers on the tarmac just magnify the riders skill or lack of it. The likes of the V-strom and BM GS are changing the rules on tyres, the 19-inch knobbly section of the catalogue gets longer with every edition. Half a centimeter of ground clearance in the showroom spec sheet is rather off-set by the riders decision to carry a decent set of tyre levers or supersize lunch.

You can play as many games of Top Trumps with the spec sheets as you like, some riders will love a V-Strom where they ride, some won't.

Andy
Threewheelbonnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 08:09 PM   #84
Kamloopsrider
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Kamloopsrider's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Rainshadow of the Coast mountains
Oddometer: 446
I really don't care what you classify vstroms as. All I know is there are a crapload of them around here and most of those guys flat out ride! Paved, gravel, cow pasture, bogs, they just ride. While you are sitting at your keyboard trying to pigeonhole bikes and riders they are out riding.
Kamloopsrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 11:11 PM   #85
Kommando
Grumpy Young Man
 
Kommando's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Spacecoaster FL
Oddometer: 6,470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie
Ted Simon rode round the world, before a lot of paved roads on a Triumph you'd call a classic, standard or tourer. The Mondo-Enduro guys used what you'd call trail bikes. I've no idea what Dual-sport is.
We'd call the street-legal DR350S or SE bikes used for the Mondo Enduro dualsports. The dirt-only versions of DR350 would be called trail bikes here.
Kommando is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 11:20 PM   #86
YukonTracker
Ride your Way
 
YukonTracker's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Vancouver Island, Beautiful British Columbia
Oddometer: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamloopsrider
I really don't care what you classify vstroms as. All I know is there are a crapload of them around here and most of those guys flat out ride! Paved, gravel, cow pasture, bogs, they just ride. While you are sitting at your keyboard trying to pigeonhole bikes and riders they are out riding.
+1 Bud!!
YukonTracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2009, 09:42 PM   #87
Schlug
JockeyfullofBourbon
 
Schlug's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: put something on and stay in that position.
Oddometer: 7,186
i have both a GS and a V-Strom, along with a plated XR400 and a bit of time on a KTM 950.

the Strom is not worth a good spit on a trail. of note:
junk, primary school front forks and crap, rudimentary rear suspension. it's harsh, has very basic adjustments, and bottoms out. now there is a guy (Sasquatch, an inmate here) who will make them rebuildable and service them)

cast wheels daring you to ride up that rock garden. you know what happens when you dent a cast wheel past a certain point? yeah-- the tire doesn't hold air. it isn't a matter of a bumpy ride home.

expensive tupperware (and plenty of it) held together with plastic push pins.

horrible ground clearance with an exposed header and an oil cooler conveniently located to be smashed by rocks thrown back by the front tire.
yeah, you can buy an aftermarket bash plate and fix that when you bottom the bike out and crush it.

the GS paralever/telelever is miles, hundreds of miles ahead of the Strom. it floats over washboards and takes bigger hits much better.

ground clearance is night/day.

COG much better due to cylinders being down low. two tiny pieces of tupperware which are rarely damaged.

the GS is a 'round the world' bike. not a street/trail bike, but a bike capable of weaving its way through the horrible roads one might find in mexico, or africa, or michigan. i have run mine down trails and ploughed both crash bars through 1 foot deep ruts trying to follow the 650's. but it was a hell of a lot of work. i ran it up a goat trail with the fellows at the ADV East Coast Rendez-Vous, and that was a hell of a lot of work.

the Strom does a bit of this, but really you could take your family car down most terrain best suited for the Strom's suspension. check out pluric's pics. he's having a hell of a lot of fun and using the Strom for it's designed purpose. same with Vegasphotog. nice pics, but my neighbor's Malibu could carefully ride those roads.

here's a hill climb, sandy, rutted hill climb i did with the GS 1150. you can see Jerry's KTM passing it as it's parked on the side of the trail. yeah, i did that trail, on tourances, and no falls, but it was fucking work.













the 950 has it over the GS in that the suspension is even a little bit better and the clutch is not a big dry clutch. it's not nearly as fun on a 600 mile day, but has it over the GS hands down in the dirt.

adventure bikes, big dualies, whatever, they're different than the dual sport bikes like the F800GS, F650GS, the KLRs, DRs, XRL's XRR's ...those are true dual sports... trails, whoops, and road with varying results.

when i look at a dirt road or two-track, i think, 'yeah, i'll take that.' when the road or two-track goes turns to rough, rocky trail, i think, 'yeah, i can make it through there' but i'm working, and nose-picking my way through. not whooping it up like i do on the XR, which is essentially unbreakable.
__________________
"So what makes this protest different is that you're set to die, Bobby?"
--May well come to that.
"You start a hunger strike to protest for what you believe in. You don't start already determined to die or am I missing somethin' here?"
-- It's in their hands. Our message is clear. They're seeing our determination.
Schlug is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2009, 12:45 AM   #88
YukonTracker
Ride your Way
 
YukonTracker's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Vancouver Island, Beautiful British Columbia
Oddometer: 249
Ah.. there we are.... we are back at "my dick is bigger". I may hope that the suspension of a GS is better than a Strom's for three times the dough! Fact is that I cannot come up with places people take GS's up that stromers would avoid or have to work harder for. It's a compromise bike as are many in this classification. Be happy, ride and stop wasting all that energy punching keys.
YukonTracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2009, 07:52 AM   #89
Shooter1
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Shooter1's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Oddometer: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegasphotog
So, WTF is a dual sport?















I prolly got another 50 photos of stuff I have ridden most guys never ride on a dirt bike. Point being....people get too hung up on the bike classification....it is ABOUT THE RIDER. Hayabusas ride to Prudhoe....It's all marketing hype....ride your own ride...whatever you enjoy.
****I'd love to see some of the 50 pics of your Suz in areas most guys wouldn't ride a real dirt bike.

-Harvey
#1017
'04 EXC450
'06 300XCW
'89 FXRS

Shooter1 screwed with this post 08-01-2009 at 07:57 AM
Shooter1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2009, 08:14 AM   #90
njd
Beastly Adventurer
 
njd's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: NJ
Oddometer: 1,121
Dual sport doesn't imply 50/50 (road/dirt). I think dual sport just indicates that the bike can tackle at least some of both. I wouldn't take a xt225 out on the turnpike, but I'm sure there are some crazy inmates who have. Likewise, some people wouldn't take the strom onto any serious dirt, while others would.

This thread is a waste of time. You guys can argue semantics, I'll ride those garage queens of yours in the meantime.
njd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 06:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014