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Old 04-18-2009, 08:16 AM   #61
mikepa
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Location: Seattle, WA in the Great Pacific NorthWET (USA)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abenteuerfahrer
Hi Mike...thanks for the advise. If I knew this about dual shocks then I would have gone that way. Oh, well! So far the Tilt actuator works OK. Been playing with different road crowns and it sure does make a huge difference.
The twin-shock set-up is all new, a request made while I was on tour down in South America on u'Hack 2.0 and the "catastrophic" shock failure I experenced. Jay was in the middle of building the chassis and rigging for U'Hack 3.0, set what they had done aside, and built a new sub-chassis and trailing arm for the tub with dual Progressive shocks mounted in tandem (one fore, one aft). My thinking is, each shock should only have to "work" half as hard, and, should one fail, there is still one out there working, double-redundancy (though, in this case, only half the spring rate).

Even with this set-up, I'll still always carry one spare shock with a heavy spring installed, so worst case, should both the twin shocks fail, I can install the single spare with a heavier spring rate and carry on.

I may seem to be goving overboard with this whole shock thing, but I have had a Progressive shock failure on every long-haul tour I've taken so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abenteuerfahrer
I am in communication with Klaus at Hyperpro who sold me the bike shocks to see whether he can come up with something a bit cheaper. Plan on sending my OEM Progressive shock to him for spring testing(1 day turnaround). Then see what he has to say or has in store. I have very limited room and cannot have any of the shocks with pre-loader handles.
Can you reply with the exact order/model number of the HyperPro's that you've ordered for the bike? I might be willing to given them a try. I've seen too many failures with the Ohlins, WP and Fox Shocks. So far, the OEM shocks that BMW installs on the line have been the most reliable, but the spring rate is really too soft.

Thanks!
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'05 BMW R1200GS/EZS Rally "L" (UberHack 1.0)
'05 BMW R1150GS Adventure/Ural "SideCzar" (Uberhack 2.0)
'04 BMW R1150GS Adventure/Ural "WarBird" (UberHack 3.0)
http://www.globeriders.com
Kenmore, WA
USA

"The world is a book and those that do not travel, read only a page." - St. Augustine

"...not all those that wander are lost." - J. R. R. Tolkien

mikepa screwed with this post 04-18-2009 at 06:10 PM
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Old 04-18-2009, 08:36 AM   #62
claude
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One thing that will kill a shock pretty easily on a sidecar is if it can 'top out' in it's travel regularly. There should be some type of limiting device to prevent this from happening.
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claude screwed with this post 04-18-2009 at 08:51 AM
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Old 04-18-2009, 05:09 PM   #63
Abenteuerfahrer OP
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Hola Mike.....

It's a HyperPro 3D shock for the front and rear.

I don't see a model number on my brochure but I'll give you the particulars.

For the R1200 GS... (article number: BM12-0AAEPM0899

FRONT: Length 337.5 mm
Springcup H=0 NO H=
Spring 1217 (NA 372)
Preload 22 mm
SAG 45 +-5mm

Damping Street (riding purpose)
Length Adjust No
Spring Type Pro Purple (color of spring desired(black/purple)
HPA No (manual preloader)
Riderweight 105 kg
Luggage 55kg
Riding height 0 mm (need not to be accounted)


Rear: Length 400.5 mm
Springcup H=O NO H= -10
spring 1236 (PA 1593)
preload 26 mm
SAG 20 +- 5mm

Damping street
Length adj No
Spring type Pro Purple
HPA YES
Rider weight 105 kg
Luggage 80 kg
Riding height 0 mm

That's all I got from Klaus...You basically give him your weight; stuff you carry; weight of sidecar+passenger; approx luggage...then he calculates the appropriate shock for you. He doesn't make them. They are custom made for you in Holland to suit your needs. The shaft of the Hyperpro shock is much beefier(16 mm) 2mm larger than the rest.

Here's his side: http://www.wilbersusa.com/hyperpro-m...cle-shocks.htm

He no longer serves or is involved with the Wilbers of Deutschland. They had a missverstaendniss
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Old 04-18-2009, 05:30 PM   #64
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Claude.....you're right about a sidecar shock "limiter". Now get to the drawing board and think of it. You're good at it.

This shock explosion apparently happened to MikePA on his gorgeous adventure trip to Tierra del Fuego. Mike does and goes pretty extreme riding and is a wealth of information when it comes to roads less traveled and does actual bike/sidecar field testings. Then he passes it on to this site. Although I don't ride as extreme but want a more forgiving shock for the roads to Inuvik(Dempster) and Deadhorse(Haul Road)....
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Old 04-18-2009, 09:07 PM   #65
mikepa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abenteuerfahrer




Hey 'Farher -

Given the build quality going in to your rig, here's some "protective" advice for you, both to protect the finish on the rigging, and also maybe save your right leg from bruises (as me how I know ).

Make some rough measurements of your rigging, to include any wiring you may have cable-tied to it. Head down to your local big-box Home Depot or Lowe's or whatever home builder's supply store is in your area. In the plumbing section, you'll find pipe insulation. It normally comes in 6ft lengths, made of foam, slit down the length so you can slip it over piping. The best stuff is urethane foam (black), not the polyethylene stuff (usually blue or pink). Some stores carry it with adhesive along both sides of the spilt/seam. Buy several lengths in whatever ID you need.

Slip the appropriate size over the various rigging struts and but to length. When you satisfied with the "fit", pull off the adhesive backing strips and press the seam together. Then, run some cable ties along each length and snug to a loose fit. Voila! You have not only protected your struts from paint/powder coat rock chips, etc., but also provide some padding to protect your shins.

It'll get torn and banged up in the course of your ride, but is cheap and simple to replace, much easier than spot painting the rock chips later on.

Also, your local auto parts store should carry an extruded "U"-shaped door edging. Usually, it has a bead of adhesive run along the inside. It's normally applied to the edge of car and truck doors to protect them from chips if you bang into another vehicle (of course, we don't ever have that happen, do we?). This stuff makes a nice edging for the tub's shield, and perhaps that on your bike as well. May also be good to run some around the edge of the trunk lid to keep it from damaging the paint on the tub.

Finally, go over to the area where they sell various types of foam and edging for door and window sealing. You'll probably find something that is the right cross section, density and shape, with adhesive backing, to run around the inside of the trunk lid, such that it is compressed against the lip on the tub, thus providing a bit of a rain and dust seal. Nice to keep the trunk clean, there's lots of dust and calcium carbonate (which I think is the chemical used for dust control) on the Haul Road.

Sometimes, it's OK to be anal!

Best,

MikeP
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Mike M. Paull
'05 BMW R1200GS/EZS Rally "L" (UberHack 1.0)
'05 BMW R1150GS Adventure/Ural "SideCzar" (Uberhack 2.0)
'04 BMW R1150GS Adventure/Ural "WarBird" (UberHack 3.0)
http://www.globeriders.com
Kenmore, WA
USA

"The world is a book and those that do not travel, read only a page." - St. Augustine

"...not all those that wander are lost." - J. R. R. Tolkien
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Old 04-19-2009, 02:17 PM   #66
Abenteuerfahrer OP
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Thanks Mike for your suggestions.

Now, many of you who drive Hacks of whatever make might already have solved this. It's in regard to the windshield and it's Bonnet. The Bonnet is the only item holding the windshield in place while you blast down the by-ways at 70 mph. At any speed from 40 to 70+ the Bonnet stretches and on a hot day it stretches even more never going back to its original cut. It's also hard on the common-sense-fasteners. In due time all will break and might fly into your spouses beautiful face. It's not possible to tighten the nuts on the windshields bracket any further without breaking. So, here's a solution..while not too aesthetic but functional! It's been proven to stay in place without stretching at 70 mph, ..eh....


This is what you need...







Now you see it..




Now you don't...



Undo these....

Fold back....



Go solo riding....



Or fold forward for your Princess to step into the cockpit...



Happy Hacking at 70 mph.....cheers....

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Old 04-21-2009, 11:59 AM   #67
claude
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Pretty crafty on the windshield deal Elmer
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Old 04-21-2009, 05:13 PM   #68
Abenteuerfahrer OP
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Thanks Claude....

Now I am trying to be craftier in developing some isolation mounts for the Tug as the new M72D sits "hard" on the chasis unlike the Ural, Hannigan or even yours? At the same time I don't want to raise the Tug too high..., eh.
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:26 AM   #69
claude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abenteuerfahrer
Thanks Claude....

Now I am trying to be craftier in developing some isolation mounts for the Tug as the new M72D sits "hard" on the chasis unlike the Ural, Hannigan or even yours? At the same time I don't want to raise the Tug too high..., eh.
We have mounted ours in various ways. Make sure the fiberglass is thick enough to carry any point loads the mounts may allow. Best maybe to put a piece of aluminum flat bar or something across the body to distribute the loads.
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http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

President: C Stanley Motorsports Inc.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:03 PM   #70
RedMenace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claude
We have mounted ours in various ways. Make sure the fiberglass is thick enough to carry any point loads the mounts may allow. Best maybe to put a piece of aluminum flat bar or something across the body to distribute the loads.
check salvage yards for rubber motor mounts or shipping yards for pallet mounts used to ship big electrical equipment. You are looking for rubber blocks with studs coming out of opposite sides. If you can find something that will fit, it will be solid enuf for the rigors of sidecar use and damp some of the vibes, preventing glas fatigue. It won't do much to soften the ride, tho'

If that is what you are looking for, you need to rig a spring and pivot or some other suspension for the tub
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:40 PM   #71
claude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMenace
check salvage yards for rubber motor mounts or shipping yards for pallet mounts used to ship big electrical equipment. You are looking for rubber blocks with studs coming out of opposite sides. If you can find something that will fit, it will be solid enuf for the rigors of sidecar use and damp some of the vibes, preventing glas fatigue. It won't do much to soften the ride, tho'

If that is what you are looking for, you need to rig a spring and pivot or some other suspension for the tub
Elmer,
If you use these types of vibration isolators, rubber blocks with studs coming out of opposite sides, (may be able to find them at McMasterCar.com) it is not a bad idea too include a safety strap of some type to secure the body in case an isolator does fail. Maybe something similar to the cable deal like you did on the windscreen.
The front of the sidecar can be mounted on a set of heim ends so it will pivot up and down.
I actually like the Chaing Jang system of leaf springs in the rear.
Two shocks , one on each side of the body, has also been done and worked good.
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President: C Stanley Motorsports Inc.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:41 PM   #72
Abenteuerfahrer OP
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Poor Mans Vibration Dampers...

Thanks Claude and Red Menace...for your input and suggestion.

I've come up with a poor Man's version, while not perfect as the bolts are not encased separately in the rubber but am sure it will at least vibrate 30% less. Less complaints from the passenger. I did raise it about 1", plan to compress it about 1/4" after getting Claudes idea of adding a bar across the insides of the Tub. Currently I have large spacers but Claudes idea is better, more mass hold down!

So here is what I did...

Cut in half these round sanding disc drums for hand drills. Bought three of these. They are 2" in diameter and 2" long. Made of semi-hard rubber.



Cut in half...appropriate hole size drilled..add large spacer....







The rear has 3, while the front has 2...





Rear Dampers underneath Tub...






2 in the front...




Street tests are on the way as soon as I get the Tubs brake systems...

Cheers...
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:46 PM   #73
claude
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Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub at SCT
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

President: C Stanley Motorsports Inc.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...rsandTrailers/

http://freedomsidecars.com/
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Old 04-23-2009, 08:09 AM   #74
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Literite....Absolutely excellent...thanks for the source of these rubbers. I might....hmmnn??....you make me worry..eh,...these AV rubbers are more proper..yep..might order them. In the mean time I am fabricating these bars(also suggested by Claude) across the floor...or you can even f'glass a few more layers inside then no bar would be needed underneath as I raised the Tub 1" already! Cheers, Amigo
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Old 04-23-2009, 08:24 AM   #75
claude
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http://www.mcmaster.com/#isolation-mounts/=1kjgig
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http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

President: C Stanley Motorsports Inc.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...rsandTrailers/

http://freedomsidecars.com/
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