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Old 04-23-2009, 02:27 PM   #76
Abenteuerfahrer OP
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Location: Leland, North Carolina, USA
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Mounting the Tubs brake link...

For those who are about to Hack their 2005 1200 GS. Here are some pictures of how the brake linkage is set up on your bike to a Dauntless sidecar.

Look for the rear brake master cylinder...and remove the protective cover



Replace the BMW screws that held the cyclinder and protective cover with these long bolts. The round black spacer is to separate the two cylinders.

****On left is the plunger rod that pushes the piston in the cyclinder. Make sure that you align the rod as not to interfere with the acutal BMW rear brake stop travel.










Remove the BMW pin...



Fasten and align the trigger bolts...


Temp routed cable to suit....



Waiting for missing Banjo bolt...



This large appendage is the brake line quick disconnect in the event that you want to go solo.



Disconnect.....4 bolts; 3 bundled together electrical cables; 1 brake cable and you're solo....

Abenteuerfahrer screwed with this post 04-24-2009 at 08:06 PM
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Old 04-25-2009, 07:57 PM   #77
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More farkeling...

Painted the Ruskie 10 L(2,5 gal) Jerry can. It came in military green. 1 coat of white epoxy primer; 2 coats of polyurethane Monza red; three clear coats. Lookin' for "JaegerMeister" logo for the can..



Ruskie Ural steel bracket...



Also painted the Micatech sidecases lemon yellow on the sides and backsides..



Reinforced the right inside trunk wall with 24 oz. roving mat and topped with another layer of chopped strand mat. This should strengthen the wall for the Ruskie's bracket and hanging full gas can.



Rear cross aluminum bar and reinforced fiberglassed floor..



Front reinforced aluminum bar with fiberglassed floor(again 24 oz. roving mat and chopped strand mat for both)...



Cheers.....
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Old 04-26-2009, 05:18 PM   #78
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Ach du Lieber...Ingrid ain't brakin'..??

Got the Banjo bolt and washers from Jay, so it was bleeding time.





Used DOT3+4> synthec....






Mighty Mite for bleeding....



Sidecar brake





Bled about 20 mls before no more air came thru....



Did the normal brake bleeding and all seemed to be well. Closed the bleed valves and tested the sidecar brake by jacking-up the sidecar wheel. Spun the wheel by hand and stomped on the bikes rear brake.... ...sidecar wheel spun happily along ...no action whatsoever with fluid filled bike side master cylinder to stop Tubs wheel...

Toyed with the right(linked to sidecar) master cylinder where one can adjust the pushrod. Loosened lock-nut and turned the rod up. Pushed on brake and I felt the brake pedal hit something solid. This also prevented the BMW rear brake from stopping the bike completely. Turned the sidecar mastercyclinder rod further down...BMW rear brake goes back to normal and stops bikes rear wheel but does nothing to the sidecars wheel...So, where did I err...?



Won't touch BMW rear brake plunger adjustment..but what should I do with the sidecar plunger adjustment..I am all with your expertise..suggestion. Have no idea of the internal works of the master cyclinder that's pushed by the plunger rod. What's above the plunger rod; piston...valve..? Notice the plunger rod thread on the right (sidecar) is turned down which makes the BMW rear brake stop fully. Screwing it up prevents stopping the bikes rear....



Ach, du lieber...I need help
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Old 04-26-2009, 06:52 PM   #79
mikepa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abenteuerfahrer
I am all with your expertise..suggestion. Have no idea of the internal works of the master cyclinder that's pushed by the plunger rod. What's above the plunger rod; piston...valve..? Notice the plunger rod thread on the right (sidecar) is turned down which makes the BMW rear brake stop fully. Screwing it up prevents stopping the bikes rear....



Ach, du lieber...I need help
Hi 'Farher -

The master cylinder pushrod normally has a rounded/ball end that pushes directly against the piston. At the risk of stating the obvious, is it possible that the adjustment (that is, the adjusted length of the tub's master cylinder actuation rod) is just really touchy? As it is now, the tug's brake works, but the tub's doesn't. When you adjusted the tug's master cylinder push rod until it was long enough to actuate the tug's brake, the bike's wouldn't work. Is it possible you just sort of need to cheat up on it little by little, making small incremental adjustments to increase the length of the tug's pushrod until you acheive that happy balance? Brakes sytem is pretty simple, and sounds like you bled it correctly.

Best,
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'05 BMW R1200GS/EZS Rally "L" (UberHack 1.0)
'05 BMW R1150GS Adventure/Ural "SideCzar" (Uberhack 2.0)
'04 BMW R1150GS Adventure/Ural "WarBird" (UberHack 3.0)
http://www.globeriders.com
Kenmore, WA
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"The world is a book and those that do not travel, read only a page." - St. Augustine

"...not all those that wander are lost." - J. R. R. Tolkien
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Old 04-26-2009, 09:21 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepa
Hi 'Farher -

The master cylinder pushrod normally has a rounded/ball end that pushes directly against the piston. At the risk of stating the obvious, is it possible that the adjustment (that is, the adjusted length of the tub's master cylinder actuation rod) is just really touchy? As it is now, the tug's brake works, but the tub's doesn't. When you adjusted the tug's master cylinder push rod until it was long enough to actuate the tug's brake, the bike's wouldn't work. Is it possible you just sort of need to cheat up on it little by little, making small incremental adjustments to increase the length of the tug's pushrod until you acheive that happy balance? Brakes sytem is pretty simple, and sounds like you bled it correctly.

Best,
Hi Mikepa,

Did everything you mentioned; no dice! I suspect: wrong part; it's probably for the 1150's or even the 1100's...Why doesn't the left plunger rod and it's locknut look the same as on the right. The one on the left has a locknut and permanent nut on the rod for adjusting, while the right one only has a locknut on the rod. In order to adjust the right nut one must use nose plyers to screw up or down. Oh, sure the right one will work for the Tub's brake if not linked together with the left one but apparently cannot work in tandem.

Another e-mail to the Northwet.....

Abenteuerfahrer screwed with this post 04-26-2009 at 09:27 PM
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:30 PM   #81
mikepa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abenteuerfahrer
Hi Mikepa,

Did everything you mentioned; no dice! I suspect: wrong part; it's probably for the 1150's or even the 1100's...Why doesn't the left plunger rod and it's locknut look the same as on the right.
The tub's Brembo caliper is a smaller caliper than the one on the bike. If the caliper and rotor was the same, it would probably just lock up. Since the caliper is smaller, the master cylinder is not the same as the OEM rear brake caliper on the tub (also from Brembo I think). My point, the calipers are not the same, and the master cylinders are not either, so it's not surprising that there are some differences.

Best,
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'05 BMW R1200GS/EZS Rally "L" (UberHack 1.0)
'05 BMW R1150GS Adventure/Ural "SideCzar" (Uberhack 2.0)
'04 BMW R1150GS Adventure/Ural "WarBird" (UberHack 3.0)
http://www.globeriders.com
Kenmore, WA
USA

"The world is a book and those that do not travel, read only a page." - St. Augustine

"...not all those that wander are lost." - J. R. R. Tolkien

mikepa screwed with this post 04-27-2009 at 02:38 PM
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Old 04-27-2009, 11:52 AM   #82
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Ingrid braked for Old Ladies...

I may have over reacted a bit and apologize if I rubbed anyone the wrong way...in my comments about it being the wrong part!

MMikepa your explanation made sense....Litewait thanks for your input too! It was necessary in order to not interfere with the Tugs brake to turn down the sidecars master cylinder plunger rod to almost the end of the thread/lock nut and flushing about 70 mls of fluid, it finally started to compress.

Then the Banjo bolt aluminum washers started leaking under strong foot pressure. Replaced them with proper copper washers..presto no leak

Test riding indicated a pull to the right when applying the rear brake. Applying the front and rear at the same time gave a reasonable straight stop. Rear braking will always pull the Tub to the right. If I slam on the rear brake I guess the Tubs brake will prevail over the Tug...so right it goes unless I apply the front to correct, eh?

Aluminum washers at Banjo bolt...



Copper washers...torqued to 24 nm...



Notice how close and how much thread is left after adjusting and not overriding the Tugs master cylinder plunger rod..



Thanks again guys...am a happy Man.. Cheers..

Abenteuerfahrer screwed with this post 04-27-2009 at 12:03 PM
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Old 04-27-2009, 03:27 PM   #83
mikepa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abenteuerfahrer
Test riding indicated a pull to the right when applying the rear brake. Applying the front and rear at the same time gave a reasonable straight stop. Rear braking will always pull the Tub to the right. If I slam on the rear brake I guess the Tubs brake will prevail over the Tug...so right it goes unless I apply the front to correct, eh?
Hi 'Farher -

I was down at Dauntless today delivering some final parts for my rig, and chatted with Jay about your problem. Didn't learn anything that I didn't already consider, glad that you got your brake sorted out on your own.

FWIW, I learned to drive sidecars on Ural Gear-Ups. Of course, they have a (double-shoe drum) sidecar brake that is mechanically linked to the tug's rear brake pedal and its (double-shoe drum) brake. This set-up actually works pretty well, as each drum brake has a fairly easy-to-tweak threaded adjuster on the brake rod, and the drum brakes are so ineffective anyway, it's pretty easy to get them "balanced" (in the case of Ural drum brakes, ABS means it's Almost a Braking System).

My first BMW rig (UberHack 1.0, R12GS/EZS) did not have a sidecar brake, as I wanted simplicity above all, and truth be told, I never missed not having a brake on the tub, but, that may be a sort of self-fulfulling prophecy as I didn't have a brake on the tub.

My my second BMW rig (U'Hack 2.0, R11.5GSA/Ural), I sort of let Jay work his salesmanship and decided to have them install a brake on the tub, but for interchangeability, I had a stock BMW OEM (re-branded from Brembo) master cylinder and caliper installed, so in my case, both master cylinders, calipers and rotors were the same. Jay forwarned me that this would be way more disc than I needed out there, but he was able to adjust the actuator rods (as you have done) to get a reasonable balance. However, as you have also experienced, the banjo bolt on the tub's caliper started leaking on my TdF ride, and I just sort of let it go, since I wasn't all that used to having a sidecar brake anyway. That rig is still on the water somewhere between Jamaica and Houston, so I haven't had the chance to sort things out with the brake, but at this point, I think I'll just take it off.

On the thrid BMW rig (U'Hack 3.0 - another R11.5GSA/Ural, that Dauntless is just finishing up) based on the immediate failure with U'Hack 2.0's sidecar brake, I decided against a sidecar brake.

So, though other sidecar pilots I know and respect have the opposite opinion, I personally don't feel I give up any performance or safety by NOT having a sidecar brake, and it makes maintenance and servicing simpler to not have yet another brake system to deal with, and most importantly, "balance". I know a sidecar brake is way cool for doing right-hand sidecar tricks in parking lots, but, as you have found, unless properly adjusted, they do affect the handling of your rig when applied, and it's a fine art to balance the force of the tug's rear brake and that of the tub's when the two are linked.

On option that I know some pilots like, have the tub's brake on a separate but adjacent pedal, so that by rotating your foot, you can actuate one, both, or the other.

So, to make a long reply even longer , the trick will be to tweak that threaded adjuster on the tub's master cylinder so that the whole rig tracks straight when both front and rear brakes are applied, as unless you're off-pavement on a steep descent, you should always be using all brakes to slow or stop - yes? Since we've already established that the tub is bascially a rigid pendulum, you can see the problem, the amount of braking action you want is going to depend somewhat on how much weight you have out there, an empty tub vs. one with a passenger and all your road gear, it's going to make a difference, as you'll want less brake with less weight/empty, and more with more weight/full. The good news, since they are disc brakes, and not drum, once you get the correct "balance" acheived, it will stay that way (as opposed to continually having to make adjustments on rigs, like the Urals, with drum brakes).

A lot to digest there, but it comes down to finessing the "throw" on the tub's master cylinder, and setting up for empty or fully loaded.

More that I wanted to deal with, so I'm punting and taking the easy way out, no brake. The servo-assisted disc brakes on the later generation Beemers as confidence-inspiring, two fingers can scrub speed in a big hurry.

Best,
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Mike M. Paull
'05 BMW R1200GS/EZS Rally "L" (UberHack 1.0)
'05 BMW R1150GS Adventure/Ural "SideCzar" (Uberhack 2.0)
'04 BMW R1150GS Adventure/Ural "WarBird" (UberHack 3.0)
http://www.globeriders.com
Kenmore, WA
USA

"The world is a book and those that do not travel, read only a page." - St. Augustine

"...not all those that wander are lost." - J. R. R. Tolkien
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Old 04-27-2009, 08:46 PM   #84
hondachopper
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Humm...Sounds like pitching the whole thing and going without brakes on the tub might be a better way to go??? Less of a hassle as Mikepa pointed out...

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Old 04-27-2009, 11:00 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepa
Hi 'Farher -

...
One option that I know some pilots like, have the tub's brake on a separate but adjacent pedal, so that by rotating your foot, you can actuate one, both, or the other.
...


Not my work *built by Bob Fleischer* - but it's my rig mechanically linked to allow proportional application with the rear brake, or separate "sidecar only" braking.
I don't use it much like that, though...
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Old 04-28-2009, 07:57 AM   #86
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Tony the Tiger....I did have your version in mind when I ordered the systems from Jay, but thought that less appendages on the frame would be the way to go. Time will tell! Should I find it cumbersome and field unfriendly..I'll disconnect it and go the spartan Mikepa way!

Hondachopper...I'll give it a go for a while. The braking of a heavily ladden Tub should be ok....lightly ladden seems to be the problem. Wish that one could change the brakes response the same way one could do with HPA shocks..just turn the knob for high or low preload (light/strong braking). Oh, well...!
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Old 04-28-2009, 11:13 AM   #87
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First, that is one incredible looking rig. Makes me want to "hack my GS"

I have a DL1000 VStrom with a Ural tub (also built by Jay a couple years ago). I too have had issues trying to "balance" the tub brake.

During a period when I had it disconnected I had the only real panic stop ever, going maybe 35 mph. Grabbed front and rear brakes HARD. The entire rig started to pivot to the left such that I had to release the brakes a bit

The truck was able to get out of my way... but scared the bejeesus out of me (and Connie).

Curiously, I seem to have no balance issues with my Goldwing/Hannigan rig....is this because it is so heavy?

When you experienced guys (Mike, Claude, etc) say you are satisfied with no tub brake, I wonder if I did something wrong, or it something not adjusted right? (don't want to hijack this thread...but it seemed on point).
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:19 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbenner
I have a DL1000 VStrom with a Ural tub (also built by Jay a couple years ago). I too have had issues trying to "balance" the tub brake.

During a period when I had it disconnected I had the only real panic stop ever, going maybe 35 mph. Grabbed front and rear brakes HARD. The entire rig started to pivot to the left such that I had to release the brakes a bit When you experienced guys (Mike, Claude, etc) say you are satisfied with no tub brake, I wonder if I did something wrong, or it something not adjusted right? (don't want to hijack this thread...but it seemed on point).
It is normal for the bike to want to pivot when you brake hard(no sidecar brake) On a wide, short wheelbase rig this will be most pronounced, but they will all do that to some degree. The trick is to correct by steering towards the sidecar and do not lock up that front brake! More rear brake will tend to drag it straight but the main thing is steer to correct for the yaw and don't slide the front tire. This is one of the exercises we practice in the S/TEP class.

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Old 04-28-2009, 01:52 PM   #89
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Abenteuerfahrer - Great looking rig! I want to do this exact same setup some day. PM me when you get it done and lets go for a ride, or even if you just need some help with something. I'm just up the road from you in Clinton.
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Old 04-28-2009, 07:19 PM   #90
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For a few fistfull of dollars more...

A few more things were in order to make access easier for changing the top bolt of the sidecar shock.



OUCH....!!



8mm....3/8" ?....pretty heavy GRP





Tool acess for removing upper shock bolt..







Yet to be painted access knob..



Cap on the inside....

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