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Old 06-20-2011, 06:31 PM   #706
GaryHarris
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Originally Posted by djb_rh View Post
Flats versus clipless is a timeless debate and mostly personal preference.

HOWEVER, it is a fact that you can be more efficient by being able to use more DIFFERENT muscles if you ride clipless. It is also a fact that you can do things clipless (particularly while climbing) that you simply can NOT do with platforms. It is also a fact that you can get off the platforms slightly more quickly than you can get out of clipless, but I've ridden some hairy places clipless and I can say that without a doubt I feel completely comfortable that I can get out of the pedals quickly enough that THAT is never going to make a crash any worse than it was going to be anyway. The only times I've failed to unclip were crashes where I was down so fast that I never had a chance to try, and in those cases it's just a nuisance that you're sort of "stuck" to the bike on your side.

There are plenty of riders that do amazing things both clipped and unclipped, but I'd point out that even the current generation of BMX racers are starting to move to clipless, which is something people said would NEVER happen. I think it's also telling that you just don't find any significant amount of XC racers riding platforms.

That said, I did find a use for platforms...shared bike races where one person runs, one person rides, and you swap several times (like the Muddy Buddy). But even then we added a set of Power Grips (a single large strap) to a set of old school huge BMX platforms. Then it was easy to pedal with my size 14 feet in some big burly trail running shoes, and we still got a lot of the efficiencies of being semi-clipped. I think that's the way to go on trail duathlons, too, to avoid wasting time in transition.

But in the end, if you love platforms and fear clipless, well, riding platforms is better than not riding. ;)

As for posting bikes, I'll just go with the latest addition to the ever-growing herd:



Santa Cruz Highball XL frame, 120mm Fox fork, Enve Composites wheels, Maxxis Ikon 29" tires (setup tubeless, and you can NOT pinch flat a tubeless...they burp out the sidewall if they are too low in pressure and just go flat from that, but they are not damaged generally), SRM powermeter cranks (embedded in K-Force Lights), 1x10 drivetrain with X0 cassette/derailleur/shifter, etc. 22.3 pounds.


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Sweet bike dude!
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:45 PM   #707
djb_rh
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Sweet bike dude!
Thanks. I should mention that I do put my own bikes together, and occasionally make parts. That bash guard is a little bit of a rip-off of a Salsa bash guard that they no longer make but that I had a buddy custom cut for me on a CNC waterjet. The N-Gear chain guide also had to have a piece custom fabricated by me to work on this carbon frame (small flat piece of aluminum stock that I used a mini-mill to cut two grooves in to relocate the metal part of the guide about 3/4" lower than the clamp would go).

This is also a recent build:



That's an OnOne 456 Titanium XL frame with a Fox TALAS fork. It's built in a 1x10 drivetrain same as the Highball but without powermeter cranks and XTR's instead. Similar otherwise, but intended to be a little less race bike and a little more hooligan trail bike.

I'm 6'2" and prefer a long cockpit, so you'll generally see a 110mm stem and a Thomson setback seatpost on all my mountain bikes (and an XL frame, of course). Other bikes in the herd...Santa Cruz XC carbon, Santa Cruz Nomad, Santa Cruz V10, Santa Cruz Jackal, (see a trend? I like Santa Cruz bikes!), Guru titanium road bike (custom frame), Guru steel road bike with the same dimension custom frame for the trainer only. I have a problem. All but the Jackal and the V10 see a good bit of love. But one day I'll start leaving the earth more...I keep saying that. :)


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Old 06-21-2011, 05:34 AM   #708
Gummee!
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There's a school of thought that believes using clipless peddles increases power is a myth. For MTB's, I have to agree to an extent. If you know how to peddle in a circle and know how to pull up on good flats like the Wellgo MG1's, the upstroke is near negligible. At least for a casual rider going to Starbucks.
PEDAL

Its PEDAL dammit!

M
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Old 06-21-2011, 06:00 AM   #709
GaryHarris
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PEDAL

Its PEDAL dammit!

M

Thats the way you Yankees spell it.
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Old 06-21-2011, 06:04 AM   #710
trailer Rails
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To answer the pinch flat question, It's been done with tubeless I hear, but I have never actually seen it and I have never ran without tubes, so I should re-tract my statement about pinch flats since I have never had a flat on the trails in 17 years. But I run a little higher tire pressure than some and adjust my riding style to that. Where I ride is a mixture on hard packed clay, soft sand and a shitload of diagonal roots.
Tubeless is the way to go. I recomend running a stans rim for the best results. All of my off road bikes are tubeless.

Running higher tire pressure is not the solution. Running high tire pressure caused the bike to deflect off of ever little bump and actually slows you down. Low pressure will absorb the bump and allow you to continue. Low pressure will also act as suspension. I weigh 180 lbs dressed and I run 24psi in the front and 27 in the rear on a 29x2.0 tire. I have never gotten a flat after I went tubeless. I used to get pinch flats every couple rides with tubes.

I do still carry a pump and a tube for that day, but usually they are used on my ill prepared riding buddies bikes.

I don't care what you do, I was just trying to offer some advice.


Quote:
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I don't know who this is and I couldn't find a better vid of the Anthills in Houston, but this is the easier sections. Please stay to the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEEenGWyvYg

Cool video, looks a lot like the trails around here but a lot flatter. We have tons of roots and clay. No sand though.

I run clipless pedals for the same reason you run flats. Bacause of the roots and logs. I like to be able to loft the bike at the last second in a corner. I like the pop I can get when I am attached. I run flat pedals on all of my other bikes. I really like flat pedals but when riding tight trails there is nothing like being connected. I can understand you not wanting to use them when you are as old as father time and have been riding since the Wright brothers still owned a bike shop. I was trying to offer some advice on tire pressure to help the issue of slipping out on roots.
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Old 06-21-2011, 07:59 AM   #711
GaryHarris
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Besides the usual "Deflection" off of roots, I have never gone down because I lost the front end because of roots. I normally run Kenda Karmas, SB8s or Nevagals at 50 psi in the rear and 45 up front. My point about the roots and using flats instead of clipless is because I have seen several of my riding buddies go down in those technical sections because they didn't get clicked out fast enough.

And yea, I know about having more power, whatever! I get ribbed all the time with my locals about using flats up until they lay there bleeding and my old ass is smoking a fatty!

I tried using clipless several times and just never felt comfortable with them. I just don't like them, don't like the idea I'm stuck to the bike, and I HATE that sound of clicking in and out. But, if I was a leg shaver or rode in non technical areas, well yea! I'd clamp in! But that's not what I do.

As far as tubeless, too much hassle for me. I like the idea of losing a little weight as far as rotating mass goes, but I'm already at 23lbs flat.

I'm no rookie! I don't buy store bought bikes. I build em.
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:19 AM   #712
zippy
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Originally Posted by GaryHarris View Post
I tried using clipless several times and just never felt comfortable with them. I just don't like them, don't like the idea I'm stuck to the bike, and I HATE that sound of clicking in and out. But, if I was a leg shaver or rode in non technical areas, well yea! I'd clamp in! But that's not what I do.
When was the last time you tried clipless ? I bought a set (Sampsons I think ) when clipless first started selling to the public. Needed a prybar and 1/2 stick of dynamite to unclip from those. I now use shimano spd cleats and pedals which allow you to adjust how easy/hard it is to clip/unclip. For the record - I am not a leg shaver and enjoy technical riding as well.
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Old 06-21-2011, 12:37 PM   #713
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Thats the way you Yankees spell it.
Peddle is something you do to southerners when yer trying to make a quick buck. Buy junk, peddle it to unsuspecting rednecks, make bank.



[Klay]To make a bicycle move, regardless of where you are in the world, you PEDAL it. Spell-check thinks both are OK cause they're both words.[/Klay]

M
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Old 06-21-2011, 12:48 PM   #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryHarris View Post
Besides the usual "Deflection" off of roots, I have never gone down because I lost the front end because of roots. I normally run Kenda Karmas, SB8s or Nevagals at 50 psi in the rear and 45 up front. My point about the roots and using flats instead of clipless is because I have seen several of my riding buddies go down in those technical sections because they didn't get clicked out fast enough.

And yea, I know about having more power, whatever! I get ribbed all the time with my locals about using flats up until they lay there bleeding and my old ass is smoking a fatty!

I tried using clipless several times and just never felt comfortable with them. I just don't like them, don't like the idea I'm stuck to the bike, and I HATE that sound of clicking in and out. But, if I was a leg shaver or rode in non technical areas, well yea! I'd clamp in! But that's not what I do.

As far as tubeless, too much hassle for me. I like the idea of losing a little weight as far as rotating mass goes, but I'm already at 23lbs flat.

I'm no rookie! I don't buy store bought bikes. I build em.
Unlike you, I embraced clipless on both the road and mtn. I had road clipless pedals well before you could get mtn clipless pedals that made sense (can someone say 'Look 2-bolt?')... I saw how much it improved my riding and couldn't wait to get off-road clipless.

I wanted it so badly, I actually rode road shoes with smooth, stiff bottoms on my clip and strap mtn pedals. Quickly found out that wasn't a good idea, but there wasn't a viable alternative, so I kept at it.

Finally got some OnZa HO pedals and like the post above, had to be dynamited out of my pedal on a few rides. Found Speedplay Magnum pedals (now Frogs) and didn't look back. So... if you don't like the 'clicking in and out' sound, get some Frogs.

I've found that I can move the bike around BETTER with my feet attached. Need to pull the back wheel up and over something? Do it. Need to skootch your back wheel a few (many?) inches to avoid a rock/root/whatever? Do it. Bunny hops are made simple. Waist high logs? No worries. Get your front wheel on it and heave. (not me, a buddy! I don't have cojones big enough)

It takes more than a few times to get comfortable. I've unclipped while going over the bars. I've unclipped while going sideways, backwards, almost upside down, etc. Once the movement is ingrained into your muscle memory, its a non-issue. The learning curve is pretty steep. Shouldn't take too long...

...but it isn't my bike and it isn't my ride. I'm here to sing the praises of better equipment = more fun but if 'you*' don't listen its no skin off my back. Enjoy your ride your way. I'll enjoy my ride my way.



M

*generic 'you' not anyone specific
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Old 06-21-2011, 12:54 PM   #715
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My family their SO's and our bikes.



Posted because I like the picture...
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Old 06-21-2011, 01:46 PM   #716
mud
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Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Finally got some OnZa HO pedals and like the post above, had to be dynamited out of my pedal on a few rides. Found Speedplay Magnum pedals (now Frogs) and didn't look back. So... if you don't like the 'clicking in and out' sound, get some Frogs.

I've found that I can move the bike around BETTER with my feet attached. Need to pull the back wheel up and over something? Do it. Need to skootch your back wheel a few (many?) inches to avoid a rock/root/whatever? Do it. Bunny hops are made simple. Waist high logs? No worries. Get your front wheel on it and heave. (not me, a buddy! I don't have cojones big enough)

It takes more than a few times to get comfortable. I've unclipped while going over the bars. I've unclipped while going sideways, backwards, almost upside down, etc. Once the movement is ingrained into your muscle memory, its a non-issue. The learning curve is pretty steep. Shouldn't take too long...

...but it isn't my bike and it isn't my ride. I'm here to sing the praises of better equipment = more fun but if 'you*' don't listen its no skin off my back. Enjoy your ride your way. I'll enjoy my ride my way.



M

*generic 'you' not anyone specific
OK, Since this is here, I will post this question here......
The last set of "clip-less" I rode were Shimano 858's.
Are you able to move your feet more laterally (float, I think they call it) on the new ones. The thing I don't like about them is I couldn't move my feet around.

Trials bikes will make you HATE "clip-less" petals.
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Old 06-21-2011, 01:58 PM   #717
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OK, Since this is here, I will post this question here......
The last set of "clip-less" I rode were Shimano 858's.
Are you able to move your feet more laterally (float, I think they call it) on the new ones. The thing I don't like about them is I couldn't move my feet around.

Trials bikes will make you HATE "clip-less" petals.
In general, not really, no. You really don't want more float, though. Not moving your feet is really just something that's better to get used to, since you get so much more control if you don't/can't.

I'm personally a huge Eggbeater fan. Love those pedals.


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Old 06-21-2011, 02:02 PM   #718
mud
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In general, not really, no. You really don't want more float, though. Not moving your feet is really just something that's better to get used to, since you get so much more control if you don't/can't.

I'm personally a huge Eggbeater fan. Love those pedals.


--Donnie
I am going to give some new ones a shot. I just wanted to make sure what to expect.
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Old 06-21-2011, 04:00 PM   #719
GaryHarris
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Petals.
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Old 06-21-2011, 04:07 PM   #720
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Flats versus clipless is a timeless debate and mostly personal preference.

The only times I've failed to unclip were crashes where I was down so fast that I never had a chance to try, and in those cases it's just a nuisance that you're sort of "stuck" to the bike on your side.

--Donnie
This is exactly what happened to me, and the impact fractured my left femoral neck. I still have three stainless steel pins in my hip. I now have platforms on all six bicycles, since I don't want to do that again.
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