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Old 03-16-2009, 11:32 PM   #16
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wtf are you talking about?
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Old 03-17-2009, 12:20 AM   #17
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Cost of Entry

Dont forget the cost of entry, aka equipment. Also the time it takes you, opportunity cost. Some times it is cheaper just to buy the stuff. it all depends.
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Old 03-17-2009, 04:59 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by UPSam
Is it possible the don't know what they are selling? Swagged lead bullets are soft as hell. I have never heard of anyone casting a bullet that can't go beyond 800 fps BUT you will see more leading the faster it goes. I was shooting 8-10 gr of Unique and 7 gr is almost 900 fps. Really no leading.
At the last gun show I spoke with the guy that casts their bullets, and was told that they can no longer get the antimony needed for harder bullets at a reasonable price, so now all their bullets are geared toward Cowboy Action shooting.

Quote:
Casting might be a good idea if you are shooting high velocity competion. Long range. You could cast for rifle also. Sell your 223 and buy a 45-70 or some other buffalo gun.
The AR-15 is a keeper. Its my favorite all-purpose rifle, and there's nothing better during a zombie attack. The rifle I'm thinking of casting bullets for is my ancient Enfield 303. I tried it with reduced loads last weekend (9 grains of Bullseye), and it shot pretty accurately at 100 meters. Recoil was nearly non-existent. If I could bring the cost per round down, it would make a great plinker.

For NRA pistol competition, I need velocities in the range of 1200-1800 fps. I've seen articles saying that cast bullets can work up to about 2000 fps without leading, but my experience with cast lead is limited to my 45 ACP (800 fps with my own loads).

Quote:
Most surplus for 5.56 is good stuff. I used to buy that for -15-20c a round by the case. USA and the other 55gr cheap loads were about 20c too. Black Hills did have really good reloads with quality bullets for not much more. 500 rd cases in 50 rd boxes. I couldn't load much better on a single stage press
Any idea when prices might come back down? Local shooters tell me they can't even find .223 ammoe at stores these days, and MidwayUSA has them all on back order.
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Old 03-17-2009, 05:02 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Misery Goat
.40 SW winchester 165 gr are $30(incl tx)/100ct.

i don't think i can make an economic argument to buy a dillon xl 650.
Buy a cheap Lee hand press for ~$17. Mine is thirty years old, and I still use it for most of my loading requirements.
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Old 03-17-2009, 05:11 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by HardCase
I find that with some of the more oddball rounds like the belted magnums, or a handgun round like the 500 S&W, the savings can be considerably more than that.
In all the cost calculations, the bullet seems to be the most expensive component by far. I'd be curious to know how much you would save by casting your own bullets from discarded wheelweights.
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Old 03-17-2009, 05:15 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Stiner
Dont forget the cost of entry, aka equipment. Also the time it takes you, opportunity cost. Some times it is cheaper just to buy the stuff. it all depends.
Indeed it does. Most of my equipment is 30 years old and I reload while sitting in front of the television at night, so these costs are negligible in my case.
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Old 03-17-2009, 06:04 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius
In all the cost calculations, the bullet seems to be the most expensive component by far. I'd be curious to know how much you would save by casting your own bullets from discarded wheelweights.
Oh, absolutely. Casting your own bullets, if you have the materials or can get them cheap (discarded wheelweights, for example, although I hear those supplies are iffy anymore from many guys) saves much of that cost. However, for me it is currently just too much of a time-bandit. I currently devote about as much of my spare time as I am willing to this hobby/aspect of my life, so casting is not currently in the cards for me. Maybe when I retire in seven or eight years......my father passed away a couple of years ago and I have all of his old casting and reloading gear stored, so may have to haul it out. He also had several hundred pounds of alloy in his shop which I could use and which ought to keep me going for a fairly long time.
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Old 03-17-2009, 07:15 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UPSam
Is it possible the don't know what they are selling? Swagged lead bullets are soft as hell. I have never heard of anyone casting a bullet that can't go beyond 800 fps BUT you will see more leading the faster it goes. I was shooting 8-10 gr of Unique and 7 gr is almost 900 fps. Really no leading.

Casting might be a good idea if you are shooting high velocity competion. Long range. You could cast for rifle also. Sell your 223 and buy a 45-70 or some other buffalo gun.

Most surplus for 5.56 is good stuff. I used to buy that for -15-20c a round by the case. USA and the other 55gr cheap loads were about 20c too. Black Hills did have really good reloads with quality bullets for not much more. 500 rd cases in 50 rd boxes. I couldn't load much better on a single stage press
I use gas checks on some lead cast bullets .A gas check is a copper cup that fits on the base of the bullet so it does not cause a lot of leading.When you buy the mold make sure it is gas check compatible.Another point about reloading is not just the money you are saving ,but you are tailoring a load to get the most accuracy from the firearm you are shooting it in.
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Old 03-17-2009, 08:08 AM   #24
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For me, I don't count the time. It's a hobby that I enjoy doing. Cost saving is just a perk, it's kind of like gettting paid to ride my motorcycle. I get a few hours of alone time a week to relax, well worth the time. I just picked up everything I need to cast 240 gr 44 mag gas check bullets from Midway. It cost about as much as a box of Oregon Trail bullets, which I used to buy but cost + shipping is making jacketed bullets reasonable! I've tried others, but I run into leading issues in my SBH. I have a few sources for wheel weights, not to metion lead mining at the local range should keep me in boolits for quite some time.


As far as rifle cartridges, I started loading for my T/C Contender because the only factory ammoe was a flat nose 120 gr. Now I can stuff anything I want into the front. I picked up a set of dies for my 7mm-08 just because. I may even try loading some stuff for that too.
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:21 AM   #25
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I got out of loading a few years ago due to lifestyle change and cheap ammo availability. Lately I've been toying with getting back into it. Components are not cheap any more. Bullets are hard to find in the common calibers like 9mm and .40 s well as .223 and .308. The prices have risen dramatically over the last few months. Where we are now I have only found one shop in town that sells any loading components and he is out of primers, powder and slugs. He does have a few cases left.

The cost of lead is going up and I expect there will be some stringent restrictions regarding selling it due to it's hazardous toxic qualities. Lead is now such a boogieman that bullets are likely to be looked down upon as contamination to the land in any place they are being used. It's already happened with the water fowl issue in California that spread to other states.

I was very surprised to see a haz mat fee of over $22.00 is being added to any shipment of primers in any amount. That almost doubles the cost of 1,000 primers if you do an internet buy. That is provided you can find primers in stock.

FWIW the DLA has just instituted a policy regarding .223 (5.56 NATO)and .308 brass (7.62 NATO). It is to be "demilled" or rendered unusable for reloading before it is sold to scrap agencies. I expect this will have a dramatic effect on the price of reman loads in those 2 calibers.
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:31 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor31
I got out of loading a few years ago due to lifestyle change and cheap ammo availability. Lately I've been toying with getting back into it. Components are not cheap any more. Bullets are hard to find in the common calibers like 9mm and .40 s well as .223 and .308. The prices have risen dramatically over the last few months. Where we are now I have only found one shop in town that sells any loading components and he is out of primers, powder and slugs. He does have a few cases left.

The cost of lead is going up and I expect there will be some stringent restrictions regarding selling it due to it's hazardous toxic qualities. Lead is now such a boogieman that bullets are likely to be looked down upon as contamination to the land in any place they are being used. It's already happened with the water fowl issue in California that spread to other states.

I was very surprised to see a haz mat fee of over $22.00 is being added to any shipment of primers in any amount. That almost doubles the cost of 1,000 primers if you do an internet buy. That is provided you can find primers in stock.

FWIW the DLA has just instituted a policy regarding .223 (5.56 NATO)and .308 brass (7.62 NATO). It is to be "demilled" or rendered unusable for reloading before it is sold to scrap agencies. I expect this will have a dramatic effect on the price of reman loads in those 2 calibers.
I have not heard of the. 223 and .308 demilling situation.I am glad I have lots of .308 and 30.06 brass. I can always cut the 30.06 brass down to shoot in my .308 rifle.
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:32 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor31
I got out of loading a few years ago due to lifestyle change and cheap ammo availability. Lately I've been toying with getting back into it. Components are not cheap any more. Bullets are hard to find in the common calibers like 9mm and .40 s well as .223 and .308. The prices have risen dramatically over the last few months. Where we are now I have only found one shop in town that sells any loading components and he is out of primers, powder and slugs. He does have a few cases left.

The cost of lead is going up and I expect there will be some stringent restrictions regarding selling it due to it's hazardous toxic qualities. Lead is now such a boogieman that bullets are likely to be looked down upon as contamination to the land in any place they are being used. It's already happened with the water fowl issue in California that spread to other states.

I was very surprised to see a haz mat fee of over $22.00 is being added to any shipment of primers in any amount. That almost doubles the cost of 1,000 primers if you do an internet buy. That is provided you can find primers in stock.

FWIW the DLA has just instituted a policy regarding .223 (5.56 NATO)and .308 brass (7.62 NATO). It is to be "demilled" or rendered unusable for reloading before it is sold to scrap agencies. I expect this will have a dramatic effect on the price of reman loads in those 2 calibers.

Here's some info that I rec'd yesterday which deals at least tangentially with the matter to which you refer:

From Gun Week:

The State Department is apparently looking at ways to restrict the export and import of certain firearms and ammunition it considers to have a military purpose, and this apparently includes prohibitions on the export of bolt-action sporting rifles chambered in .308 Winchester. The Obama Administration may be quietly preparing to define what constitutes a so-called sniper rifle.

While this effort would ostensibly be designed to prevent the export of such rifles to areas abroad where they might wind up in the hands of rogue governments or terrorist groups, the potential exists that anti-gunners could use the “sniper rifle” definition to launch new gun control initiatives in this country.

The import and export restrictions can be imposed without consent of Congress. Any domestic ban on such rifles would require congressional action, especially in the wake of last year’s Supreme Court ruling on the Second Amendment.

Ratcheting down on imports and exports is “the first step” by the Obama White House and Clinton State Department to take action against the firearms industry. American gunmakers, including Savage, Remington, Winchester, Browning and Ruger, all do considerable overseas business with sporting rifles. There has already been one case of an American distributor being prevented from shipping three bolt-action hunting rifles chambered in .308 Winchester to Australia.

Reports of the impending crackdown first appeared in the Feb. 13 on-line edition of the Shooting Wire, which said Canadian officials have been quietly advised that the State Department “may be on the verge of cutting off all imports of certain calibers of ammunition.” Cartridges targeted by the alleged looming ban include the .50 BMG, 7.62x39mm, 7.62x51mm NATO, .308 Winchester, 5.56mm NATO and .223 Remington.

Shooting Wire also suggested that the ban might be expanded to include pistol cartridges including the 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP.

Sources in the industry have revealed that the State Department may also institute new requirements that include obtaining an “end use certificate” from the individual foreign buyer of an individual firearm on the use of the particular gun. This would require the American manufacturer to first obtain a certificate from a consumer in a foreign country about the use of a hunting rifle before the manufacturer or American distributor could obtain a license to export a particular gun.

The requirement would essentially be impossible to meet, because a manufacturer traditionally has no way of knowing who the retail buyer of a particular gun in another country might be, since firearms are exported to distributors, who then sell those guns to retailers, who in turn sell firearms to individual customers. It is almost identical to the way a firearm in America gets from the manufacturer to a consumer. It is typically not possible to determine who a buyer might be for a gun that is manufactured and shipped along the commercial chain months before someone buys it off a gun store rack.

While this effort right now appears aimed at curtailing foreign gun sales, it is the potential definition of a “sniper rifle” that could concern American gunowners. This definition will focus on barrel weight and diameter, caliber and even rifling twist.

Perhaps not coincidentally, rifles that could fall into the “sniper rifle” category are widely used by American sport shooters, hunters and competitors for everything from varmint hunting to benchrest shooting.

Such an effort would begin with an executive order cracking down on exports or imports of such firearms that would not require congressional attention, but could be used as a launch pad for a long-feared attack on “sniper rifles” in the United States. There has never been a detailed description of what constitutes a “sniper rifle.” Gun rights activists have long been concerned about possible legislation that would ultimately deem every scoped hunting rifle in America to be a “sniper rifle.”

Heavy-barrel bolt-action rifles designed to be used with telescopic sights are commonplace among varmint hunters. Likewise, benchrest shooters and other long range competitors use such rifles because of their inherent accuracy.

This article is provided free by GunWeek.com.

Not wanting to get all political in a thread about the economics of reloading, but this could have a bearing. Paranoia, or a harbinger of things to come? Guess time will tell. Stay tuned.
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:38 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by HardCase
Not wanting to get all political in a thread about the economics of reloading, but this could have a bearing. Paranoia, or a harbinger of things to come? Guess time will tell. Stay tuned.
I'm betting on 'paranoia'.
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Old 03-17-2009, 11:17 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Aurelius
In all the cost calculations, the bullet seems to be the most expensive component by far. I'd be curious to know how much you would save by casting your own bullets from discarded wheelweights.
I got all my lead from a scrap yard for my muzzleloader. You want pure lead for muzzleloading bullets which is a problem. Most scrap is an alloy which isn't a problem for you. Wheel weights used to be about right for pistol bullets
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Old 03-17-2009, 11:22 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Patriot4570
I use gas checks on some lead cast bullets .
Forgot about gas checks. The 44 bullets I used(240 gr) had the lip on the bottom for a gas check. They guy that made the bullets would install them when he sized them for a few $$ extra.
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