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Old 08-18-2010, 09:37 PM   #61
gpsoz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by af300e
It's all sounding very difficult. I have a 276c, oztopo v2 and the install was simple. For V3 I'll require NASA to customise it all? I quite like V2 and live with it's faults because it has many good points and is a locally based business. But if garmin topo becomes a much much easier option (as is well looking to be the case) then I'll probably not bother with V3.

Will waterways be displayed at up to 3km (the same as minor tracks) in V3? This is a significant issue for me and as the displays of units become larger and better resolution wider zoom levels make sense.
You missed an important point from the last post:

Now some existing customers may have a problem with this, ie non card based GPS units (60C etc) or units with small card capacities (276c) and we will work with these customers to come up with a solution for them.


We not going to leave you as a shag on a rock! We have some solutions in mind which can be provided on a case/model by case/model basis. These will similar to what you are familiar with with 2.1. I'm getting the impression that this is a fairly technical audience here, which is fine. But don't forget that the majority, 90%, of our customers wouldn't even know what you and I are talking about! At some point I have to take off my technical hat and put on a business one! I personally have a 276c, which we are using for our V3 testing. So you can sleep an night knowing that V3 will work perfectly on a 276c!!

thanks for the feedback.

cheers
brian

gpsoz screwed with this post 08-18-2010 at 10:29 PM
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Old 08-18-2010, 11:20 PM   #62
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Sweet!
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Old 08-19-2010, 11:48 PM   #63
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Negotiable

When negotiating I think it is very useful to let the other party know what
you want.

I want a mapping system that will
1. allow me to route in a variable fashion - fastest, off road, no tolls,
no u turns etc
2. to view low level detail at different zoom levels so I can get an
overview of tracks in the bush when I'm zoomed way out.
3. If I can't see the forest for the trees then I want
to be able to thin the forest so to speak i.e. remove detail.
4. I want to create a route on my PC and download it to the GPS
and not have it recalculated unless I tell it to.
5. If I upgrade my GPS I want to be able to load the maps that I
have paid for onto my new GPS.
6. If I don't like my new set-up be it hardware (GPS) or software (maps)
I want to be able to revert to my previous set up.
7. If I lose my tiny little card I want to be able to recreate it from
data on a nice big disk stored at home in a safe place.

I have an old version of City Navigator and an old version of OZtopo
and a Garmin GPSmapCX or something like that without the S.
Most of the time I run around State Forests with City Navigator.

Because that software didn't give me what I wanted I loaded some
Shonky maps as well as some Tracks For Australia and I switch between
them when the need arises, which I don't want to.

I am not dishonest and I have no wish to give my friends access to stuff
that I have paid for that they shouldn't have; but I would like to be able
to re-use stuff that I have paid for.

So there; that's what I want.

What do you want?
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Old 08-20-2010, 04:40 AM   #64
af300e
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MungoP
I want a mapping system that will
1. allow me to route in a variable fashion - fastest, off road, no tolls,
no u turns etc
2. to view low level detail at different zoom levels so I can get an
overview of tracks in the bush when I'm zoomed way out.
3. If I can't see the forest for the trees then I want
to be able to thin the forest so to speak i.e. remove detail.
4. I want to create a route on my PC and download it to the GPS
and not have it recalculated unless I tell it to.
5. If I upgrade my GPS I want to be able to load the maps that I
have paid for onto my new GPS.
6. If I don't like my new set-up be it hardware (GPS) or software (maps)
I want to be able to revert to my previous set up.
7. If I lose my tiny little card I want to be able to recreate it from
data on a nice big disk stored at home in a safe place.
Sounds perfect. Taking the software on to the next unit one purchases would be great as would the option of reloading the software onto a new unit should the old one be stolen. That was the way the magellan stuff I had worked.

As far as I'm concerned, 2 first and then 3 are the most important points.
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Old 08-22-2010, 06:53 PM   #65
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Laugh

I agree Mungo.
I bought a "technical" GPS because the consumer-grade ones don't do what I need, not even close. I did my research and it does what I want it to. Very similar requirements to yours (and a fair few others I know).
What I absolutely WON'T be doing is kneecapping my existing functionality to obtain a small incremental advantage in one area. That is just plain stupid.
I have the feeling I'll be happily staying with what I have, unless I have hard evidence that any upgrade isn't going to cause me grief, or never-ending support issues. I like having control over what I load to my GPS.
Working in IT I am extremely wary of any proprietary solution that excludes others, and similarly I demand hard evidence that something does as promised, otherwise it's "vapour-ware" in IT-speak. I still don't really understand the motivation behind the single-product mindset of OZTopo v3, maybe it's a reaction to piracy, I dunno because I haven't seen or heard of it, but that's the only reason I can think of that would motivate such a move, and just like some of the draconian DRM stuff in the IT world it will drive away legitimate customers in droves, and become a "badge of honour" challenge to the e-crims (who always win, BTW).
As the old saying goes, "If it ain't broke,....."
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:30 PM   #66
gpsoz
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Good healthy thread guys - we're listening

Can you expand on "behind the single-product mindset of OZTopo v3" please?

thanks
brian
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:48 PM   #67
af300e
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpsoz
Good healthy thread guys - we're listening

Can you expand on "behind the single-product mindset of OZTopo v3" please?

thanks
brian
I think he's referring to the issue with having only oztopo on a particular card/unit unless the custom approach is employed (where you guys take the card and load all the required/desired software onto it).
That's what you description of V3 sounded like to me, maybe i've misunderstood?
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:09 PM   #68
gpsoz
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From OZtopo's point of view:

I want a mapping system that will
1. allow me to route in a variable fashion - fastest, off road, no tolls,
no u turns etc

Will never happen. The data we have reviewed is poor. There are too many roads typed grouped together, ie dirt roads, tracks, 4WD tracks. So sending someone down a dirt road could lead to all sort of issues. Likewise GPS's only distinguish between sealed and unsealed roads. We (and you) need them to distinguish across a much broader road type.

2. to view low level detail at different zoom levels so I can get an
overview of tracks in the bush when I'm zoomed way out.
Yes in hand. Does make the data set much larger and hence becomes problematic for smaller memory units.

3. If I can't see the forest for the trees then I want
to be able to thin the forest so to speak i.e. remove detail.
Function of the GPS, map detail settings.

4. I want to create a route on my PC and download it to the GPS
and not have it recalculated unless I tell it to.
Well this is tricky. You must have identical maps on both the GPS and the PC and BOTH must have the same routing capabilities. eg Have you noticed that in MapSource you can bias (not on and off) your route calculations away from highways? You can't do that on any GPS unit that I know of. There are many routing options in MapSource that are not available in GPS units. Routing algorithms are different in MapSource than most GPS units and algorithms are also different from model to model.

5. If I upgrade my GPS I want to be able to load the maps that I
have paid for onto my new GPS.
Current licenses don't allow us to do this. It imposed on us from our Data suppliers. However they are listening and we are working on some changes.

6. If I don't like my new set-up be it hardware (GPS) or software (maps)
I want to be able to revert to my previous set up.
Agree - this should be your call but at some stage software developers will take advantage of new hardware features so that will certainly influence your ability to back off.

7. If I lose my tiny little card I want to be able to recreate it from
data on a nice big disk stored at home in a safe place.
I'm not sure if I have answer for this. I understand your desire but as I said 90%+ of our customers aren't capable, understand or interested in the process. They leave the card in the unit 100% of the time.

I am not dishonest and I have no wish to give my friends access to stuff
that I have paid for that they shouldn't have

Thats great. Can you help me convince the other group of people out there? :-)

cheers
brian
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:31 AM   #69
GodSilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpsoz
Good healthy thread guys - we're listening

Can you expand on "behind the single-product mindset of OZTopo v3" please?

thanks
brian
Sure. af300e pretty much got it:
"I think he's referring to the issue with having only oztopo on a particular card/unit unless the custom approach is employed (where you guys take the card and load all the required/desired software onto it).
That's what you description of V3 sounded like to me, maybe i've misunderstood?"

I have 4 microSD cards, 2 have the full load of maps I have available (1 live, 1 backup), and 2 are custom jobbies with a mixture of map tiles from various products. That is one of the selling points for me, the ability to cutomise my various mapsets into .img files that suit my purposes. With v3 it seems I can only run a microSD card with v3, or I need to have you customise my mapsets as I go. I don't need to rely on outside assistance now, so I'm left wondering why in earth I'd pay good money to become reliant on another party for map customisation? It just doesn't make sense to me personally. I understand where you're coming from Brian with your 90% of customers whose only skill is to find the on/off button, but I'm not one of them.
With the current state of play I won't be upgrading, that's my personal choice. As stated, I can't see the sense in forking out for an upgrade of one product that disables other major and basic functionality of my unit and software.
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Old 08-24-2010, 01:21 AM   #70
gpsoz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GodSilla
Sure. af300e pretty much got it:
"I think he's referring to the issue with having only oztopo on a particular card/unit unless the custom approach is employed (where you guys take the card and load all the required/desired software onto it).
That's what you description of V3 sounded like to me, maybe i've misunderstood?"

I have 4 microSD cards, 2 have the full load of maps I have available (1 live, 1 backup), and 2 are custom jobbies with a mixture of map tiles from various products. That is one of the selling points for me, the ability to cutomise my various mapsets into .img files that suit my purposes. With v3 it seems I can only run a microSD card with v3, or I need to have you customise my mapsets as I go. I don't need to rely on outside assistance now, so I'm left wondering why in earth I'd pay good money to become reliant on another party for map customisation? It just doesn't make sense to me personally. I understand where you're coming from Brian with your 90% of customers whose only skill is to find the on/off button, but I'm not one of them.
With the current state of play I won't be upgrading, that's my personal choice. As stated, I can't see the sense in forking out for an upgrade of one product that disables other major and basic functionality of my unit and software.
Just be aware that Garmin is making changes (deliberate) to both firmware and their PC/MAC software that will make V2.1 inoperable. This may force you to V3 (yes yes I know all very messy and not what you want to hear but blame Garmin). However don't forget that we can accommodate "special" customers that are used to V2.1 functionality. It just wont be an off the shelf version.

cheers
brian
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Old 08-24-2010, 04:01 PM   #71
GodSilla
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Thanks Brian for the info on Garmin's changes. I've been following them with some interest, and frankly I won't be applying any more of their upgrades to my gps, it is stable as it is and does what I need now that version 4 of their software supports 4Gb cards and 2Gb .img files.
As a general comment, I don't understand some of what Garmin does as a customer, and I wonder about the business drivers for some of their changes. In a competitive space, why do they keep alienating their customers?
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Old 09-08-2010, 01:14 AM   #72
gpsoz
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Just in case people are wondering what V3 may look like:

http://www.oztopo.com/v3

Also did anybody read Garmin's post for supporting more than one .img file on handhelds units:

http://garmin.blogs.com/softwareupdates/trail-tech/

Also Topo Australia 2010 rumour number 465 is that doesn't work on Nuvi's

cheers
brian

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Old 09-09-2010, 01:48 AM   #73
GodSilla
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Thanks for the link Brian, the multiple .img files is a good feature that my 60 series sadly won't support.

On another note, I bought a 60 from GPSOZ, and it never turned on by hand from new. A mate has the same with his. So, being a bloke, I just poked at the button with my bike key. Here I am, 2 years later, and the rubber cover has split for the on/off switch.

I was hoping Garmin were abundantly aware of this chronic problem (seeing as their customers are), and would offer to fix it for a nominal fee, but no. The guy on the phone was less than customer-focussed, lets say, and it's $195 for a refurb unit. That's for a GPS I can (and will) buy brand new, in the box, with all the ancillaries, for $299, with 12 months warranty.

My problem is that I don't know where to source the rubber button cover from. Anyone got any ideas? I'll fix it myself if I can get the part.
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Old 09-09-2010, 03:13 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GodSilla
My problem is that I don't know where to source the rubber button cover from. Anyone got any ideas? I'll fix it myself if I can get the part.
From the same shelf as the 100mph tape
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Old 09-09-2010, 04:42 PM   #75
GodSilla
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Quote:
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From the same shelf as the 100mph tape
Improvising the part is a distinct possibility, but using the correct part is preferable. I've only got 99mph tape (cheap chinese stuff).
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