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Old 06-20-2012, 03:29 PM   #1306
Jimmy the Heater
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Just to clarify when I said I took my GF and I to the track to have fun on, it was just that. No one else there on a weekday and driving around. Not a race. Playing with the Losi springs to get rid of the progressive body roll that is built into the stock truck. We were both traction rolling way too easy.

Gonna cover several topics in this post, hope it doesn't get confusing.

As for a replacement for the stock Traxxas brushless esc, check out hobbypartz.com They have some insane deals there on motors and esc's. Anything 60amp or above should run the Velineon just fine. Jang from ultimate rc has done several reviews on them and they have been stellar. Right around 50-80 bucks depending on model.
http://youtu.be/ZH3geZwqdtc

Speaking of the Traxxas VXL system I have a couple of observations on it when used in my Slash 4x4. I really don't think this motor esc combo is a good fit in the 4x4. The way it delivers power seems more suited to 2wd. A little weak down low even when geared to the lowest it can and then a big top end rush. Plus it runs quite warm when pushing the weight of the 4wd around. So here is what I'm thinking, move the VXL system to my GF's Brushed Slash and do the following for myself. (still in the planning stages mind you)
Going from the stock 3500kv motor, down to a 1750kv (half value) and then going to a 4s 2500mah lipo to double the voltage going to it. My theory is this. Lower kv with higher voltage should result in a much torquier, cooler running motor. ESC would also run cooler. Mathematically a 4s 2500mah battery can perform the same work as a 5000mah 2s lipo so I won't loose any run time. In theory anyway. Basically running a 1/8th scale drive system in a slightly smaller and lighter package. Has anyone here done such a change?

Last topic change, and I hope it doesn't get lost with all the babbling up above.
I was watching some 1/5th scale videos just to see what the top end of the hobby looks like and I noticed a trend. The HPI Baja and Losi 5T come with 23 or 30cc spark ignited 2 strokes. People are then modifying these with big bore kits, custom intakes etc to get more power. There was one guy that had spend well over 2 grand to get his up to 60cc and was constantly having to tune it. Now lets think about this for a second. Can anyone here in the motorcycle world think of another source for small displacement two stroke engines?
2 that come to mind are from the 65 and 85 cc bike classes and another is a big chainsaw engine. The minibike engine would have the advantage of being watercooled but you would have to figure out a way to clutch and shift the tranny or just do away with it all together.
The chainsaw engine would be pull start, air cooled and some of them can easily get above 100cc's. All for a hell of a lot less than $2500. Wonder why no one has looked into these other engine options. The models now are getting so large that they don't need to specialize/miniaturize as much as they used to.
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:09 PM   #1307
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Regarding your motor swap idea in the Slash 4x4....don't do it that way necessarily.

You need to look at the C rating of a battery to determine what kind of amperage it can supply, C rating multiplied by capacity/1000 is the amperage that battery can supply. If you got a 2000-3000 KV 550 can motor and ran it on 4 cells it would draw in the neighborhood of 100 amps +, the stock motor draws up to 90 amps peak on a 2 cell (ran a race with an onboard data logger to confirm).


A powerful cool running motor is the Castle 1410 3800 KV. It is best suited to 2 cell running and in a racing environment on an 80 degree day it was running 120 degrees geared 14/54 with only a 20 minute cool down between runs.

The Tenshock SC 401 and SC411 motors are supposed to be great as well for $60 to $90 depending on model.


I personally run a brushlesshobbies.com 120 amp esc in 2 of my Slash 4x4's, one powering the Castle 1410 mentioned above and one powering a Tenshock SC411 as soon as my connectors get here.


You said it yourself, the Slash 4x4 is a bit heavy, to push a heavy thing fast requires power, lots of it. You need high capacity high C rated packs regardless of number of cells or else everything gets hot because the motor draws more amps to compensate for a sag in voltage.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:52 PM   #1308
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Also consider that your 1750KV motor will roughly put out double the torque of the 3500KV motor, then you want to run it on 4s. I was twisting the stock shafts with the stock 3500 VXL on 2s so I upgraded all four corners of my Slash 4x4 to MIP shafts. They are holding up just fine now and can probably handle 4s but I'm pretty sure something else would let go.



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Old 06-21-2012, 04:00 AM   #1309
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I just finished the little skyangel (hobby king) Panther....it looks like it might be a good little plane. (sorry no pics yet).

And little is the word for it...I think it is around a 700mm wing span, it is a little rough, and I think that the nose is a little fat but it is close enough.

The wife showed up with the PZ Albatross for my B-day (yesterday) so now I am not sure if I am going to build the Phantom next or the Albatross.....and I also have to get some more rec. on order....guess that means another HK order....and you know I will just have to fill up that box

Might just have to get something for that albatros to fight....or that new pioneer or the DH comet looks pretty darn nice.
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:33 AM   #1310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy the Heater View Post

Last topic change, and I hope it doesn't get lost with all the babbling up above.
I was watching some 1/5th scale videos just to see what the top end of the hobby looks like and I noticed a trend. The HPI Baja and Losi 5T come with 23 or 30cc spark ignited 2 strokes. People are then modifying these with big bore kits, custom intakes etc to get more power. There was one guy that had spend well over 2 grand to get his up to 60cc and was constantly having to tune it. Now lets think about this for a second. Can anyone here in the motorcycle world think of another source for small displacement two stroke engines?
2 that come to mind are from the 65 and 85 cc bike classes and another is a big chainsaw engine. The minibike engine would have the advantage of being watercooled but you would have to figure out a way to clutch and shift the tranny or just do away with it all together.
The chainsaw engine would be pull start, air cooled and some of them can easily get above 100cc's. All for a hell of a lot less than $2500. Wonder why no one has looked into these other engine options. The models now are getting so large that they don't need to specialize/miniaturize as much as they used to.
You MIGHT be able to make it cheaply if you use an air cooled auto-clutch motor from a small bike. I think one of the problems you will run into though is the engines are a lot HEAVIER, meaning everything else is going to have to be way beefier- suspension, frame, drive, tires, etc. That all equates into a lot more $$$. Just my .02.
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:31 AM   #1311
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So it turns out I don't need a new ESC for my Slash after all. I got to looking things over, checking all the wires and connections. With a small battery connected directly to the receiver, the LED was flashing but there was no response to the controls. I re-bound it, and now everything works!!

I'm a bit confused about how it could lose bind, but I'm happy I don't have to spend another 100 bucks!
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:32 AM   #1312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FPGT72 View Post
I just finished the little skyangel (hobby king) Panther....it looks like it might be a good little plane. (sorry no pics yet).

And little is the word for it...I think it is around a 700mm wing span, it is a little rough, and I think that the nose is a little fat but it is close enough.
Congrats! I'm interested in pics. 700 is small? My little F-86 has a 381mm span.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:13 PM   #1313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DakarNick View Post
Congrats! I'm interestes in pics. 700 is small? My little F-86 has a 381mm span.
To me anything under 1300 mm is small. You guys are talking micro. My latest plane is a bit over 1800mm.
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Old 06-21-2012, 03:22 PM   #1314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DakarNick View Post
Congrats! I'm interested in pics. 700 is small? My little F-86 has a 381mm span.
Here ya go....I also tossed in my Alfa P-39....I have been flying the wings off the alfa....I bet I have around 50+ flights on the thing already. I was a little worried about the "old school" foam but not a mishap yet...but I do fly it different then my PZ planes for example....but then again my PZ planes are all pretty old so I tend to fly them like the old ladies they are.....anyway on to the photos....I included one with the transmitter so you could get a feel for the size....hopefully this weekend I can get it in the air if the wind ever dies down.

On the panther I think the nose is a little fat, but you could cram a 2200 in there if you wanted....not that it would fly well, but it would fit space wise. Also the behind is a little large in scale next to a real panther....little things I think, but I want to say what I can about the model if anyone wants one. Everything worked right out of the box and the edf was a little scratchy at first but now it sounds smooth as glass....perhaps a little epoxy in there from being built...don't know.

I will give a flight report.

BTW I still have to get that big FMS Stuka off the ground....been flying the little planes as I have just felt too crappy to actually go somewhere to fly.....ticks me off I live on 13a, and have 20 on both sides, but so many trees....plane eating trees.

PS....yes I still fly FM dang it




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Old 06-21-2012, 04:07 PM   #1315
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That's a nice Panther! Here's to happy and fun flying!

I picked up an $8 rubberband launch Guillows foamy space shuttle I'm going to convert to a brushless pusher with E-Flite AS3X gyro.
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Old 06-21-2012, 07:09 PM   #1316
Jimmy the Heater
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Hummmm that is odd. I could have sworn if you double the voltage from 7.2 volts to 14.4 that you would halve the amp draw. So the C rating on the batteries could effectively be halved as well. A 7.2 batt with a 40c rating (what I normally run without issue) could then be changed to a 14.4 with a 20c rating correct? Though 20c batteries are pretty low end...I would feel more comfortable with a 25c at least.

For an internal combustion analogy the way I'm kinda looking at it is I want to replace the turbo 4 gas engine with the v8 diesel. Going from HP to Torque will put different stresses on the drivetrain and that could very well be the fly in the ointment. I still have a little bit of time to consider this tho as the GF is still getting along plenty well with the 12t in her 2wd Slash.

Dorkpunch-That is one thing I didn't think of, the additional weight of say an 65cc mini engine with accompanying transmission vs the stock Zenoah that they come with. That could kill any performance gain that the larger engine would provide right there. Chainsaw engine is still in the running I think, they are pretty damn light once they are pulled out of the saw itself.
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:35 PM   #1317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy the Heater View Post
Hummmm that is odd. I could have sworn if you double the voltage from 7.2 volts to 14.4 that you would halve the amp draw.
Only by changing to a motor that was outputting the same number of watts.
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:52 PM   #1318
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Originally Posted by Jimmy the Heater View Post

Dorkpunch-That is one thing I didn't think of, the additional weight of say an 65cc mini engine with accompanying transmission vs the stock Zenoah that they come with. That could kill any performance gain that the larger engine would provide right there. Chainsaw engine is still in the running I think, they are pretty damn light once they are pulled out of the saw itself.

Yup, I think the chainsaw would be the best bet- already have an auto clutch but it might be hard to adapt one to run a "normal" chain. I've got an old Husky in the garage that has a 100cc motor. Lot like this one but bigger.



Once you loose the bar, the spikes, handle, etc, they do lighten up considerably but they are still pretty heavy...

back to your regularly scheduled R/C's.
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:15 AM   #1319
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If you ditch the magneto and convert to cdi you save a ton of weight as well. And mill down the extra stuff on the motor that isnt needed.
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:03 AM   #1320
FPGT72
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Originally Posted by Jimmy the Heater View Post
Last topic change, and I hope it doesn't get lost with all the babbling up above.
I was watching some 1/5th scale videos just to see what the top end of the hobby looks like and I noticed a trend. The HPI Baja and Losi 5T come with 23 or 30cc spark ignited 2 strokes. People are then modifying these with big bore kits, custom intakes etc to get more power. There was one guy that had spend well over 2 grand to get his up to 60cc and was constantly having to tune it. Now lets think about this for a second. Can anyone here in the motorcycle world think of another source for small displacement two stroke engines?
2 that come to mind are from the 65 and 85 cc bike classes and another is a big chainsaw engine. The minibike engine would have the advantage of being watercooled but you would have to figure out a way to clutch and shift the tranny or just do away with it all together.
The chainsaw engine would be pull start, air cooled and some of them can easily get above 100cc's. All for a hell of a lot less than $2500. Wonder why no one has looked into these other engine options. The models now are getting so large that they don't need to specialize/miniaturize as much as they used to.
I have one of the first imports 5B clones, and can say the thing is a screamer. For the life of me I can't se why anyone would want more power...yea yea I know, but there comes a point where you just go....whats the point.

My buggy with the 23 knockoff chinese engine will shread the turf like crazy...think of farming the yard in 1/5 scale....this is what this thing does. They are not light cars, but they do get up on clip pretty darn quick.

I just don't see how the small buggy would take much more weight without having to start upgrades to the rest of the buggy.

This is one thing I have just left well enough alone.
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