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Old 10-01-2012, 09:03 AM   #16681
dolomoto
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Originally Posted by RidingDonkeys View Post
...snipped... I've now taken several more MSF classes, and all the instructors say the same, all four fingers should cover the handles. None, and I mean none, have ever been able to give me a reason why.
...snipped...
So, what is the importance of having all four fingers on the controls?
Most people can squeeze harder with four fingers vs. two.

Additionally, many riders use two fingers..but not the two you may be thinking of (the first two). Some folks use the ring and pinky finger to squeeze the brake lever. Encouraging these riders to use all four fingers gives them a chance at squeezing the brake lever hard enough to save their life.

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Old 10-01-2012, 09:03 AM   #16682
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Originally Posted by RDTCU View Post
... I two-finger everything.
Even the ladies?
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:10 AM   #16683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheedle View Post
Knee down is not anywhere near the point of no return... if you know what the fuck you are doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
That bike doesn't look like it is at its cornering limit.

Most of the riders pictured in this thread running wide and off the road, or running into the opposite lane at corner exit when somebody else is coming, are on cruisers that are leaning a lot less. And many (not all) of their accidents were from not leaning enough.

I don't have any gripe about the bike in the picture.
I guess I should have explained that my comment was not aimed specifically at the dood in the pic... but it's all good because he was having his picture taken.



Carry on...
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:20 AM   #16684
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Originally Posted by Low Down View Post
All I know is that if you need to drag a knee puck on the asphalt, you need to take the shit to the track. Sorry for sounding like some stingy old fuck, but it bothers the shit outta me that people get on their bikes and push them to the point of no return (while others are using the same roads some riders are using as a track). No bueno.




Let me guess, you ride a Hardley???

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Old 10-01-2012, 09:22 AM   #16685
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Originally Posted by RidingDonkeys View Post
None of the motorcycles I've owned in thirteen years or riding have ever needed more than a slight tug to engage the clutch or front brake, and none have ever had to be pulled back to the bars to be engaged.
Either I've got weak fingers (NOT) or my bikes have strong clutch springs. You ain't disengaging my clutches with one finger. When I had Huskys I usually shifted w/o the clutch, but not my road bikes.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:57 AM   #16686
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Even the ladies?
Well yeah, I'm always a gentleman...
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:05 AM   #16687
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Originally Posted by Benesesso View Post
Either I've got weak fingers (NOT) or my bikes have strong clutch springs. You ain't disengaging my clutches with one finger. When I had Huskys I usually shifted w/o the clutch, but not my road bikes.
My 630's got a hydraulic clutch
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:17 AM   #16688
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
She looks appropriately dressed, and is learning...

Jim
I wouldn't assume she's anything but an experienced rider as well.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:18 AM   #16689
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Originally Posted by RDTCU View Post
My 630's got a hydraulic clutch
Hydraulics don't necessarily make it easier. One of the first things most new Ducati owners do is to change the slave cylinder to make the clutch pull lighter. All a hydraulic setup does is eliminate cable problems. The force/travel tradeoff remains the same because your hand still provides all of the power to operate the clutch.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:34 AM   #16690
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Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
Hydraulics don't necessarily make it easier. One of the first things most new Ducati owners do is to change the slave cylinder to make the clutch pull lighter. All a hydraulic setup does is eliminate cable problems. The force/travel tradeoff remains the same because your hand still provides all of the power to operate the clutch.
But you don't get the cable drag, which helps a bit. I could one-finger my clutch to the bar, and even though it's fairly light, I cramped up my hand out walking it up a slick grass/mud hill slipping the clutch.

(On a side note, Pilot Powers aren't too hot in mud...)
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:45 AM   #16691
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Originally Posted by RDTCU View Post
But you don't get the cable drag, which helps a bit. I could one-finger my clutch to the bar, and even though it's fairly light, I cramped up my hand out walking it up a slick grass/mud hill slipping the clutch.

(On a side note, Pilot Powers aren't too hot in mud...)
A lot of cable drag is a function of cable routing and securing methods. Forcing the cable to make tight bends and tying it down tight will make it drag badly. I like to just secure it enough so it doesn't get caught in a steering stop or touch a hot pipe. Using a teflon lined cable is also a good idea.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:49 AM   #16692
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Originally Posted by Human Ills View Post
I wouldn't assume she's anything but an experienced rider as well.
She certainly could be. The only reason I didn't assume is because she did not appear to be leaning quite correctly with the rider. They should, IMHO, be locked to eachother, with he head over his inside shoulder.

Jim
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:35 AM   #16693
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Originally Posted by RidingDonkeys View Post
Probably not the right forum here, but I'll bring it up because this question has been nagging me.

I rode bicycles long before I touched a motorcycle. Ultralight road bicycles stop a lot faster than the rider on top of them. It takes very little pressure on the brakes to fully engage them. One finger will lock them if you aren't careful. At high speeds, I would often find myself reaching out with just my pinky to pull the brakes a little to slow down. Never, and I mean never, did I need more than a finger to get full stopping power, and never did my brake handles need to be pulled all the way back to the handlebars to be fully engaged.

Fast forward, and I'm learning to ride a motorcycle. I adopted the same mentality. None of the motorcycles I've owned in thirteen years or riding have ever needed more than a slight tug to engage the clutch or front brake, and none have ever had to be pulled back to the bars to be engaged. I finally took an MSF class and the instructors corrected me for this. I've now taken several more MSF classes, and all the instructors say the same, all four fingers should cover the handles. None, and I mean none, have ever been able to give me a reason why.

When I'm on my sidecar rigs, I'm constantly throwing my body off the tug to counterbalance the weight of the sidecar. Sometimes you need a little more grip on the bars to put yourself back in position, but still need to maintain some control of the clutch for an emergency scenario. The one finger approach works great.

On my hardtails and my cafe racer, keeping all four off the controls works just fine. I've never pinched a finger, had trouble engaging a brake or clutch, etc.

So, what is the importance of having all four fingers on the controls?
Four fingers on the levers allows for a more exact feel/more fine-tune touch. That is why this method is "preached" in the BRC. If I have what seems to be an experienced rider in the BRC, and he wants to use two fingers, fine by me. There are many times I only use my index and middle finger. Mostly, though, I use all four. This is in regards to the brakes. For the clutch, I don't think I have ever intentionally used less than all four.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:56 AM   #16694
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Originally Posted by TheWorstKind View Post
Four fingers on the levers allows for a more exact feel/more fine-tune touch. That is why this method is "preached" in the BRC. If I have what seems to be an experienced rider in the BRC, and he wants to use two fingers, fine by me. There are many times I only use my index and middle finger. Mostly, though, I use all four. This is in regards to the brakes. For the clutch, I don't think I have ever intentionally used less than all four.
It's all great, til you're trying to have a fine touch with four fingers, and you hit a rough patch and the front tries to stuff or wash, then you have either no grip on the bar (other than your thumb) or you grab a handful of clutch or front brake trying to keep the front in check...
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:08 PM   #16695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Low Down View Post
All I know is that if you need to drag a knee puck on the asphalt, you need to take the shit to the track. Sorry for sounding like some stingy old fuck, but it bothers the shit outta me that people get on their bikes and push them to the point of no return (while others are using the same roads some riders are using as a track). No bueno.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 100mpg View Post
Bingo. No one has ANY argument against this. It is impossible. There are laws on the street such as speed limits and reckless driving. There are accidents all the time, all over the world and it is only because someone is doing something they are not supposed to be doing. And one of those things is dragging a knee.

Sure, you can do it and go to bed with a smile on your face with the thought of that great ride, but it don't always work out that way.
Awwwwwww!!! Do you two need some scuffed up knee pucks? I have a few laying around I will send you each one so you can show your friends how awesome you are!

Since when did putting a knee down become verboten? Is it any different than riding a bike on the draggin, clearly not designed for cornering (cough - cruiser - cough - cough) and dragging hard parts?
And since when did having a knee down become "At the Limit"?

Do you also get thou panties in a twist when someone does a wheelie? The HORROR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benesesso View Post
Either I've got weak fingers (NOT) or my bikes have strong clutch springs. You ain't disengaging my clutches with one finger. When I had Huskys I usually shifted w/o the clutch, but not my road bikes.
Hydraulic clutch on the KTM is a one/two finger deal.
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