Killboy failure Dragon Fest

[txwanderer]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

they are not *correcting" you.

they are preaching the MSF dogma to you...some of them probably have some idea of why, some probably do not (other than "that's what the book says").

it's probably a good way to teach newbies how to ride a bike and not accidentally apply the throttle and front brake at the same time, etc.

but it is not the "correct" (or incorrect) way of doing things.

i can give you lots of reasons why an *experienced* rider should only use 1 or 2 fingers on the clutch and brake. i cannot give you any reasons why an *experienced* rider should use all 4 (unless, of course, riding a bike with such shitty front brakes or such a hard clutch pull that you need all 4--er actually 3 since the pinky doesn't add anything--to muster the required force)...though someone else might be able to.

at any rate, the point is...just because the MSF tells you "do it this way" does not mean that is the best way to do it. insisting that people do not cover the brake and clutch...and then use all 4 fingers when it comes time to use the brake or clutch...is just one of a few things them MSF probably gets right for newbies, but not for experienced riders.

Well, you have half the story right. most don't understand "why" it should be that way. However there is a reason, actually a couple of them.
First and not most important, if you use your first two fingers you could run into interference by hitting the two on the grip. Causing an incomplete clutch throw, or worse on the brake handle and lose some of the braking ability.
Second and more important, is body mechanics. This is what is difficult to explain, but easy to demonstrate. The ring and pinky fingers are built for strength and stability, and it doesn't stop at the grip The pointer and middle finger are used for more complex actions such as writing, and have much smaller muscle and tendon structure for the complexity of movement. It is also much easier to demonstrate the body's stability in person, but your body is much more stable when clenching the ring and pinky into a fist. Short story, it is all about balance and strength.
I agree there may not be a "right or wrong" way but there are better and not so much better ways.

Cheers

[RDTCU]

My solution...
And I milled some serrations on the front for a bit more grip. A lot easier to bang down a couple gears or clutch the front up without losing grip on the bars ...

[dwoodward]

Originally Posted by daveinva

They all say, "This is what's best for beginners. Once you've got practice and more experience under your belt, there are other ways to do things, we encourage you to get advanced rider training to improve your skills."

Come to Oregon... although we're not MSF.

[dwoodward]

Originally Posted by ErikY.

[Kleigh]
Dost thou also get thy panties in a twist.
[/Kleigh]

Better.

[Lobster Grrl]

Originally Posted by Bill Harris

New Killbiy album up (mostly Landscapery) with some motorbike pics:

What a great shot! and great form too

lg

[dwoodward]

Originally Posted by shovelstrokeed

Take my former Tuono Factory out on the road and grab 4 fingers of front brake. Go ahead, I dare ya.
You'll either find yourself with a locked front wheel, not fun but recoverable, or upside down with the bike on top of you and your head facing back from whence you came. Can you say mouse trap?

Can you say learn not to GRAB the brakes?

[RDTCU]

Originally Posted by dwoodward

Can you say learn not to GRAB the brakes?

[tedder]

Originally Posted by dwoodward

Can you say learn not to GRAB the brakes?

Or keep saying it but get ABS.

[PSYCHO II]

Originally Posted by dwoodward

Can you say learn not to GRAB the brakes?

Ah yes this is the funeral I was after. I love it when they think that four fingers means "white knuckles". These people discredited themselves with their circular arguments and "grabbing" comments and .. oh.. oh... my favourite... "when I used to race" .....

Most of the questions people put forward here are about "best techniques" that put you at "lowest risk" on the public road. Then some clown comes in and says "forget survive the ride" let's go for a podium finish. Wrong tool for the job.. but then again what would you expect from a "tool".

"Best Practice" requires a definition of what you require for the benchmark.... On the public road perhaps I might be so bold to suggest that "Arrive Alive" might be a reasonable starting point. This then might lead me to the conclusion that ALL braking be done in a straight line, that ALL gear changing be done in a straight line and finally set your entry speed as constant through the whole corner... start out wide for vision, buffer from the "head on zone" and aim to finish tight. At all times buffer from any oncoming vehicles even if this means reducing your entry speed.

Of course this approach would mean that you would run "stone cold motherless last" in a competitive racing situation. Go for the "podium finish" on the "public road" and it may be a "stainless steel autopsy table" is the prize that you get. You'll be "stone cold"

[xtphreak]

Originally Posted by ttpete

Hydraulics don't necessarily make it easier. One of the first things most new Ducati owners do is to change the slave cylinder to make the clutch pull lighter. All a hydraulic setup does is eliminate cable problems. The force/travel tradeoff remains the same because your hand still provides all of the power to operate the clutch.

Maybe you should review hydraulics 101 again

Why do they change the slave cylinder? to make the clutch pull lighter

Clue:
It has to do with the applied force and the surface area ratio of the two pistons



Sent from my dRoiD3 with the help of 44 cyber-enhanced dwarves

[Tripped1]

Originally Posted by txwanderer

Well, you have half the story right. most don't understand "why" it should be that way. However there is a reason, actually a couple of them.
First and not most important, if you use your first two fingers you could run into interference by hitting the two on the grip. Causing an incomplete clutch throw, or worse on the brake handle and lose some of the braking ability.

.....or you just adjust your levers properly. I've ridden two+two on the levers (both of them) since my hand was big enough to wrap around the grip and the lever without clamping any "extra" fingers.

Originally Posted by txwanderer

Second and more important, is body mechanics. This is what is difficult to explain, but easy to demonstrate. The ring and pinky fingers are built for strength and stability, and it doesn't stop at the grip The pointer and middle finger are used for more complex actions such as writing, and have much smaller muscle and tendon structure for the complexity of movement. It is also much easier to demonstrate the body's stability in person, but your body is much more stable when clenching the ring and pinky into a fist. Short story, it is all about balance and strength.
I agree there may not be a "right or wrong" way but there are better and not so much better ways.

I'd say it is whatever you are comfortable with. I started riding that way because it removed the temptation (and ability) to do a full four finger clamp on the front brake. That was over 20 years ago, my throttle and brake control goes all to hell if I try to four finger the brake lever, on the clutch it putzs with my timing for a couple gears. ...and I tend to ride bikes that the brakes will toss you ass over tea-kettle before you really have a change to correct them.

[jalapenopete]

What a bloviating pack of wankers we have here.

[Gummee!]

Originally Posted by jalapenopete

What a bloviating pack of wankers we have here.

I don't see a pic in this post either...

So here's one:

boot fail

M

[greasyboy]

Dent in the pipe


Unacceptable

[hooliken]

Originally Posted by Gummee!

I don't see a pic in this post either...

So here's one:

boot fail

M

2. Visor Fail!

3. Wrong side of the road FAIL! Unless of course this is the New Dragon with British driving Rules!