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Old 01-19-2012, 05:54 AM   #6661
DC2wheels
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A fiery horse with the speed of light, a cloud of dust, and a hearty hi-ho, Silver!
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:28 AM   #6662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstrasser View Post
A fiery horse with the speed of light, a cloud of dust, and a hearty hiSIDE Repsol!
Fixt
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:43 AM   #6663
g容g
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemieuxmc View Post
There was no mention of debris in the road or any possible cause other than rider error.

Ever seen that bumper sticker that says "To err is human, to forgive is divine. Neither of them are the policy of the U.S.M.C." You can also make a pretty good case that it applies to motorcycle riding.

I've ridden that section of road many times, and on a regular basis someone crashes on it. It's almost always squid related.
It is important to realize that loss-of-control/run-off-road crashes are
not caused by the rider losing control of his machine. They are caused by
the rider making one or more mistakes while implementing a cornering
process. In these crashes, the rider is often in perfect physical control
of the machine, right up to the point that the tires of his machine leave
the road and roadside furniture or rough surfaces turn everything to
custard.
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Old 01-19-2012, 07:13 AM   #6664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g容g View Post
I........ right up to the point that the tires of his machine leave
the road and roadside furniture or rough surfaces turn everything to
custard
.
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Old 01-19-2012, 07:19 AM   #6665
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Originally Posted by Beto View Post
I'm more surprised to see someone with a D&D pipe wearing full gear than I am about his body position.
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:03 AM   #6666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g容g View Post
It is important to realize that loss-of-control/run-off-road crashes are
not caused by the rider losing control of his machine. They are caused by
the rider making one or more mistakes while implementing a cornering
process. In these crashes, the rider is often in perfect physical control
of the machine, right up to the point that the tires of his machine leave
the road and roadside furniture or rough surfaces turn everything to
custard.
Keith Code, is that you?
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:10 AM   #6667
g容g
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pretbek View Post
Keith Code, is that you?
LOL.. nope. snipped from the Mega Rider New Zealand newsletter today. I failed on the quotes though
there's a lot more (it's a long letter) but it seemed pretty spot on.

he goes on to say:

Quote:
To call the problem a loss of control confuses things. The crash cause is
not caused by the bike going out of control but simply by a failure in
judgement/s made by the rider in the process of cornering.

The correction of any of these failings at any step in the process would
see the crash avoided.

When you look at this type of crash as a simple loss of control, as most
various road safety organizations tend to do, you are creating the false
perception of a rider losing physical control of his bike, probably because
of excess speed, and thus not being able to get around the corner.

I'm not saying this can't happen. It can. If a rider pushes too hard in a
corner, the tyres can slide out from under him and the bike will go down
(see the crash at the 32 second mark on the video at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzmL6s4dK44 ).

But, interestingly enough, this is actually a very rare type of crash and
these crashes also tend to be largely restricted to sport bikes, mainly
because of the type of rider these bikes attract. Most other riders tend to
give enough leeway while cornering to avoid this unless they hit on on-road
hazard like oil or loose seal.

The truth is that just about all run-off-the-road crashes occur at speeds
at which the rider should have been able to round the corner relatively
comfortably.

These crashes happen because the crashed riders cornering process has been
dangerously flawed. He almost certainly made one or more bad calls in that
corner, ranging from riding while impaired, using a poor entry speed, poor
positioning, poor use of brakes and/or power, and poor direction
perspective.

But too often, road safety organizations focus on loss-of-control because
of speed as the cause for run-off-the-road crashes. So, to try to prevent
them, they ask riders to slow down in corners or get law enforcement
officers to target speeding riders.

And this, as the crash figures show, helps not one bit.

A more effective approach would be to teach riders the correct cornering
processes.
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:31 AM   #6668
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"But too often, road safety organizations focus on loss-of-control because
of speed as the cause for run-off-the-road crashes. So, to try to prevent
them, they ask riders to slow down in corners or get law enforcement
officers to target speeding riders.

And this, as the crash figures show, helps not one bit.

A more effective approach would be to teach riders the correct cornering
processes. "

+100
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:46 AM   #6669
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To call the problem a loss of control confuses things. The crash cause is
not caused by the bike going out of control but simply by a failure in
judgement/s made by the rider in the process of cornering.

The correction of any of these failings at any step in the process would
see the crash avoided.

When you look at this type of crash as a simple loss of control, as most
various road safety organizations tend to do, you are creating the false
perception of a rider losing physical control of his bike, probably because
of excess speed, and thus not being able to get around the corner.

I'm not saying this can't happen. It can. If a rider pushes too hard in a
corner, the tyres can slide out from under him and the bike will go down
(see the crash at the 32 second mark on the video at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzmL6s4dK44 ).

But, interestingly enough, this is actually a very rare type of crash and
these crashes also tend to be largely restricted to sport bikes, mainly
because of the type of rider these bikes attract. Most other riders tend to
give enough leeway while cornering to avoid this unless they hit on on-road
hazard like oil or loose seal.

The truth is that just about all run-off-the-road crashes occur at speeds
at which the rider should have been able to round the corner relatively
comfortably.

These crashes happen because the crashed rider’s cornering process has been
dangerously flawed. He almost certainly made one or more bad calls in that
corner, ranging from riding while impaired, using a poor entry speed, poor
positioning, poor use of brakes and/or power, and poor direction
perspective.

But too often, road safety organizations focus on loss-of-control because
of speed as the cause for run-off-the-road crashes. So, to try to prevent
them, they ask riders to slow down in corners or get law enforcement
officers to target speeding riders.

And this, as the crash figures show, helps not one bit.

A more effective approach would be to teach riders the correct cornering
processes.


I just added emphasis to illustrate the 98% rule, some guys get offended when I use the term "squid". It's kind of like Forrest Gump really, stupid is as stupid does. When you crash without outside assistance, YOU crashed and most often it is a failure of judgement or skill. The objective of correct cornering is getting around the corner smoothly, not hanging off the bike so that you can "drag a knee". The last time I checked, the only bits that are supposed to be touching the pavement are the tires!

And by the way, that video is a gigantic steaming shit load of propaganda!
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:03 AM   #6670
g容g
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemieuxmc View Post


I just added emphasis to illustrate the 98% rule, some guys get offended when I use the term "squid". It's kind of like Forrest Gump really, stupid is as stupid does. When you crash without outside assistance, YOU crashed and most often it is a failure of judgement or skill. The objective of correct cornering is getting around the corner smoothly, not hanging off the bike so that you can "drag a knee". The last time I checked, the only bits that are supposed to be touching the pavement are the tires!
I agree with your assessment
to paraphrase: the street isn't a race track.
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:28 AM   #6671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g容g View Post
I agree with your assessment
to paraphrase: the street isn't a race track.
Be careful, someone will be along shortly to explain how putting a knee down on the street is a survival strategy.
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:38 AM   #6672
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Don't need no stinkin race track.

Just drag a knee in front of your house.

What's the problem?



.
.
.
.
.
.
.





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Old 01-19-2012, 11:05 AM   #6673
IheartmyNx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outlaws justice View Post
"But too often, road safety organizations focus on loss-of-control because
of speed as the cause for run-off-the-road crashes. So, to try to prevent
them, they ask riders to slow down in corners or get law enforcement
officers to target speeding riders.

And this, as the crash figures show, helps not one bit.

A more effective approach would be to teach riders the correct cornering
processes. "

+100
So... You're FOR edjumicating, rather than fining?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IheartmyNx View Post
1) To stimulate smaller cc sales, or safer bicyclists, how bout 250cc* and under bikes get THE SAME rights as bicyclists?

Those MFers can filter, and run stop signs all day long... And all while paying NO road taxes or insurances.

2) Make it legal for MC's to speed... Two solids CAN NOT occupy the same space... So? Make it legal and alluring and it will let traffic flow.

How bout we start at 5 miles over the posted limit, and one mph PER YEAR a rider has no infractions?

No tickets for 5 years? Get a get out of jail free card next time you're stopped for going 10 over then the clock starts over at 0 (I think it's deserved myself)


3) Forget fines and court costs.... I think fines are better spent on rider educating instead of being an incentive to write tickets as a source of FUNDING!

Get a ticket? Go to a MSF or Advanced riding skills course?


4) Oh, and ban left laning and passing on the right. Institute a FEDERAL Keep Right law...

you hold up traffic and encourage unsafe passing, you get a ticket...


5) Use Amber Alerts for something actually of use. When not alerting a missing child, it flashes rules of the road like, "Slow traffic keep right!" And, "Hang up and drive!"... Not air quality alerts..

* already a law (55-8-101 (#37)), but set at 49cc under 30mph scooters. No M endorsement and no insurance required IIRC.



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IheartmyNx screwed with this post 01-19-2012 at 11:37 AM
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:03 PM   #6674
Beto
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Here's the "before" shot just to refresh our memories (posted quite a few pages back)




Here's the "after" shot:

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrog
"...if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit."

Originally Posted by Ogre_fl
"If it's anyone's fault for a crash... it's always the Ass Fault."
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:06 PM   #6675
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Lucky.
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