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Old 04-24-2011, 04:04 PM   #841
windmill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpt4321 View Post
This could be applied to a WHOLE lot of threads in this sub-forum.

Ride dangerous terrain on a dirt bike, solo, far from civilization? Sure. Stop at a light AND take your bike out of gear? THAT'S TOO DANGEROUS!

That being said, I think that the "usual crowd" in these discussions isn't the same "adventure riding" crowd we're thinking of. I think that for some of them, the biggest adventure is figuring out how to do their paved commute on a dual sport when their hi-viz is in the wash.
It seems that you fail to grasp the difference between taking personal risk, and being a public hazard.
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Old 04-24-2011, 04:12 PM   #842
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Originally Posted by Moving Pictures View Post
which when violated by egos with big bikes end up
in the ditch, over the bank, on their ass, under a car, into another bike, hood ornament on a truck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpt4321 View Post

That being said, I think that the "usual crowd" in these discussions isn't the same "adventure riding" crowd we're thinking of. I think that for some of them, the biggest adventure is figuring out how to do their paved commute on a dual sport when their hi-viz is in the wash.
Was that supposed to be a cheap shot to the ones on here who don't agree with you? You are going to have to do WAY better than that son.



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Originally Posted by DAKEZ
In this case it is my guess that it was not long or the squid should have been able to read the lead riders lines a little better and chose a different line to pull off his pass than he did.
Correct. Your guess. MY guess is the sport bike rider is a young Dumb azz invincible noob who can't even complete a simple pass without running into the ditch.
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Old 04-24-2011, 04:13 PM   #843
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
It seems that you fail to grasp the difference between taking personal risk, and being a public nuisance.
Another fix!
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Old 04-24-2011, 04:21 PM   #844
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Originally Posted by Zerk View Post
Have you rode the Dragon?
Obviously that one little road scares the piss out of you...
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Old 04-24-2011, 04:27 PM   #845
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Originally Posted by kpt4321 View Post
The reason that 95% of people are at "the dragon" is specifically because they want to participate in riding that crazy-ass, super curvy road, on their motorcycles. The whole point of going there is to ride the road, so one ought not to be surprised that other people are there to do the same thing, and that some other people have slightly different definitions of what it means to enjoy said road. I am NOT defending stupid behavior, but you're an idiot if you expect to go somewhere like that and are surprised to see other enthusiasts there, and unwilling to consider that they, like you, are trying to enjoy the road, and their method might be different than yours.
I will agree anybody who knowingly places themselves in a bad situation and then complains about it is using poor judgment, but what about the folks that live in the area and need to use these roads? What about the riders who have the same attitude where ever and when ever they ride?

It all goes back to the question of why does the desire of the few who want to go fast trump all other motorists desires? And why are they alone exempt from modifying their behavior?
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Old 04-24-2011, 04:28 PM   #846
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If we are talking about law-breaking, as opposed to rational, reasonable riding, then let us hope that the accusers have never had a traffic law infraction. This would mean not going 66mph on the highway, ALWAYS using blinkers, full stops at stop signs, not passing on the right, never lane splitting, never filtering, and any other archaic legislation that we can dig up.

Rather than discuss "reasonable motorcycling" in terms of legality, let's try to discuss it in terms of what is and isn't reasonable to rational human beings, regardless of what the law says. It's the same reasonable thought that lets us all speed in a fun set of twisties or roll through a stop sign in a desolate area.

I am not defending people who make stupid choices (squid passing in a blind corner). I am just suggesting some people here stop acting like a bunch of "thou must never break any laws ever" sissies, and rationally consider different circumstances.

The rules of the road might be the same at Deal's Gap as they are on I95 in your home city. However, a RATIONAL motorcyclst would understand that normal, considerate behavior might be different in that particular environment.
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Old 04-24-2011, 04:32 PM   #847
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Originally Posted by bwalsh View Post
Another fix!
I went with hazard because their bad choices can and do result in the injury and death of innocent victims.
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Old 04-24-2011, 05:04 PM   #848
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Originally Posted by kpt4321 View Post

Rather than discuss "reasonable motorcycling" in terms of legality, let's try to discuss it in terms of what is and isn't reasonable to rational human beings, regardless of what the law says.
I was discussing basic common sense and here we are seven pages later...


Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill
I went with hazard because their bad choices can and do result in the injury and death of innocent victims.
True. I retract that "fix".
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Old 04-24-2011, 05:07 PM   #849
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Originally Posted by kpt4321 View Post
If we are talking about law-breaking, as opposed to rational, reasonable riding, then let us hope that the accusers have never had a traffic law infraction. This would mean not going 66mph on the highway, ALWAYS using blinkers, full stops at stop signs, not passing on the right, never lane splitting, never filtering, and any other archaic legislation that we can dig up.

Rather than discuss "reasonable motorcycling" in terms of legality, let's try to discuss it in terms of what is and isn't reasonable to rational human beings, regardless of what the law says. It's the same reasonable thought that lets us all speed in a fun set of twisties or roll through a stop sign in a desolate area.

I am not defending people who make stupid choices (squid passing in a blind corner). I am just suggesting some people here stop acting like a bunch of "thou must never break any laws ever" sissies, and rationally consider different circumstances.

The rules of the road might be the same at Deal's Gap as they are on I95 in your home city. However, a RATIONAL motorcyclst would understand that normal, considerate behavior might be different in that particular environment.
Laws are not intended to be perfect or cover every conceivable circumstance, they are intended to provide the safe, uniform, flow of traffic by all users, at all times, in all places. I have never seen a traffic sign or traffic code that says "if you feel like it".

Nobody is perfect and I don't think anybody is suggesting uncompromising observance of all laws at all times. It is the few who demand the right to do what they want, when they want, and won't accept the possibility of occasional inconvenience or legal consequence.

Again, the 2 questions many are asking, that no one is answering,

Why does the desire to go fast trump all others desires?

Why should those who choose to go fast be exempt from changing their behavior also?
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Old 04-24-2011, 05:51 PM   #850
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Despite all the posturing I suspect most here will allow someone faster to pass and can also pass a slower rider safely with a modicum of control. I really don't find this a common problem when I ride. Then again I go out of my way to avoid crowded roads. Other than being able to say "I rode the dragon," why would anyone want to ride such an overcrowded piece of asphalt? There are plenty of fantastic rides that aren't overpopulated.
I still stand by my position though that if you can't control your bike well enough to stay in your lane, then you are an
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Old 04-24-2011, 06:34 PM   #851
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Have you rode the Dragon?
Dozens of times. Sometimes I pass people. Sometimes people pass me. With very little fanfare.
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Old 04-24-2011, 06:54 PM   #852
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Playing devils advocate here, You expect others to obey the law so you can break them? To not impede traffic does not carry any obligation to commit an illegal act..
Who said I was breaking any laws?? If you are the type that frequently finds traffic catching you, chances are you cannot ride most twisty technical roads AT the speed limit, and specifically at the GAP, I bet there are some of the 200 or so corners (yes 200, count yourself, 311 is a BIG stretch) at MUCH below the limit. Meaning at 35 MPH, I am not breaking ANY laws, but still traveling faster than you.

Maybe I learned to be courteous at a young age, and expect everyone else to do the same...............guess I have too much faith in the human race......sigh........
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Old 04-24-2011, 07:10 PM   #853
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Who said I was breaking any laws?? If you are the type that frequently finds traffic catching you, chances are you cannot ride most twisty technical roads AT the speed limit, and specifically at the GAP, I bet there are some of the 200 or so corners (yes 200, count yourself, 311 is a BIG stretch) at MUCH below the limit. Meaning at 35 MPH, I am not breaking ANY laws, but still traveling faster than you.

Maybe I learned to be courteous at a young age, and expect everyone else to do the same...............guess I have too much faith in the human race......sigh........
Passing in no passing zones is legal?

I rarely have trouble with faster or slower folks, I try to maintain a harmonious relationship with the road and other motorists rather than force an extreme ether way. Whats the point of riding if it's an exercise in frustration? Wouldn't that be a hint as to where the real problem is?

Courtesy is something to be accepted graciously, never demanded.

and again,
Why does the desire to go fast trump all others desires?

Why should those who choose to go fast be exempt from changing their behavior also?
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Old 04-24-2011, 07:24 PM   #854
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So, by that logic, I shouldn't complain if I get mugged in New York, or shot by a gangbanger in L.A. It's my tough shit for not adapting to the local lawlessness.

Tell, me - what other areas do laws and common social decency evaporate?
If you go to a crack house and get mugged or shot at, I'm of the opinion it's partly your fault. You knew what you were getting into.

I'm not saying it's "right", but you made an informed decision to go there and knew the possible consequences.

If you want to ride a road where there isn't going to be an extraordinary ratio of asshats per mile, there are hundreds of miles of roads in NC, WV, TN, GA and VA that are just as good or nearly as good, and you'll almost always have them to yourself.
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Old 04-24-2011, 07:43 PM   #855
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I think we're all ignoring the most important aspect of this...cheap parted out crash bikes and possible street fighters on Ebay
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