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Old 05-26-2012, 11:31 AM   #11431
shaddix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougZ73 View Post
What instructors say, for people new to the track, is to get your braking, all your braking done, but the time you hit " turn in", roll to the "apex" and then get on the gas as you lift the bike, from apex to "exit".

BUT...that is only for beginners, before they are more advanced and can learn "trail braking" That is getting a percentage of your braking done by turn in, but still be be braking a bit, from turn in to apex....."trailing off the brake" as you get to the apex, and then same as before, on gas, and lifting bike up from apex to exit and out of turn.

Trail braking is faster way around track and a more advanced technique/skill.

You might be assuming the guy in pic is a beginner and not a more advanced rider. People at every skill level crash...just sayin'.
Can you help me reconcile this with twist of the wrist II?

The concept is that the rear tire can handle more weight in the cornering load than the front due to the wider contact patch. So then I would surmise that if you're able to have more weight on the front than the rear by braking into the corner, that you aren't really going as fast as you could be.

Thanks for your(or anyone else's) edification on this.
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Old 05-26-2012, 12:00 PM   #11432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfc View Post
You never watched Miguel Duhamel race did you?
I am so old, I watched his father race too.
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Old 05-26-2012, 12:19 PM   #11433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by high dangler View Post
Im not all that fast but have ridden with very fast on a racetrack .I didnt see any of those fast guys trying to slide or "back it in".
I cant think of any good reason to ever get a tire sliding on pavement .There are faster ways to get around a curve.
Before some one points to a guy like Gary McCoy the" slide king" just let me say that guy was not human .Maybe put there to sell tickets and create attention.
I think you need to pull up some Moto GP or WSB videos on youtube, lots of sliding going on with "fast" guys.
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Old 05-26-2012, 02:57 PM   #11434
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Originally Posted by FFLTR View Post
I think you need to pull up some Moto GP or WSB videos on youtube, lots of sliding going on with "fast" guys.
purposely sliding ?

I know the motard guys like to slide on a short track .
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Old 05-26-2012, 02:59 PM   #11435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by high dangler View Post
purposely sliding ?

I know the motard guys like to slide on a short track .

Yes



FFLTR screwed with this post 05-26-2012 at 03:05 PM
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Old 05-26-2012, 03:05 PM   #11436
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Old 05-26-2012, 03:05 PM   #11437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by high dangler View Post
purposely sliding ?

I know the motard guys like to slide on a short track .
more than that,puposely sliding the back wheel esp the moto 2 guys,although the top few guys in motogp do it to,When they "back it in" they are braking on the limit and the back slides out a bit adding to the actual turn in with the bars( i am not going to say which way they turn the bars)
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Old 05-26-2012, 03:12 PM   #11438
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Originally Posted by advNZer? View Post
( i am not going to say which way they turn the bars)
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Old 05-26-2012, 03:39 PM   #11439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by high dangler View Post
purposely sliding ?

I know the motard guys like to slide on a short track .
You haven't seen some of the slow motion clips of MotoGP, especially a certain Mr. Stoner, sliding the rear and at times sliding the front? Lap after lap. If it wasn't the fastest way around the circuit I doubt that the fast guys would be doing it
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Old 05-26-2012, 04:12 PM   #11440
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Quote:
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You never watched Miguel Duhamel race did you?
I miss those 2 stroke 500cc days. Traction control takes some of the thrill out of watching Moto GP.
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Old 05-26-2012, 04:33 PM   #11441
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Quite a few years ago RRW did temperature tests on rear tires
and found sliding the tire generated less heat than not sliding the tire.
Lap times were pretty close iirc.

Last jack.
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:50 PM   #11442
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Amma throw in my best guess on the SM crasher. Them short, red, 2-finger levers are hard to judge how much squeeze is being applied. But that big black tire stripe ended suddenly. My best guess is that he merely snapped the throttle closed enough to let the tire hook up. As posted by another observer, the rear end snapped back into alignment so fast that it spit the rider out of the saddle. Those lever fingers don't look especially aligned with the lever trapped up against the bar.
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:50 PM   #11443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaddix View Post
Can you help me reconcile this with twist of the wrist II?

The concept is that the rear tire can handle more weight in the cornering load than the front due to the wider contact patch. So then I would surmise that if you're able to have more weight on the front than the rear by braking into the corner, that you aren't really going as fast as you could be.

Thanks for your(or anyone else's) edification on this.
Typically, any bike you would take on the track, like a sport bike, 90% of the braking you do is with the front wheel. Think about any bike you ride, typically, when braking, the front compresses and the rear gets light. Look at modern sport bikes and race bikes as well. two big discs in the front and one smaller disc in the rear. That also illustrates how much the importance of the front wheel/tire is in braking.

Now, you are right...the rear usually does have a larger tire and contact patch. BUT, remember, the front just goes along for the ride and has to have traction for handling(braking aside). The rear, has to have traction for handling too, but also for acceleration. More is demanded of the rear tire, as far as traction is concerned. More is demanded from the front for braking and handling.

For either tire..a rider has to balance the 100% of traction the tire has. For the front, its a certain percentage for braking and a certain percentage maintaining side traction. Mess that up and the front washes out.

The rear, do not balance the acceleration traction and side traction, and the rider either low sides or highsides.

Hope that helps and clears some stuff up.
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Old 05-26-2012, 07:29 PM   #11444
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probably, it is a yamaha after all



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Impeding flow of traffic???

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Old 05-27-2012, 03:42 AM   #11445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironslede68 View Post
probably, it is a yamaha after all
True.

If it was a Hog it would be a wrecker instead of a trooper.

Either way both are rolling roadblocks.

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