The KaTaMaki 650 ADV project (KTM LC4 gets a twin engine swap)

[LukasM]

Originally Posted by atgreg

apparently its about 20kg or so lighter than a standard versys, a friend of mine who's a very good rider said it's amazing, it was built by a professional suspension tuner

That would probably make it lighter than my beast is going to be. Impressive! If you find any more info on it please share it with us.





I just spent a few days back in Vienna. I was busy with work again but did manage to stop by the garage for an hour.

First I fixed a leaking plug on the 640 Adventure my cousin and I picked up a month ago. I'll be riding it while we are working on this project and if it actually works out we'll turn it into a 650 twin as well.




As I mentioned before I had trouble with the shipper of the Versys engine and have still not received it. But in preparation for fitting it I wanted to sort out the rear brake conversion. This will allow me to determine proper side to side placement so the sprocket align.

Here are the calipers I bought from various right side brake KTMs. On the left is the one from a 04 and newer EXC/SX (26mm piston), middle is 03 and earlier EXC/SX (28mm) and on the right 990 Superduke (32mm).



I found out that the newer EXC has different spacing between the two sliding pins, but was able to swap the Superduke caliper onto the early EXC bracket as I had hoped. This should be adequate for the weight of the bike and fit well with the stock 13mm LC4 master cylinder, essentially copying the 690 Rally setup. And like Jake from Scotts said, the EXC bracket is a mirror image of the LC4 one:




So I went to test fit by simply swapping the wheel around and keeping all the spacers in place. Looking good!




Still have to cut off the caliper bracket pin and reweld it to the other side.




I couldn't use a sprocket because it would hit the pin, but from holding my Laser chain alignment tool against the sprocket mounting surface it looks like the chain will clear the frame tube by a bit. You can just make out the red laser point ahead of the front brake line clip:




This is the bracket for the lower chain guide that will also have to be swapped to the other side.




Finally, I tried out a chain slider from a DR650:



Doesn't fit too well since the mounting bolts are placed on the outside of the swingarm. Luckily the buddy I share my garage with also owns a 990 Adventure, 690 Rally and 520 EXC, which are all left side output, so I should be able to find one that works next time.

[tonymorr]

Hi Lukas;

I came upon this thread while researching alternatives for my Mutant Ninja. I looked over my buddies 640E and one thing that struck me was that the Ninja/Versys motor would have to be shifted quite a bit to the right in the frame to make the drive sprocket line up with the rear sprocket. Have you looked into this yet aspect yet? (sorry if you have, I haven't read the whole thread yet.

Tony

[LukasM]

Hi Tony,

I have seen your thread before as well, very cool build. You took the Mutant up to Alaska without any problems already, right?

As far as fitment, I have done some rough numbers with the measurements I could get with the engine installed in the frame in both the LC4 and the Versys. Hope this isn't going to bite me in the ass later! From what I remember the area between the two frame down tubes of the LC4 was about 21cm. The counter sprocket on the 650 is located about 1/2 the distance of the total width away from the center line of the engine, hope that makes sense. Could you take a look at how wide the it is?

[tonymorr]

I'm sorry I haven't gotten any measurments for you yet. Been pretty busy. I will probably be able to get something for you tomorrow. One thing that I would be very interested in knowing is how the weight of the 650 twin and 640 single engine compare. If you could get those numbers at some point during your project it would be cool

[LukasM]

No problem Tony, I am stuck in Spain for the next few weeks anyway.

I already weighed the LC4 if you didn't see it, came out to 40.1kgs IIRC. This was with E-starter, but without carb and oil. From what I was able to find out from Ebay sellers the twin should come to about 60kgs, so quite a bit heavier. Being a real weight fetishist I'm definitely going to get an accurate measurement myself and will post it here.

[SamM]

LukasM,
Your build looks great. Keep up the great work. I saw the picture of the diesel KLR posted here earlier. That's the bike that inspired me to build mine. My new engine should be here at the end of the month. The frame has been cut up and we are moving forward with it.

More later. Off to South America (Ecuador/Galapogos Islands) for a week.

SamM

[Fuzznuts]

Originally Posted by BtoV

I'm scheming on putting a 650 Versys engine in a dirt bike frame. Pretty compact motor, 6 speed FI etc. A fried of mine is scheming on using a 360 twin Honda motor with upgraded suspension,

Anything you come up with...especially the 650 Versys has my attention. I'm a tour guide in Costa Rica and doing Central America Tours. The vibration and nit pick stuff is driving me crazy...

[LukasM]

Originally Posted by SamM

LukasM,
Your build looks great. Keep up the great work. I saw the picture of the diesel KLR posted here earlier. That's the bike that inspired me to build mine. My new engine should be here at the end of the month. The frame has been cut up and we are moving forward with it.

More later. Off to South America (Ecuador/Galapogos Islands) for a week.

SamM

Hey Sam,

I am going to put more effort and money into this than I first planned on, but I think it will turn out to be a very cool bike. Just progress will be slow as long as I work abroad.

Did you start a new thread about the Diesel KLR? I'd like to read more about it.

And enjoy Ecuador, I have been there a couple of times and it's an awesome place. I hope you scuba dive, Galapagos was an unforgettable experience for me.

Originally Posted by Fuzznuts

Anything you come up with...especially the 650 Versys has my attention. I'm a tour guide in Costa Rica and doing Central America Tours. The vibration and nit pick stuff is driving me crazy...

Are you the guy from the Versys forum? Welcome to Advrider! Even if you stick with your normal engine, you have come to the right place for anything LC4.



And lastly, I dug up this info in an old thread in beasts:

Originally Posted by Wayne Weber

I had the EX500 parallel twin motor out, and it weighs 122lb without carbs or oil. Not too bad for 1986 design. I weighed the RallyTwin without gas (with oil, antifreeze, etc) and it's 324lbs. Less than I thought!

I'd say that's good news since according to Kawasaki the 650 is lighter than the old EX500 engine!

[tonymorr]

Originally Posted by LukasM

I'd say that's good news since according to Kawasaki the 650 is lighter than the old EX500 engine!

The 650 motor definitely lighter and smaller. I had an EX500 (Mutant Ninja I). I think if you gutted the 500 motor the 650 would fit inside it!

[Fuzznuts]

I'm way late in this game but have an LC4 to stuff and need the stuffin'. Are you talking about a Versys? Do you still have it? Please feel free to email me... Fuzzlong@gmail.com Thanks, Fuzznuts

Originally Posted by alpiv

Reply to: sale-yhbcr-1137030607@craigslist.org ^{[Errors when replying to ads?]}
Date: 2009-04-23, 5:57PM CDT


great project bike!! a car pulled out in front of me and i had no choice but to lay my bike down. the major thing wrong is the front forks are broken. the frame and motor are in great condition. i have a clean title and bike has aproximately 15,000 miles on it. i am asking only 2,000 or best offer, first one with best offer and cash in hand, call it yours! text me or leave a voicemail at 615-517-8450.

[LukasM]

Originally Posted by Fuzznuts

I'm way late in this game but have an LC4 to stuff and need the stuffin'. Are you talking about a Versys? Do you still have it? Please feel free to email me... Fuzzlong@gmail.com Thanks, Fuzznuts

Hi Paul,

That ad was actually for a wrecked Ninja, and it wasn't Alpiv's, he just found it on Craigslist. I still think Ebay will be your best bet, or maybe one of the Kawasaki forums.

[Fuzznuts]

Lukas, I think what I just did subscribed me to your thread. Spent the day looking for an engine.... lots of little spys out there running around looking for me now... fuzznuts

Originally Posted by LukasM

Ok, aside from dreaming about the Super Enduro I managed to spend a few hours in the garage.

First I did some damage assessment on the ER-6N, not too bad really. Headlight, forks, tank, a dent in the wheel and some plastic. My buddy is going to get the frame measured to check if it's straight. Already have a line on another engine should he want to rebuild it.



Just realized that it has ABS. Even though I don't like it on dirt bikes having the option on a tourer would be kinda cool. Mixed with a few parts off the KTM 990 shouldn't even be that hard to adapt. Hhhmmmm.....







Then I got the Adventure stripped down almost completely. Pretty much all the parts I took off will be replaced by custom stuff so if any of you vultures need something PM me.





Didn't have a tape measure handy but the fit doesn't even look so bad. I'll probably build a dummy engine out of foam to try it first. Almost like it belongs in there, eh?




The next step is to find a cheap KTM EXC rear brake caliper so I can flip the wheel and have the sprocket on the left side. This will show us the plane in which the countersprocket need to be aligned. Anybody got one lying around?

Cheers,
Lukas

[LukasM]

Originally Posted by Fuzznuts

Lukas, I think what I just did subscribed me to your thread. Spent the day looking for an engine.... lots of little spys out there running around looking for me now... fuzznuts

Cool, then we can keep each other updated.


I also wanted to do something productive today so I brought my tape measure to work. Then instead of eating during lunch break I went for a ride around Madrid. Actually managed to find an ER-6N and measured the width of the engine: About 38 or 39 cms (didn't want to spend too much time fumbling around on somebody elses bike ).

So I think we will be able to place the engine in the middle of the frame instead of having to offset it!

[Fuzznuts]

Originally Posted by LukasM

Cool, then we can keep each other updated.


I also wanted to do something productive today so I brought my tape measure to work. Then instead of eating during lunch break I went for a ride around Madrid. Actually managed to find an ER-6N and measured the width of the engine: About 38 or 39 cms (didn't want to spend too much time fumbling around on somebody elses bike ).

So I think we will be able to place the engine in the middle of the frame instead of having to offset it!

Yeah, nothing worse the riding with a starboard list. Thanks for the insight and measurement...it keeps getting better.

Any difference between the 06 and 09 engines? I found a repairable bike for a 1000 quid at Cheshire Motorcycle Salvage. It's an ER6F. Not good? Then there's the shipping....

[Fuzznuts]

Originally Posted by Fuzznuts

Yeah, nothing worse the riding with a starboard list. Thanks for the insight and measurement...it keeps getting better.

Any difference between the 06 and 09 engines? I found a repairable bike for a 1000 quid at Cheshire Motorcycle Salvage. It's an ER6F. Not good? Then there's the shipping....

Dealers are also calling this bike a KLE and it has Versys on the tank. Is it any different?