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Old 02-05-2010, 01:05 PM   #271
Dust Buster
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WHY, is the japs/kawiguys not making a decent offroad/adventure bike out of the verzys or er6 chassie , they are so freaking close to make a homerun.

Swedish online magazine www.fastbikes.se has just been testing the new Verzys on Sardinia in a somewhat unsusual testrun, checkout this video, where the reporter mostly drive the verzys on what i think most of us would call offroad.

Just imagine what this thing could do with decent tires an suspension....

Sorry Lucas if this gets a little bit OT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b9iK...layer_embedded from 3.48.
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Old 02-05-2010, 06:34 PM   #272
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Y'all tawk funny!

Beautiful scenery, looked pretty capable...better than I would have thought.
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Old 02-06-2010, 04:30 AM   #273
dentvet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickf
Y'all tawk funny!

Beautiful scenery, looked pretty capable...better than I would have thought.
yeah it sounded like it had pretty good torque down low. lucas might be on to something here.
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Old 02-06-2010, 05:20 AM   #274
DRjoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dentvet
yeah it sounded like it had pretty good torque down low. lucas might be on to something here.
That's when he gets off his lazy fat arse and finish's the build. I never seen some one take so long to build a bike.
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Old 02-06-2010, 06:57 AM   #275
LukasM OP
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It's not fat, that's all muscle!

Still getting set up, next step is the heavy machinery.

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Old 02-06-2010, 01:37 PM   #276
DRjoe
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bloody hell Lukas whats with all the ktm banners. with them up you would hardly know it was a suzuki garrage.

I decided to find out what all the fuss was about and bought a 2001 520exc to replace my wr250f. I've been advised to take out life insurance.
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Old 02-08-2010, 06:02 AM   #277
sanjoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM
Wow, awesome bike! That one sure deserves to be in "Beasts".

Do you have a build thread somewhere? Would love to know what kind of weight you end up with. Be careful with adjusting the front fork travel, bet the 21" wheel gets mighty close to hitting with the full 12".
No build thread yet, still working on it.

The KTM and ninja use the same size axles front and rear. A sumo setup can't be far off!
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Old 02-13-2010, 03:01 AM   #278
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bump
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Old 02-15-2010, 06:39 AM   #279
DRjoe
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come on then lets see the grinder porn.
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Old 02-15-2010, 06:50 AM   #280
MODNROD
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COOL!!!!
Did someone say grinder?
Come on Lukas, please man?
My 640 is causing a dislocation of my crotch (yes, it is painful), and I'm not getn any younger here!
In a few weeks I'm gonna sell the "cement mixer" galloping giraffe, unless your 650 retrofit makes it all wonderful again, then I'll do that instead of getting a bloody huge great UJM.
I got 12's outta the 640......wonder what a 650 Kwaka will do?
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Old 02-15-2010, 06:54 AM   #281
Wolfdog
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DRJoe just put me on to this thread of yours, looks like another great project to follow.

Looking forward to more of this,
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Old 02-15-2010, 08:38 AM   #282
LukasM OP
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Yesterday was supposed to be family time but inspired by DRJoe’s recent post I decided to spend it in the garage instead.

If you haven’t seen it yet, Joe is putting a Suzuki GS500 twin into his DR after the „reliable“ original engine blew up. That will be a cool bike as well!

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...2#post12164972



I first spent some time cleaning up the mill we just got. Will take a while to get it looking nice again but it was cheap! Built in 1955 but apparently they still sell them today.




Next was tackling the oil pan situation, as I had mentioned earlier it has an odd shape and would hang down way too low:




Since it will take me a few years to figure out how to operate the mill to make a shallower billet replacement, I went old school with the grinder:




The casting is now rather thin in that area, certainly not enough material to cut threads into it. I was thinking about building up the inside with some liquid metal, any thoughts?

Another issue that popped up is that the normal drain plug is joined by a small channel from the right (circled red in the picture). Due to the angle I don’t think I will be able to seal it with a bolt from below.




Looking at the inside of the oil pan the origin of the channel is in red. It is right under a metal screen so I guess it would be good to keep it drainable. There is another area that looks like it could be used instead, circled in green:



This is the spot from the underside, there is a raised boss and the casting appears thick enough. I’ll have to drill and thread it when we get the mill working.




But even with the oil pan shaved off, the engine is still too big for the frame. So I did the only logical thing – chopping off the bottom frame rails. I was concerned a bit about chassis distortion, especially from welding on new tubing. Luckily I have another LC4 frame that I can use to build a jig when it comes to that.




Now there was only one small thing left that prevented a good fit: This small vent on top of the valve cover:



I am not sure what it’s for, maybe something emissions related? Then I could make a simple block off plate, but for now I just left it off.

So here is the fit with everything out of the way:






I was very excited at first but then I found a number of issues, some of them rather serious:

Not enough clearance between the 2 exhaust ports. This one would be easy to solve with simply connecting the bottom frame rails higher up on the tube and cutting the rest off.




Valve cover clearance: Definitely not possible to remove it in the frame. Not too big of an issue since the 650 only requires valve adjustments every 26.000 miles.



Serious problem #1: The frame is in the way of inlets on the head. No way to fit the throttle bodies in there.









Serious problem #2: Just from eyeballing that the engine is centered it appears that the countersprocket is in front of the frame tube.



How can I line the engine up correctly? My thoughts were to check the width of the Versys rear hub, and then seeing how far from the center the sprocket is. Then place the LC4 sprocket in the same spot, if necessary by spacing it out on the carrier. Now the chain will determine the correct left/right position of the engine when the countersprocket is in alginment. Does that make sense?

The bottom frame rails should also be made wider than the attachment point allows, in order to run around the oil pan rather under it. Otherwise I would loose 2“ or so of ground clearance.

Annoying problem: The water hose outlet sticking out and general width of the engine prevent a close tank fit.



The original Adventure/Rally tank doesn’t fit:





Neither does the one from the 690 Supermoto/Duke III, even though that bike has a pretty wide trellis frame:



[click to show pic]



The split front Rally tanks will of course fit but sit very wide since they hug the engine completely. And the peg mounts would also be very wide, it will feel more like riding a horse than a slender LC4!


I am not ready to give up the project just yet, but to be honest building up a 950 Superenduro is starting to look better and better.

Basically I see my options as the following: Replace all the offending tubes, including the top/rear and bottom split rails. At this point you are getting close to building an entire custom frame. I don’t think I have the skills or equipment to do it, and outsourcing would probably get very expensive....

If the chain clears or I offset the engine a bit to the right, I am still stuck with the intake interference. Could I just replace that section of tubing with something in the right bend or would that severely affect rigidity?



Another possibility might be to build a 2-into1 plenum and using a single throttle body. This means I would have to ditch the stock ECU and use a standalone like Microsquirt instead. Most of the hardware is already on the engine and it would be completely tuneable, but I loose OEM reliability and it adds another dimension of complexity to the build.

An acquaintence who is experienced in these types of custom builds suggested to look for a smaller engine (F650 or XT660) or a bigger frame (Cagiva Elefant, F800GS, KTM LC8) instead. Neither of these options sound too convincing to me...

What do you guys think?












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Old 02-15-2010, 09:46 AM   #283
dentvet
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hey lucas, keep slogging! i don't have much good advice but there's a bit of info here http://www.dirttricks.com/rfs_in_new_frame.htm pertaining to the exhaust port problem.

what was it about that aprilia conversion that made the difference? is it that the fuel injection was able to occupy the space formerly held by the rearward cylinder? the solutions might be found in the details of the rxv conversion...

oil pan thoughts. block off the original drain hole and use a suction system to drain the main sump, like marine folks do. use the boss circled in green to make a drain access for that small secondary sump, or make a different perforation into the main sump
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Old 02-15-2010, 01:01 PM   #284
LukasM OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dentvet
hey lucas, keep slogging! i don't have much good advice but there's a bit of info here http://www.dirttricks.com/rfs_in_new_frame.htm pertaining to the exhaust port problem.

what was it about that aprilia conversion that made the difference? is it that the fuel injection was able to occupy the space formerly held by the rearward cylinder? the solutions might be found in the details of the rxv conversion...

oil pan thoughts. block off the original drain hole and use a suction system to drain the main sump, like marine folks do. use the boss circled in green to make a drain access for that small secondary sump, or make a different perforation into the main sump
Thanks for the reminder! I have actually been in touch with Greg from Dirttricks since he started his conversion. I also own an RFS EXC and thought about doing the chassis upgrade - until I realized that I have other things to finish first!

The header interference should be easy to fix as I described before, but something like the milled C could be used on the intake part of the frame. Or a section of bent tube.

Still have to figure out a solution for the chain/frame interference which is not that easy...
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Old 02-15-2010, 01:29 PM   #285
jdrocks
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you're essentially going to build a whole new frame by the time you're done. get out the tube bender and tig welder. then there's all the common attachment points that will have to be transferred.

ninja or versys frame, tinker with the rake, trail, and wheelbase, beef up the subframe, trick full KTM suspension, spokes, high exhaust, custom pegs and peg mounts, big tank, custom lights/rally fairing...

weigh every piece and bring it in at 375#.

tune it for 80hp and run away from about anything similar.
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