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Old 04-23-2009, 04:05 AM   #31
Max Kool
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM
Good picture Max! I was not aware how tall it really is with the throttle body attached. Is the 04-07 F650 engine the same?

PAMI would definitely be fun as well, but I don't even want to think about all the €€€€s a 700cc mill from them would cost. And fuel efficiency?
Yup, from 2000 and onwards. Up to 2003 single spark, 2004 and onward dual spark, but basically the same layout. All FI Rotax/BMW's 650 are built like this. Might explain why none of them have a central spine frame. However, there is still the Aprilia version, which I believe has 5 valves instead of four. But I can't really find if there ever was an Aprilia FI version of that bike, or that they only switched to FI with the new Minarelli mill.

Maybe you can find a PAMI engine on ebay or mobile.de, or a racing team that quit using Beemer engines? Dunno

Good luck, and don't let us pull your genious and enthousiasm down, I love what you are doing, and how you think "out of the box".


Max


PS, how about an older aircooled Rotax 650cc engine, like ATK's used to have?
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Old 04-23-2009, 06:03 AM   #32
Kawidad
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I too thought about this conversion. I thought the ideal motor would be either a DR650, if you want to go light weight single. Lots of support, can bored out and lots of options.

My preference was: an XS650. Old school twin. The XS is very reliable and simple to maintain. Can be bored out to 750 cc and make a surprising amount of HP for not a lot of money. Substitute the radiator for an oil cooler. Flip the rear tire around and make a new brake bracket, since they are a reversed drive vs the Rotax mill. Ton of info and support on the internet for the XS because its such a cult bike. I'd go with a newer one with electronic ignition, say about 1981.
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Old 04-23-2009, 07:09 AM   #33
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  • 86 Nm
  • 798 ccm
  • 6-speed gearbox
  • Mass balancing via balancing rod
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Old 04-23-2009, 04:32 PM   #34
TebKLR
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Kawasaki 750 2 stroke triple with Denco expansion chambers, of course (sounds as realistic as many of the other posts).
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Old 04-23-2009, 08:54 PM   #35
dhally
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I'm thinking a 500cc 2-stroke single. Very compact. Lots of power. Cheap and easy to find.

You've already got a huge fuel tank, so range would be OK.
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:15 PM   #36
bk brkr baker
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Triumph

650 Triumph from the sixties. No right side drive though. Able to build up to 75 hp. ,fairly compact. no radiator but you'll need an oil tank. Desert Sled , baby!!!!!!!!!
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:19 PM   #37
dwayne
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The LC4 frame will adapt to either side output. Though they swiched the drive side, they didn't change the frame much. You would have to change the swingarm (for the rear brake mount) though.

An Aprillia V would most likely fit, don't know about reliablility.

Going to a twin you might find you have C/S sprocket off set issues.

Don't forget the sport quad motors. The Yamaha Raptor is a 700cc single FI (based on the 660).
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Old 04-24-2009, 02:51 PM   #38
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More cool ideas... But I would like to keep some sort of budget so I will go with a readily available engine. If I can get one with modern (but still reliable) technology, even better. In that spirit I did some more googling on the Versys/Ninja twin. I actually think this might work....







Have a test ride scheduled for tomorrow so I will see if I actually like it. When I have the bike I will try to get some engine dimensions as well. I figure I can get the whole shebang for about $1k including engine, gauges, wiring harness with the sensors, FI and ECU. Anything else I am forgetting?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dwayne
The LC4 frame will adapt to either side output. Though they swiched the drive side, they didn't change the frame much. You would have to change the swingarm (for the rear brake mount) though.

Going to a twin you might find you have C/S sprocket off set issues.

Don't forget the sport quad motors. The Yamaha Raptor is a 700cc single FI (based on the 660).
The Yamaha single is still in my top 5 choices. In the 700 version I might actually have some power as well, the normal 660 is quite boring.

That's good news on the KTM frame as I don't have one yet to look at. The sprocket is sort of inset on the 650, so hopefully it will not be too wide for it:




Damn.... this could really be a cool project!
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Old 04-24-2009, 02:58 PM   #39
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you might try one of these

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Old 04-24-2009, 03:03 PM   #40
LukasM OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laromonster
you might try one of these
Now there is an original choice!

Unfortunately it fails requirement #2. And you have to choose between 4 or 5...
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Old 04-24-2009, 04:42 PM   #41
dwayne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwayne
The LC4 frame will adapt to either side output. Though they swiched the drive side, they didn't change the frame much. You would have to change the swingarm (for the rear brake mount) though.

An Aprillia V would most likely fit, don't know about reliablility.

Going to a twin you might find you have C/S sprocket off set issues.

Don't forget the sport quad motors. The Yamaha Raptor is a 700cc single FI (based on the 660).
My bad the 700 is NOT based on the 660, but Yamaha thumps have a great rep. for reliability. However there was a 660 raptor. The sport quad market is full of aftermarket performance.
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Old 04-25-2009, 02:44 PM   #42
LukasM OP
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Absolutely beautiful weather today. The Kawi dealer was nice enough to lend me the Versys all day, so I put a fair bit of miles on it. My cousin and a buddy joined me on a 80 G/S PD and KTM 990. We did everything from city traffic, dirt roads, to highway. No off road, the bike was too heavy and shiny...

Here are my thoughts on it:
- Very smooth running engine, even at idle. I had read some reports that it is buzzier than a V, but I could not feel it while riding.
- The throttle response felt a bit sluggish, even compared to the 990 with it's much bigger pistons. It might be the springs on the throttle bodies which are very heavy.
- Pulls cleanly and strongly through the whole rev range. And rev it does! When you would shift a thumper at 7k or so, you still have another 4k to go on the twin.
- Plenty of power for a light bike, would feel awesome in a 150kg chassis.
- Fairly heavy clutch pull, quite a bit harder than my DR with upgraded clutch springs. It only uses a very small amount of travel though, so I would just switch to an ASV perch with more leverage.
- You could easily drop a tooth or two on the front sprocket for improved slow riding and have plenty of top speed left. I didn't max it out but reached an indicated 110mph easily.
- Even though it's 6 speed it didn't feel wide ratio. But it's much more comfortable at upper RPMs than a single so this would not really be an issue.

I also spoke to the mechanic at the dealer. They have not had any issues in the 3 years that the engine has been out. IIRC oil change is every 7500 miles and valve adjustment every 15000.

So all in all I think this would be an awesome choice. Just the niche I am looking to fill, where the 950/990 feels too big overall, the 640 is a pain on the highway an all the other twins are too heavy and have shitty suspension. I don't think I would want to ride it a lot on technical trails (missing the low rev punch of a single), but for most places where you would take an adventure bike with full luggage it should be great.

Now on to the critical part - frame fitment! Luckily another inmate generously offered to measure up his spare LC4 frame, hopefully we will figure it out with the rough numbers I got.



Will update when I know more.

Lukas
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Old 04-25-2009, 07:11 PM   #43
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Watching closely, I'd love to see a 640 / Ninja 650 combo.
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Old 04-26-2009, 03:28 PM   #44
Aussie Steve
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You probably already know, but I was told the 640 motard has a wider swingarm, would make spacing the sprocket further out a bit easier. It also runs the pro link unlike the rfs ones which have the chain on the other side.
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Old 04-26-2009, 05:04 PM   #45
markk53
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How about a BSA or old unit Triumph? Sort of a unique blend of the past and the present. Maybe even a built XS650 twin... yeah, that's the ticket.
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