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Old 04-02-2014, 01:12 AM   #1
nicholastanguma OP
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How Dirt Capable is a Scrambler or Bonneville Hack?

I'm not interested in trail riding for bragging rights or clearing new jungle paths, and I don't care if some FFs think I'm not hardcore enough to sit at the cool moto kids lunch table. So I don't so much care about 15 inches of ground clearance, on-demand 2WD, or even speeds above 50mph.

Plus, Ural's reputation for "you just never know how it'll behave today" is too scary for long roadtrips IMO. How capable, then, does everyone think a Scrambler or Bonneville rig will be on dirt and gravel and iffy third-world pavement?

For example: places like Morocco, Turkey, Ethiopia, and the like?
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:51 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholastanguma View Post
I'm not interested in trail riding for bragging rights or clearing new jungle paths, and I don't care if some FFs think I'm not hardcore enough to sit at the cool moto kids lunch table. So I don't so much care about 15 inches of ground clearance, on-demand 2WD, or even speeds above 50mph.

Plus, Ural's reputation for "you just never know how it'll behave today" is too scary for long roadtrips IMO. How capable, then, does everyone think a Scrambler or Bonneville rig will be on dirt and gravel and iffy third-world pavement?

For example: places like Morocco, Turkey, Ethiopia, and the like?
I've read a trip report where a guy rode a Harley through Alaska and South America. I can't vouch for any bikes of that style personally, but there are quite a few guys that ride them how you intend on here. Throw some DS tires on and you should be good to go if you stay on some sort of road.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:08 AM   #3
SAM7
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So you're trying to replicate Steven Mcqueen!!! Well thats the first thing that comes in my mind when I hear someone asking Triumph Scrambler's off road capabilities.
Anyhow, Scramblers are great for gravel roads and the likes and can really 'glide' over potholes and such but trail riding? Nope, they aren't meant for trail riding. Get a KLX250S or Yamaha WR250R if thats what you're going to do. Secondly, you can't compare Scrambler to Bonneville since The Bonne use a 360 degree crank whereas The Scrambler fires at 270 degrees much like a V-Twin for better low end torque and traction much needed off road. Bonneville torque peaks at over 4,500rpm whereas Scrambler churns out all its torque at mere 2,500rpm. Check youtube videos and you'll notice their different exhaust notes right away.
Secondly, standard Bonneville has just 29" saddle whereas Scrambler sits at 33" so it has much more ground clearance. Thirdly, I highly doubt you can find knobbies for The Bonneville!
Scrambler all the way, mate. No comparison.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:31 AM   #4
nicholastanguma OP
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Originally Posted by SAM7 View Post
You can't compare Scrambler to Bonneville since The Bonne use a 360 degree crank whereas The Scrambler fires at 270 degrees much like a V-Twin for better low end torque and traction much needed off road. Bonneville torque peaks at over 4,500rpm whereas Scrambler churns out all its torque at mere 2,500rpm.

I was just mulling over this very topic earlier yesterday morning with Claude. Extremely helpful piece of info, mate. Thanks!
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:32 AM   #5
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Get a KLX250S or Yamaha WR250R if thats what you're going to do.

Not a chance. Modern motos are ugly as plastic can be.
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:25 AM   #6
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The scrambler will be fine, ffs many of us are using GSX1400 and GS1000 as hacks and doing some pretty serious offroad with them, and they are naked muscle bikes, the torque that the scrambler puts out will be fine, look at a Ural tub or one of Claude or Jays.......PERFECT !!

don't over complicate it, 3 wheels are more stable than 2 it will work a treat.
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Old 04-02-2014, 05:23 AM   #7
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The scrambler will be fine, ffs many of us are using GSX1400 and GS1000 as hacks and doing some pretty serious offroad with them, and they are naked muscle bikes, the torque that the scrambler puts out will be fine, look at a Ural tub or one of Claude or Jays.......PERFECT !!

don't over complicate it, 3 wheels are more stable than 2 it will work a treat.
Thats right, Russian made 2WD Ural Side Car is indeed another good option. Sure, everything will smoke it on pavement as it struggles to break the 60mph barrier. But once the pavement ends, The 'Rusky' will smoke even The KTM's and Wranglers. Although, Urals are on the expensive side but their grin factor alone more then makes up for it! They're simple design and are very easy to work on. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE will come up to you and ask questions about it like: "Does it served in WW2?". Its known as UDF (Ural Delay Factor) among Ural riders. Definately worth a look.
Really looking forward to buy one myself...
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Old 04-02-2014, 06:08 AM   #8
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This Scrambler/Velorex combination went stride-for-stride with the Ural rigs on dirt/gravel roads during the Uncertain?Rendezvous 2012 down in East Texas (2nd in line here):



Closer view of the rig:

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Old 04-02-2014, 07:07 AM   #9
mikejjmay
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If your intended use is mostly offroad, i would recommend a metal (steel or aluminum) tub.

Sure the fiberglass will hold up well to dirt road, but if you bottom it out or strike a trailside rock or tree, then you have some issues. There was a guy around here who had a velorex on his KLR and shattered the tub (not at all an issue with the velorex, it was not intended for that kind of use).

Again, fiberglass in great and for 90% of dirt would be fine (it is for me), but if you are doing more aggressive stuff, metal can be more easily pounded out or welded as opposed to laying new glass to repair your tub.
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Old 04-02-2014, 07:08 AM   #10
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P.S. I really like the look of that Triumph/velorex combo. May have to try to build one of those in the near future.
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Old 04-02-2014, 07:46 AM   #11
JustKip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM7 View Post
Thats right, Russian made 2WD Ural Side Car is indeed another good option. Sure, everything will smoke it on pavement as it struggles to break the 60mph barrier. But once the pavement ends, The 'Rusky' will smoke even The KTM's and Wranglers. Although, Urals are on the expensive side but their grin factor alone more then makes up for it! They're simple design and are very easy to work on. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE will come up to you and ask questions about it like: "Does it served in WW2?". Its known as UDF (Ural Delay Factor) among Ural riders. Definately worth a look.
Really looking forward to buy one myself...


You've never even seen a Wrangler or KTM off road, have you, foilhead?
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Old 04-02-2014, 07:52 AM   #12
jaydmc
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I have to disagree with the statement to stick with metal sidecars, Yes the Velorex fiberglass is way to thin and not of a high quality. The sidecars we make are of high quality. On the black dog several years back my wife and I hit a stump dead on with the sidecar nose at about 20mph with our KLR Enduro rig. The bike stopped, we did not. The sidecars fiberglass had a chip in it, nothing more. With metal there would have been a large dent. Fiberglass done proper can be far better then a metal sidecar. If you were to take a hammer and hit the nose of most metal sidecars you would have a dent, do the same with ours and you are likely to hit your self in the head as the hammer bounces off the fiberglass. We have sold many of our fiberglass "Ural" replacement fenders as the steel on the Ural fender is known to fatigue crack and fail where as the fiberglass ones do not and can take much more of a hit with out issue. Also fiberglass if it is damaged is far easier to repair.
Fiberglass can be laid up a few different ways. On lower quality sidecars (including many made in America sidecars) they use a process called "Chopper gun" where fiberglass thread is coated in resin chopped to a length usually around 3 inches and sprayed into the mold to land where ever it happens to land and in what ever direction it lands, thickness is controlled by the skill of the person laying it up. The way we do fiberglass is hand laid. We start with woven sheets as with a weave we can control the strength and thickness. We use several different thickness's and types of sheets and lay them up adding in extra layers and types of material as needed for a very strong sidecar. We also use a much higher quality more expensive resin as lower cost resins are not stable with temperature changes. With lower cost resins if you leave you sidecar in the sun all day it will be a different shape at the end of the day, this can be a problem if you have openings such as trunk lids.
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jaydmc screwed with this post 04-02-2014 at 08:05 AM Reason: "C:\Users\Jay\Dropbox\SIDECARS\=M72=\TRIUMPH\Scrambler\Triumph Scrambler M72DL compressed small (4).jpg"
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Old 04-02-2014, 08:27 AM   #13
mikejjmay
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Even though it was my post recommending the metal, I do absolutely agree with Jay. I had one of their fiberglass cars and it was VERY VERY strong and thick. No vibration and anything that you see in the thinner fiberglass cars, no dents or nicks from high speed running on dirt roads, etc. Really a wonderful tub. I brought up the issue of the fragility of fiberglass more so in the mindset of the velorex etc, as that was the rig pictured. I think it the end it will just come down to YOUR material preference, as there are pros and cons for each, and it is a debated subject.
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Old 04-02-2014, 08:48 AM   #14
SAM7
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Originally Posted by JustKip View Post


You've never even seen a Wrangler or KTM off road, have you, foilhead?
Well, Wrangler is certainly a well proven 4x4 but an Ural can ATLEAST keep the Wrangler in its sights in MOST conditions. About KTM? Well, I've seen KTM 250cc 4-Stroke Motocrosser getting blown away by a Ural... Believe me or not!!! A 450cc Motocross w/ a highly experienced rider would be a different story though...
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:42 AM   #15
BWeber
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Having put 34,000 on a 2006 Ural Patrol I would not consider a long trip with one until you have some miles on her. I know people who have not had many issues. Maybe I just got the one made early Monday morning but you better sort it out.



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