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Old 07-11-2014, 10:43 AM   #1
sweetlou OP
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SAS and Canisterectomy question

Getting ready to install my Wings exhaust on my 990 SMT... Quick question, instead of caping the air box SAS outlet, can I do the canisterectomy and connect the hoses from the engine directly to the airbox hole?

Basically instead of the line running to the charcoal canister in the tail, just unplug and run to opening in airbox where SAS used to go.

Opinions?

Lou
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Old 07-11-2014, 11:39 PM   #2
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Hey Lou,
113 views, no answers. I may not be the only one that doesn't really understand what you are trying to do. Can you clarify?

Just to be clear, carbon canister system consists of very small lines and a small valve between the fuel tank, the carbon canister, and the bottom of the throttle bodies. SAS system consists of a large air line from the air box through a large valve to a reed valve on the side of each head.

We're here for you, let us know.
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Old 07-12-2014, 07:47 AM   #3
sweetlou OP
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I think I solved my own problem...

When I remove the SAS, I have a opening left in the air box.

When I remove the canisterectomy, I have two holes in the throttle bodies.

Can I take the hoses from the throttle bodies, which used to run to the carbon canister, and just run it to the air box, where the SAS used to be.

BUT in thinking, the throttle bodies might "blow" dirty air/oil into the air box which could clog my air filter...

Which bringing me back to the original plan to just connect the two throttle bodies via a single hose as documented in the canisterectomy.

Decisions.

Lou
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Old 07-12-2014, 09:59 AM   #4
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Running those extra carb ports to the air box will play all kinds of hell with vacuum and will have all sorts of issues. You can either do as you say,,,, a hose to the opposite side and connect them or,,,, remove one of the hose barbs and install a machine screw (M4 IIRC) with a dab of gasket sealer. Then plug the other with a cap or such.
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Old 07-12-2014, 10:36 AM   #5
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They aren't carb ports, it's a 990. Not sure if that matters
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Old 07-12-2014, 11:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetlou View Post
They aren't carb ports, it's a 990. Not sure if that matters

Sorry I overlooked the 990 part....doesn't matter they are for vacuum (carbed or injected) . They either need to capped or plugged.
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Old 07-12-2014, 11:22 AM   #7
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The vacuum ports BELOW the carbs or throttle bodies that are in the INTAKE MANIFOLDS.

Plug with a machine screw and sealer as described above. Connecting the two ports together with another hose is madness, and will screw up intake vacuum as would connecting them to the airbox.
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Old 07-12-2014, 12:26 PM   #8
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I was kinda thinking the same thing - linking them together sounded mad. I'll figure out a way to cap them. Thanks

Lou
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Old 07-12-2014, 01:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporting Wood View Post
The vacuum ports BELOW the carbs or throttle bodies that are in the INTAKE MANIFOLDS.

Plug with a machine screw and sealer as described above. Connecting the two ports together with another hose is madness, and will screw up intake vacuum as would connecting them to the airbox.


Just to be clearer,,,, connecting the 2 ports on the same intake is what I thought sweetlou was talking about,,,, not connecting the front and rear. I agree the best solution is to plug them altogether. Less chance for any issue whatsoever.
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Old 07-12-2014, 09:29 PM   #10
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just to ad some more fuel to the discussion . . .

I believe that it's best to install some vacuum tubing on the unused ports and run them both back to the ABS enclosure, if you have ABS. Otherwise it's my spare inner tube storage box. Leave them tied up and out of the way, but available for when you want to be able to reach them even with both tanks installed.

Put some plugs (aka "screws") in the ends of the tubes and some simple spring compression clips on the tubing to keep the plugs from falling out.

What this gives you, is the ability to vacuum balance your throttle bodies. This is a VERY nice feature after you do anything that affects air flow, such as: valve adjust, Rottweiler install, RC8 trumpet install, UNI prefilter install, 2-1 install, Akra or Wings install, etc . . . . .
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Old 07-13-2014, 11:11 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeMongo View Post
I believe that it's best to install some vacuum tubing on the unused ports and run them both back to the ABS enclosure, if you have ABS. Otherwise it's my spare inner tube storage box. Leave them tied up and out of the way, but available for when you want to be able to reach them even with both tanks installed.

Put some plugs (aka "screws") in the ends of the tubes and some simple spring compression clips on the tubing to keep the plugs from falling out.

What this gives you, is the ability to vacuum balance your throttle bodies. This is a VERY nice feature after you do anything that affects air flow, such as: valve adjust, Rottweiler install, RC8 trumpet install, UNI prefilter install, 2-1 install, Akra or Wings install, etc . . . . .
This is what I did as well; otherwise just plug them off at the intake manifold. Some guys route one intake manifold to the other (and that is what is in the HOW for the 990) - I'm not sure why and I can't figure out why it would make sense but apparently it has helped some bikes. My 07 990 runs fine plugged off.
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Old 07-13-2014, 11:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeMongo View Post
What this gives you, is the ability to vacuum balance your throttle bodies. This is a VERY nice feature after you do anything that affects air flow, such as: valve adjust, Rottweiler install, RC8 trumpet install, UNI prefilter install, 2-1 install, Akra or Wings install, etc . . . . .
Yes, be kind to your future mechanic.

To summarize:

Vacuum lines from engine, plugged but accessable.

SAS in head, plugged.

SAS on airbox, plugged.

Vent lines from fuel tank, OPEN.

If you have TuneECU, turn off the SAI and EPC options, download it, turn it off, THEN pull the valves.

If you don't have TuneECU, you must leave the two valves or install resistors.
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Old 07-13-2014, 01:05 PM   #13
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The SAS is one valve, is the other valve the canister one in the tail? SAI? I thought SAI was the 2/3rd gear retarder.

I am the future mechanic! I like the idea of capping each individually; it makes the most logic. I couldn't wrap my head around connecting the two throttle bodies together. This is the reason for the thread!

I'll be sure to turn everything off in tuneecu before removing the valves.

Lou
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Old 07-13-2014, 10:56 PM   #14
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The vacuum lines are connected (tee'd) together from the factory. It doesn't make much difference because the lines are so small.

I think TuneECU is using different terms from Triumph or someone. SAI (secondary air injection) = SAS (secondary air system), EPI (emission pfuel ignorance) = (whatever KTM calls the cannister).

The SAS is the valve near the rear head.

The 'cannister valve' is in the tail or near the steering head on Adventures.

None of the KTM's in North America have the 2nd/3rd gear retarder.
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Old 07-14-2014, 06:33 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuber View Post
Yes, be kind to your future mechanic.

To summarize:

Vacuum lines from engine, plugged but accessable.

SAS in head, plugged.

SAS on airbox, plugged.

Vent lines from fuel tank, OPEN.

If you have TuneECU, turn off the SAI and EPC options, download it, turn it off, THEN pull the valves.

If you don't have TuneECU, you must leave the two valves or install resistors.
On the cannister valve, I think you always have to either leave in the cannister valve or run a resistor in its plug and to fake it out, and that EPC doesn't deal with that. On SAS, it is correct that you can either turn off SAI in TuneECU or run a resistor at SAS.
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