in"sight" to the 990 Fuel pump

[911racer]

Tahoeacr, would you "kit" work as a perminent install? what are you using for filters?

If it works out I would love to get my hands on a nice kit.

Graham.

[ridewestKTM]

Originally Posted by tahoeacr

You have to have a pressure regulator on all FI. Presssure changes as the Injectors are open longer so the regulator closes down to keep pressure constant. Injectors work best when pressure is kept between 48-52psi. All cars these days use an in-tank fuel pump that has the pressure regulator built in to the module(known as a dead head system). That way there is no return line coming back from the fuel rail. This does heat up the fuel in the tank. It's a trade off as the fuel keeps the pump temps more consistent. The 990 is the same as all is mounted up in the tank. Heat does not effect octane in a sense but does cause the molecules to get to moving around and you end up with fewer per the same amount of fuel=less burn and less hp.

If you can find a pump that will fit into the stock module you could use the stock regulator. Looking at the keihin pumps posted there not even rated high enough and the vibration limit is 2 G's less than the one I'm looking at which is rated at 9G's for 6 hours with a limit of 25G's. Also has a typical 5 minute safe run dry operation. I don't want to have to ever change a pump again water or fuel . The first post in this thread has an excellent picture of the module.

Looks like you have a handle on this -good work. Re: the octain issue some have said that as the fuel boils the ligher ends boil off first and (the claim is) reduce octain. My look into this couldn't support the theory because the lower BP compounds are not necessarly the higher octain compounds, but considering that mixtures don't always behave the way single compounds do - it's conjecture -to me anyway.
Regarding vibration: It depends on the frequency (or lack there of) for being concerned if "zero period" is assumed it'd take a crash to fail, otherwise harmonics would govern and on/in tank... not much of a concern- I wouldn't put g-rating to high a priority. IMO

[tahoeacr]

Originally Posted by ridewestKTM

Looks like you have a handle on this -good work. Re: the octain issue some have said that as the fuel boils the ligher ends boil off first and (the claim is) reduce octain. My look into this couldn't support the theory because the lower BP compounds are not necessarly the higher octain compounds, but considering that mixtures don't always behave the way single compounds do - it's conjecture -to me anyway.
Regarding vibration: It depends on the frequency (or lack there of) for being concerned if "zero period" is assumed it'd take a crash to fail, otherwise harmonics would govern and on/in tank... not much of a concern- I wouldn't put g-rating to high a priority. IMO

Rating is 9G's @ 10-55 Hz for six hours. Not making it much of a priority. I just know it's the only pump I can get to last in one of my cars. It has higher flow and pressure rating than what we need so over specing is better than just good enough .

[tahoeacr]

Originally Posted by 911racer

Tahoeacr, would you "kit" work as a perminent install? what are you using for filters?

If it works out I would love to get my hands on a nice kit.

Graham.

Perminent and forget about it(except filters of course). Mounted down low below tank level will keep gas in the filter/pump to keep the seals good. That way you don't use it until the stocker gives out. Haven't decided on the filter yet. We could go with a Motorcraft or such. $5 at any wal-mart so it would be easy to replace. They usually filter to 30 microns. Or higher dollar stuff like Canton with replaceable filters. They filter to 8 micron. That would help pump life but probably overkill and would be $50 more.

[Vicks]

Originally Posted by tahoeacr

So far I can't find a non-adj. pressure regulator at 3.5 bar that's cheaper.

forgive my ignorance, but whats the difference between an adjustable reg & a non-adjustable one ? what does it involve in terms of operation, maintenance and troubleshooting ?

if its cheaper and is as good as the non-adjustable one, i will go with the one you are suggesting

Edit : what kinda time frame are we looking at for the repalcement "Kit" ??

would it be ready & tested before end Sep'09 ?

[tahoeacr]

Originally Posted by Mr.Vicks

forgive my ignorance, but whats the difference between an adjustable reg & a non-adjustable one ? what does it involve in terms of operation, maintenance and troubleshooting ?

if its cheaper and is as good as the non-adjustable one, i will go with the one you are suggesting

Edit : what kinda time frame are we looking at for the repalcement "Kit" ??

would it be ready & tested before end Sep'09 ?

There is no difference in terms of maintenance/troubleshooting. An adjustable one has a screw in the top(visible in the picture) that if you thread it in the pressure raises. This gives you more control over your air/fuel ratio. If you don't care about that you just turn it in until the fuel pressure reads 52psi and forget it. The gauge is also helpful down the road for diagnostics. Bike not running as good. Gauge shows fuel pressure has dropped. Time to change fuel filter. Could have it up and running by next week. By the end of Sept. I would probably only have 1-2K on it. That would satisfy me cause I'm running with reliable manufactures that I have used. If I try and out source for cheaper price, than you get what you pay for and would need lots of miles to be sure. I have no interest in doing that cause I want a fuel system I will never have to work on again. Well, until the turbo goes on .

I see I didn't finish your ? Non adjustable regulators are set for the factory pressure. You need to know what that is. If you just go to a counter and ask for say a FPR for a 280Z, the guy at the counter will have no clue as to what pressure it is set for. Then you need to find one that mounts to the fuel rail(old school). In-tank kind won't work cause there built in to a module to drop in the tank.

[Vicks]

Originally Posted by tahoeacr

There is no difference in terms of maintenance/troubleshooting. An adjustable one has a screw in the top(visible in the picture) that if you thread it in the pressure raises. This gives you more control over your air/fuel ratio. If you don't care about that you just turn it in until the fuel pressure reads 52psi and forget it. The gauge is also helpful down the road for diagnostics. Bike not running as good. Gauge shows fuel pressure has dropped. Time to change fuel filter. Could have it up and running by next week. By the end of Sept. I would probably only have 1-2K on it. That would satisfy me cause I'm running with reliable manufactures that I have used. If I try and out source for cheaper price, than you get what you pay for and would need lots of miles to be sure. I have no interest in doing that cause I want a fuel system I will never have to work on again. Well, until the turbo goes on .

good stuff to know.

agree on the price-reliability thing.

[tahoeacr]

Anyone have a dead fuel pump module? Like to get my hands on our stock FPR. Don't want to pull mine out cause if it ain't broke don't fool with it.

[sp4ce]

Originally Posted by Yzlvr

Anyone find the o rings for the base of the pump at an auto part store? I would like to get a spare set, but they are not cheap from KTM.

The one likely to be damaged is a -229. You won't need it, but the other is a -230.



(This is what I put in my bike. They are standard sized closest approximations to the KTM metric sized o-rings - they differ in ID and CS by a half mm or so. I have no clue what compound the KTM o-rings are. I used a Nitrile (Buna-N) o-ring for one and a Viton one for the other. I have gotten conflicting information as to which material has superior resistance to gasoline. I'll let you know how they worked out next time I have the fuel pump out.)

[twodollardoug]

tahoeracer, what if you removed the stock f/p from the start? i think cjracer fabbed up a block off plate with a threaded hole, that you could posibly use to feed the new fuel pump. i would love to get rid of the stocker, and like you said, forget about f/p problems. so if you come up with a kit, i'll take 2, and rig one for my super duke.

[G-Funk]

Greetings, Hello, and I have the unfortunate-ness of now posting in this thread.

Here's my thread, it'll spill out (pun intended) all the details .....

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=493999

I have an 07 990a, and the o-rings are obviously shot.

What I would like to know is;

1. looking at the pics in my thread - what the hell is the sqaure rubber seal that is fitted between the pump and the tank? I'm wondering if the previous owner put this in place after scoring the Aqualines, as I can not find a part number for this anywhere I've searched so far.

2. Do I really need the sqaure rubber seal? The couple posters to my thread just stated to buy over-sized o-rings.

3. And btw - thank you Mr. Vicks for your time and pics. - with now knowing the size and dia. of the stock o-rings, what size should I get for over-sized o-rings?

Mucho thanks for any info .....

G.

[Vicks]

Originally Posted by G-Funk

Greetings, Hello, and I have the unfortunate-ness of now posting in this thread.

Here's my thread, it'll spill out (pun intended) all the details .....

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=493999

I have an 07 990a, and the o-rings are obviously shot.

What I would like to know is;

1. looking at the pics in my thread - what the hell is the sqaure rubber seal that is fitted between the pump and the tank? I'm wondering if the previous owner put this in place after scoring the Aqualines, as I can not find a part number for this anywhere I've searched so far.

2. Do I really need the sqaure rubber seal? The couple posters to my thread just stated to buy over-sized o-rings.

3. And btw - thank you Mr. Vicks for your time and pics. - with now knowing the size and dia. of the stock o-rings, what size should I get for over-sized o-rings?

Mucho thanks for any info .....

G.

I guess you should simply chuck those square o-rings and use the stock O-rings, take the pump with you to any store and they will fix u up with a set of suitable O-rings in a flash.

[Yzlvr]

Well I got my 08 990S back today and it was the fuel pump that went out. Got a spare on order, so if it happens again I can swap it out on the trail...

Just over 7K on the bike, 11mos old.

Jeff, did you get that pump on yet?

[Gimme 2]

Originally Posted by Yzlvr

Well I got my 08 990S back today and it was the fuel pump that went out. Got a spare on order, so if it happens again I can swap it out on the trail...

Just over 7K on the bike, 11mos old.

Jeff, did you get that pump on yet?

Be sure to get the old one from them , i wish i would have!!
There only gonna chuck it in the skip.

[Yzlvr]

They said that ktm wants it back.