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Old 05-15-2009, 09:36 AM   #1
Trust OP
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Joined: Jun 2008
Location: pines & sand, NC
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Trust vs. the Goldwing [hack]

Prologue

I'm a self-proclaimed geek and sucker for projects. So when my friend informed me that her old iBook G3 was functioning on the level of a doorstop, I offered to buy it from her for $100. I'm also a haggler and trader. The iBook had multiple issues, but first it needed a new harddrive. Enter an old roommate who had some spare laptop drives (2.5") lying around. I traded him my old router w/ 9dB corner antenna that I got for less than $25 after mail-in rebate for a 40GB drive. iBook + drive + weekend = one newly functioning laptop. This thing was still a brick - you couldn't move the lid once you openned it, or the backlight thought you'd closed the thing and would shut off, but the LCD kept functioning. What a piece of work. But hey - for $125, it kept me in touch with the world during a year of travels and travails. I finally got sick of it, bought one of the first intel iMacs and put the iBook on Craigslist. No dice in months, despite many "interested" parties. ("Yeah man, I want your laptop, here, trade me this sic set of speakers man...." )

In the meantime, I'd gotten hungry for another motorcycle project, and when the guys didn't bite in the trade for the paintball gear, I emailed a fellow who had been repeatedly posting his "Non-running goldwing with sidecar," and proposed an even trade. He seemed more excited about it than I was (which is impressive ). I grabbed a friend's trailer and we took the ride out to meet the bike and show the owner the laptop. He was satisfied, and since his ad was for $300, we wrote up the paperwork as a $300 purchase. [YFF's do what you want, I feel honesty is the best way to go.] (He didn't know I got the laptop for $125... )

So - paperwork done, we loaded up the trailer (and SUV) with the bike, hack, and parts, and drove it home!


That was.... a while ago. I'll keep the rest of this first post available to do any indexing necessary.

Oh, specs: Bike is a 1982 Goldwing (GL1100 I think) with unknown type of hack.
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Old 05-15-2009, 09:41 AM   #2
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Wink Round 2

Yes, there was no Round 1. Well - there was, but I didn't take many, if any, pictures - because at that point I was just pushing through and seeing what could be done. I didn't realize it would come to what it has.

So we'll pick up with our hero in mid-April. At this point he's realized: The engine is stuck. The pistons won't budge, and he probably fried something starter-related when stubbornly trying to start it without drenching the thing in PB-Blaster. He's also learned that a fully-faired bike is a PAIN to strip, especially one that sat outside under a loosely secured cover for two years.

By mid-April (this year), I had the fairings off, the valve covers and valves off (after the failed attempt to break free the motor), and finally accepted that the engine would be coming out of the frame ... at least the cylinders needed work, if nothing else.





Did I mention it was stored outside?



Yeah; outside and under a cover - that leaked enough so that when we picked it up water ran out from some crevice in which it had been collecting.
Here's another shot of the right side cylinders:



Thanks to Nemo DeNovo and his Dnepr Ressurection, I got some inspiration and hope to keep going on this project, or it likely would not have made it past the point of opening up the cylinders and finding that gunk. I don't need any more projects....
See what I mean?



But hey - it cost me basically $125!!! I can't not try!!!


So I beat on it for the beginning of April, trying to get the valve covers off. I finally got them off, and found the aforementiond goo. First attempt to get the pistons moving was two weeks straight of PB-Blaster around the pistons, and beating on them with a wood block and hammer. Yeah, no dice. Then I added heat! ... still no dice. Okay screw it, I'm just going to have to pull the pistons off.

No problem, did it with the DR650 - how much harder can it be with a GoldWing???








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Old 05-15-2009, 10:27 AM   #3
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Round 3

I finally gave in and started taking pictures when I realized what I'd gotten myself into.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trust
Okay screw it, I'm just going to have to pull the pistons off.
No problem, did it with the DR650 - how much harder can it be with a GoldWing???
Never, ever, EVER say those words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clymer Manual
On the great and noble GoldWing, to remove the cylinders, one must split the case.
Uhhhhh, say what?? I didn't sign up for this! $#&%, yes I did. Excellent. Turns out, on the great and noble GoldWing, when one wishes to remove split the case, one must also split the frame. :Eek Are you for real? How the heck to split the frame? Read the manual dummy. This was when I decided to take some pics and share with all YFFs

This is the front point where the frame comes apart. [Keep in mind, by this point, I've removed the exhaust, fairings, and engine guards. If you ever decide to repeat what I've done, those removals alone can take a day or more.] Remove the nut and the acorn nut, and it should pop right off, right? Hah. Sure.



With the front point loose (those are through-bolts, they stay on the part of the frame that will remain), it was time for the rear-points. Here's a shot of them. Note: My camera sucks. I got it from the same friend that I got the laptop from, when she was done using the camera. I got the camera for free. Deal with it. Or you can buy me a new one!



Dead center of that image there are actually two bolts like on the front. I know, it doesn't look like it, that's because 1, the image sucks, and 2, there's a footrest in the way! I had avoided taking that footrest off because the nut holding it on there - well - here, I'll just show you.



See that nut just above and right-of center in the image? There's about 1.5mm of clearance between that nut and the footrest. What a pain to get off. Well that nut was also holding the removeable portion of the frame. So it had to come off. Patience young grasshoppah... Okay Mister Miyagi, it's off, now what? Now, you grind away the spacer that has rusted to the bolt behind it. What? Yes, Trust-San, you use your trusty dremel and three cut off wheels to grind your way through the rusted spacer which has now affixed itself to the through-bolt holding the removeable frame to the main frame.




Fraaaaack.




You'll notice that I'm using a flashlight instead of a flash. That's because my camera eats batteries for lunch as soon as the flash is even enabled. So unless it's a high-importance shot, y'all are gett'n ambient light... or a flashlight if necessary.

Three cutting wheels on the dremel, two nostrils full of steel dust, and one hour later, the sucker comes loose, and then I pry it off. The removeable portion of the frame follows suit.


(That image also shows the left side cylinders. The wetness is residual PB-Blaster.)
I literally yelled "Hallelujia!" I was so relieved this thing was even off, I wasn't thinking about how much there's left to be done. Here's an image of the threads from that bolt that the spacer was rusted on to. I think I'm going to need a die to clean that up a bit.



Okay - now we just "support the engine with a floor jack" and slide the thing right out! When am I going to learn? I have a craftsman roly jack that's not exactly a scissor jack, but it is a lever-type, not a bottle type. I could barely get the jack under the engine with a 2x4 in there to protect the block, and had one heck of a time balancing the engine on the jack. I start trying to maneuver, and realize "Something is not right here." Well - first thing's first: check the manual!







Freaking camera. It says
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Manual
Disconnect the neutral switch wire as soon as it is accessible.
Great, where's that? According the the blurry manual, it should be "somewhere near" one of those two bottom places that those numbers are pointing to. There's nothing in either of those places on my bike. So I do the next best thing - go hunting. This looks like it might be it!



But the manual wants me to disconnect it at the engine .... I see no way to do so. So instead I use the quick release connecters further up the line.



Fantastic, manual says it's loose, let's move it! .... It won't budge. Well - it wil budge, but not MOVE. Um, okay - .... let's try totally removing some of those motor mounts that I simply disconnected earlier. Here's one! I took out the lower bolt earlier, but what happens if I remove the other two bolts as well, and take off the whole brace??



Hey, it moves for real now! ... no wait, it doesn't, it just moves more. Fraaack. Seriously, wtf???
Some more poking around reveals that another motor mount that I had removed the bolt from before was still sticking. The right-side rear motor mount, shown below. I whacked it good with a wood block and hammer, and wahooooooo! The motor's free!!



Now I can just slide the whole thing over to the pallet, using the craftsman jack - oooooooh sh1t! Something is hung up! .... The manual says to disconnect the clutch cable at the motor. (Said cable is conveniently located in the above image.) I looked and looked and looked and looked ... and really couldn't figure it out. So instead I disconnected it at the clutch lever, but didn't de-route the cable. Well now it's hung up and almost pulls the motor off the jack. Okay, de-route the cable and set the thing on the pallet.



And now that the engine is out - it turns out that I really could have disconnected the cable at the engine; I was looking way too hard. I found the spot I was looking for and disconnected the cable. Whoops, chalk another up to experience.




Next, SPLITTING THOSE CASES!!!!












Oh, and yes - there *is* a hack buried in here! .... somewhere....
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Old 05-15-2009, 10:36 AM   #4
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put a Subaru engine in there and call it done
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Old 05-15-2009, 10:48 AM   #5
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Eh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMenace
put a Subaru engine in there and call it done
For realz?
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:09 AM   #6
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I've seen it done. Don't have any details, but it probably wouldn't be any harder than bringing that lump of rust back to life
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Old 05-15-2009, 12:31 PM   #7
Trust OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMenace
I've seen it done. Don't have any details, but it probably wouldn't be any harder than bringing that lump of rust back to life
Does sound interesting. If I could source an inexpensive subaru engine I'd consider it.... if anyone finds sources on adapting the drive etc. let me know.

Oh- I have zero fabrication facilities and no trailer or truck at easy access...
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Old 05-15-2009, 12:49 PM   #8
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DOOD yous need a new camera
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Old 05-15-2009, 01:09 PM   #9
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Wicked

All right - so I got the bugger out of the frame.
Now to get the case open and see what the issue is. Someone (don't remember what thread) posted about single handedly removing an engine with no dropping, cussing, or back-breaking, basically by jacking the engine up and out of the frame, and the sliding it onto a waiting milk crate. My milk crates are all full or gone, so the pallet from shipping an office laserjet that now lives solely to provide a sturdy mounting point for my vice would have to do.

You're looking at the rear and left sides of the case.


Not a lot of wiggle room, but it works. If the vice wasn't there, it'd be perfect.
That rear portion of the case has to come off. The book says to remove the clutch body, but that wasn't necessary to remove the rear portion of the case. [I find out later, maybe it would have just been better to do that in the first place.] Here's the case, laying on its right side, showing the back loose. There were three bolts that looked

like the held the clutch cover on that needed to be removed to get the whole of the rear case off. Two of those bolts remained in the main case.



The back of the motor with the rear case removed (still lying on its right side)



Perspective shot with the case now lying on its left side. Note the pool of liquid underneath and the fresh stains on the pallet. More old oil/fuel mix was lurking in the rear case and came pouring out when I broke that gasket seal.



To split the engine case, first you have to remove three bolts from the right side of the case. (Adirondak safety footwear...)



Another view of that foul stenching liquid...



After the bolts are out of the right side, then come the ones on the left. The book says three bolts with 10mm heads and 10 bolts with 8mm heads. (IIRC) Well, this motor had 6 bolts with 14mm heads, and 12 bolts with 10mm heads. The 14mm heads had one hiding, that I'm pointing to in this image. Oh - and at the far right of this image is also another bolt with a 12mm head. Don't forget that one either - I almost did, even though the book says nothing about it.



After loosening up all the bolts, I decided to sanity check and make sure there was nothing else holding the cases together before I tried to get them apart. Good thing I did - the front case needed to come off too. This is the part of the case where the oil filter and cooling system attachments are. (The left have of the picture...)



You can see the front case removed here. The oil sending bits and coolant stuff are at the bottom of the image, and the cam drive and tenioners are at the top.



Well - everything's loose; bang the crap out of it with a hammer and block of wood until the thing separates. Finally, the front of the case opens a bit.



Trying to open the front some more....



Well - the front and bottom came open with relative ease. ("Relative" in big quotation marks.) The back top corner however was wickedly stuck. I kept checking bolts, and remembering very hard not to pry with any screw drivers, lest I should damage the joining surfaces of the cases. I did at point point find that the 12mm bolt seemed to be hung

up, but freed that and it didn't immediately rectify the situation, so I figured that it had just worked its way in. Finally.... daylight in the top of the case!



At which point everything would work apart for about half an inch, and then stop again. I was super puzzled. I tried taking the clutch out, but couldn't get a good grip on the locknut to take that off. (Strangely shaped special nut.) Finally, I loosened the small-ish gear that drives a really thick chain to the clutch on the bottom of the rear of the case. I don't know what that gear is - I'm guessing it's connected to the transmission. This was late last night and I just wanted to get it apart. See lower left of case below/beside clutch



So I took the bolt off, the gear dropped over towards the clutch, clutch and transmission dropped into the bottom (right half) of the case, lifted and wiggled, and boink! Off pops the top (left side of the) case!



Wooooohooooooeeeeee!!!!!


That has been weeks in the coming....



The pistons in the right side of the case half don't move yet - but I'll get to that hopefully this weekend. In the meantime, what do y'all think: Is the rust/markings in this image going to be prohibitive or an issue?
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Old 05-15-2009, 04:10 PM   #10
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Trust, ahhhhh good luck with all that.

I recently sold my GL1100 outfit to a mate of mine here on the forum, Johno, and it had a shitload of parts so pm him and he might sell some to you if you need them.

Also while you have the cases split, at the front lower section of the engine, check the play of the gearbox selector fork, this fork/arm can wear and cause a few problems changing gears between 2nd and 3rd.

I'll post a pic of what I mean later.

Good luck with your project, they're a great bike for outfits.

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Old 05-15-2009, 05:45 PM   #11
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Hey Trust

Why not find a used low mileage GL1100 motor that works? I found one at a salvage yard for $400 with 30k on it. I now have 60k+ on it, and all I had to do was pull the old motor out and put the new one in.

If you're in need, I still have my old '81 GL1100 motor. It had low compression, used oil at high rpm, and it sometimes would slip out of maybe 3rd gear. It towed a sidecar, and had 85k on the motor when I pulled it. It was running when I pulled it, and has been stored in a dry unheated shed. I'll sell it cheap for parts if interested.

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Old 05-16-2009, 06:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS
Hey Trust

Why not find a used low mileage GL1100 motor that works? I found one at a salvage yard for $400 with 30k on it. I now have 60k+ on it, and all I had to do was pull the old motor out and put the new one in.

If you're in need, I still have my old '81 GL1100 motor. It had low compression, used oil at high rpm, and it sometimes would slip out of maybe 3rd gear. It towed a sidecar, and had 85k on the motor when I pulled it. It was running when I pulled it, and has been stored in a dry unheated shed. I'll sell it cheap for parts if interested.

MikeS

Gotta agree with Mike. There are GL1100 engines and even complete bikes out there at good prices. Good enough to make doing a real rebuild on an exisitng one questionable.
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Old 05-16-2009, 12:42 PM   #13
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The rust on those gears doesn't look bad enough to cause a problem. Use a small wire brush to clean it off. As long as there's no serious pitting of the gear teeth it'll be fine, some discoloration is OK. If you undo the rods on the pistons that are stuck, then you can pull the crank and the tranny shafts and get everything else out of the case. Mark the rods & caps and don't mix them up, they are not interchangeable. You may have to use a press to get the stuck pistons out, be careful to get the piston centered under the press when you do it. If the piston cocks in the cylinder when you press it, you could break something. Also, support both edges of the case completely while pressing so you don't warp the case.

I agree it would be easier to just change the engine, but that one can be saved with a new set of pistons. I'd recommend boring it to the first oversize tho, just to be sure all the rust pitting is gone.

A Subaru engine ain't going to work unless you put a BMW/Ural/Dnepr/Chang tranny behind it, cause yours is part of the engine. It would be alot of fun tho, you can get well over 200 horsepower out of a Subaru 4 cylinder. But it would be hell to kickstart, so BMW or Ural trans would be your best bet
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Old 05-18-2009, 07:38 AM   #14
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Thumb Thanks for the Advice

Excellent guys, thanks for the advice. And while I think the subaru engine would be awesome, the used GL drop in just seems like a good choice.

I found this on eb@y today: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=120420578372

The ebay item is from a 1982, the bike I have is a 1983. They seemed to be awefully darn close from everything I could find in the pictures; anyone know the interchangeability of an '82 and an '83?
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:24 AM   #15
RedMenace
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I'd mine the Goldwing sites for info. Some years seemed to eat the alternators and you had to split the cases to fix them. I think they improved the design later, but I have no firsthand knowledge. I'd figure out the best year that looks like it fits and go looking for that motor.
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