Trust vs. the Goldwing [hack]

[tallnbig68]

Originally Posted by Trust

Excellent guys, thanks for the advice. And while I think the subaru engine would be awesome, the used GL drop in just seems like a good choice.

I found this on eb@y today: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=120420578372

The ebay item is from a 1982, the bike I have is a 1983. They seemed to be awefully darn close from everything I could find in the pictures; anyone know the interchangeability of an '82 and an '83?

1980 ,1981 and 1982 Goldwings were probably the fastest off the mark Carburated Wings made. The 1983 wing had a lower gear ratio than
the first three years.

ie. at 100 kilometres and hour (64 mph) the tach on the first three years of Goldwings will read 4000 rpm.

With the 1983 Wing that engine will be turning over at 3400 rpm for the same 64 mph.

Which in theory is somewhat better for hauling a sidecar. Lower RPM< more torque.

Now...althugh you're well into it and I have no idea where you dwell...

I have sitting here a pristine 1981 Honda Goldwing Interstate
for sale. Pristine in that it runs and is in regular use.
it has 150,000 mies on the clock, doesn't burn oil and goes like stink.

And it has had in its past had a Hedingham sidecar mounted.

The bike runs, very well.

I'll take US$2100 for it...and I am located an hour from the uS-Canadian border...

[Trust]

Thanks Red, will do.

A quick google search turns up several sites and forums about GoldWings. Since I didn't know which was best, I checked a few, and a few non-forum sites as well. If someone can refer me to a favorite GoldWing forum I'd be appreciative. Seems the failures are common on GL1200's (multiple years, early 80's) and GL1100's from 1981.

Any more info and I'm grateful, definitely.

[Trust]

And I got the crank out over the weekend, but the right-side pistons are still in that side's case. While the prospect of redoing a whole engine lures me from the project idea; the practicality of a drop-in replacement gives strong cause to practicality. I'll chase the replacement route for a bit and see how that goes.

[double_entendre]

Fookin' awesome project. Wife would probably come unglued if I took up that much space in the garage.

Regarding your bolt size comment, doesn't the manual list the sizes based on the thread size, not the head size, thus the seeming disconnect?

Awesomely cool project to tackle regardless.



Rancho

[Nemo DeNovo]

"I drink to make other people interesting."
--Dorothy Parker (1893-1967)

"There's a bunch of things I find myself doing where I think: This would be a dumb way to die."
--Stagehand


+1

[Trust]

Originally Posted by 1-up

1980 ,1981 and 1982 Goldwings were probably the fastest off the mark Carburated Wings made. The 1983 wing had a lower gear ratio than
the first three years.

ie. at 100 kilometres and hour (64 mph) the tach on the first three years of Goldwings will read 4000 rpm.

With the 1983 Wing that engine will be turning over at 3400 rpm for the same 64 mph.

Which in theory is somewhat better for hauling a sidecar. Lower RPM< more torque.

Now...althugh you're well into it and I have no idea where you dwell...

I have sitting here a pristine 1981 Honda Goldwing Interstate
for sale. Pristine in that it runs and is in regular use.
it has 150,000 mies on the clock, doesn't burn oil and goes like stink.

And it has had in its past had a Hedingham sidecar mounted.

The bike runs, very well.

I'll take US$2100 for it...and I am located an hour from the uS-Canadian border...

Thanks 1-up, about to pull the trigger on an '83;
Any last info before I do that concerning issues about interchangeability? Everything so far looks like they'll check out, but I have someone who can pick up the engine and deliver it to me this weekend, so I figure I'll jump.

[CapoLee]

Good luck.Thanks for bringing the dead to life.

[Trust]

Originally Posted by CapoLee

Good luck.Thanks for bringing the dead to life.

Thanks mate.





Just got off the phone with the seller of the old engine - it's bought and paid for; associate picks it up this weekend and trips the kit up to CNY for me, where we hopefully install it (with his help) This weekend!!

[He will hopefully bring his better camera for the pictures....]

[Nemo DeNovo]

[Trust]

[Wngnut]

Yeah..... She runs again!!! I assume you are going to put the sidecar back on? Thanks for sharing.

[Trust]

So there's an album of the project here, if any of you want to just view pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/detsurt/...eat=directlink


When we left off, I was going to buy a new motor, instead of hone the cylinders and reassemble the engine that I gutted.
I went on ebay, hoping to get something dirt cheap - found an engine just outside of Pittsburgh for around two hundred. I missed that auction by hours due to some birthday partying. No mind though, it was an engine from an '82, and that might not have been a direct drop-in. The following weeks had me track down an '83 in Eastern Ohio, and I had a friend pick it up for me after the sale completed. (Saved me $300 in shipping!) So he drove the engine up here, and we spent the weekend putting it in. 15 minutes before he left, we hooked up jumper cables to the car (the GL battery was dead - I found this out after leaving it on the charger to trickle... ) - and she fired up!


The long story:

The tub is in good condition, I snapped a few pictures of it before...


But before we can pull the tub, gotta get the tug runnin'!

The engine arrives late Friday afternoon.


Cue Angelic Chorus:



Cue ominous sounding dark chorus:



First: Tie everything that hangs in the way, out of the way! Run all the cables you can. Hoses too, get them as close as possible.


That thing's goin in that hole. After much wiggling, finagling, and coaxing, it's in. Really - it was several hours of wiggling, finagling, and coaxing.



If you ever have to do this, it's worth it to mention; the engine doesn't have to be level - in fact, the rear is slightly more elevated than the front; we ended up proping it up with a scrap board.



Remember to keep everything tied up out of your way (including the fuel pump)



This bolt in on the right side of the frame - it goes in first. Once this one is in, it's much easier going. It took some persuading with a big bar...



The upper engine mount (triangle with three chrome bolts) can stay on the right side of the frame. Taking the left one off helps in removal. As soon as you can, get the left one back on, and use the bottom of the three chrome bolts as your second point to secure the engine to the frame.



Note: I haven't reinstalled the frame rail (left side of frame) yet.
Here's the left side upper engine mount. If you have to take the engine back out to move something once it's in, remember: You have to remove this piece again!



In our case, we had neglected to grab the vacuum hose seen at the top of this picture (the picture is the rear case of the old engine). We were trying to figure out what the vacuum hose could be for, since it wasn't connected to anything when I got the bike originally. A veteran Honda mech said it was for the timing advance - and attaches to the carburetor.
This is the beast of a carburetor. Holy cow. The thing had to be partially assembled, then inserted into the frame, then assembled the rest of the way. If you've done an older goldwing carb before; you know there are these plastic rings that make the seal in the throat of the piston that operates the needle. I suppose these are better than easily broken bladders, but ... well there are bladders there anyway, they're just in a different spot. And yes, I could probably go back in and redo the bladders and it would be good, as they were on their way out....



Don't forget to plug the intake and sparkplug holes: my partner in crime reminded me that we didn't want to be taking apart this engine to find a wayward piece of anything.



Connect the throttle and choke cables. Man - those things are a bear. Cheers for nimble fingers. ... and to think - I have to take it all apart to put the carb rebuild kits in .... I'm getting ahead of myself though...



In and all hooked up. Oil filled (new filter ordered), new plugs (autolites) in (NGK's ordered), Coolant system filled with water (no point in wasting antifreeze if there's a leak) - I'll just flush it all later anyway, tank cleaned out of as much old gas as possible (use a shopvac with hose on the blower nozzle to put positive pressure in the filler hole, and just drain the regular feeder hose into the waste container - worked like a charm!), new gas in and starter fluid ready.





Fire in the hole....



Yeeeeeaaaaahhhh!!!
It runs!!



Let it run for a few minutes to get everything circulating, check for leaks, and shut it off.





Turns out there's some gas leaking from the carbs, there's oil burning off the pipes, and a little bit of water coming out of the coolant system (hose clamp that wasn't quite tight enough, or small enough). No major explosions, or other errors, and it runs! On the list now:


Rebuild the carbs
Rebuild the brakes
Oil filter change (change the oil again?)
Proper hose clamps on the coolant system (and fill with antifreeze)
Possibly replace the tires (car tire on the rear?)
Tighten the handlebars
.....



More pictures via that first link, if you're interested.

[Trust]

Technically the camera was used, but it's new to me, and it was a gift. Beggars and choosers and whatnot...



So those plastic rings in the carb throat that I mentioned earlier? I did so because one was missing when I reassembled the carbs. P.O. had started that job, so I wasn't sure where it went, and figured it was just missing. Six days of constant rain in CNY had the garage on the damp side though, so when I moved the tub to discover standing water underneath it, I also found some of the old boxes from the PO had been saturated as well. It was good though: Sorting out the parts he had boxed, I found that missing plastic ring!


Note, one side is textured, the other is flat. Texture up (I believe).



Again, that carb is a Pain to remove and reinstall, so I just did the work with it mostly on the bike. Be careful putting throat pistons back in - if those needles don't line up, you may be hurt'n!



You can see the two plastic rings - the left one is in the carb body already, the right one is on top of the carb. That ring was what was missing. Clearly, the bike will run without it, but I'm guessing it's better with.



In reassembling the carb, I found that one of the springs had stretched or been broken. Either way, the end (where it decreases in frequency) didn't exist - but the spring over all was a big longer. I reasoned that the metal was the same thickness, and the spring itself slightly longer, so it would probably be okay.



Putting the pistons back in the carbs and the tops on was again a tight fit - you can see I pulled off one of the air intakes and rotated the other one out of the way at the bottom of this image.



Carbs back together.



Then I bled the brakes. [I got a new tool - and wanted to use the Mityvac more.] This was going fine (after I spilled brake fluid EVERYWHERE forgetting that righty tighty and lefty loosy are reversed when you're looking the other way on the bolt - thankfully I didn't strip out the brake caliper, but did end up drenching everything in water to make sure I got all the fluid off) ... the left side caliper bled just fine, but the right one wasn't bleeding at all.



The shop manual I have is for 77's on up, and I don't bother to look at the supplemental for additional information before starting a job. So I start to trace the line that feeds the right side caliper.... Hm, it goes up, then back through the forks....



Then it meets the metal brake line at a junction, then that piece continues rear-ward along the frame....



Then that metal piece rejoins a flexible line, and the flex line runs down the frame tube as it keeps going towards the rear.... (Funny, this thing is getting near the rear reservoir)



And finally runs down to .... WTF????



I go and look in the supplemental information - sure enough, the rear pedal actuates an integrated brake line that feeds a mediator valve that splits the fluid to both the rear caliper, and front-right caliper. Oops. Well, I wanted to rebuild the rear MC anyway. (poor picture) The part that looks all cruddy and gummed up is the rear master cylinder....



Tada....



It helped me to take off the passenger floorboard:



10mm wrench on the joint nut on top of the cylinder, a little bit of fluid, and off it came.



I found out that all the fluid had leaked onto the cylinder itself, or just drained out. The cylinder was covered in goo, which I mostly cleaned off. Then to get the circlip out of the bottom of the cylinder. At first, I couldn't even see that there was still a circlip in there. A few squirts of PB Blaster and a flathead had it cleaned up enough for me to see.



Then, cleaned out the holes in the circlip with a bobby pin, and took a small hammer to the circlip to get it spinning in place. [The idea was not to drive the circlip out with the hammer, but just to loosen it up in its track. It wouldn't even turn, let alone come out with the circlip pliers I had.] As soon as the clip was turning in there, got some pliers, and viola!



Next, the master cylinder piston. It was wicked stuck. Channellocks, stand on the board the vice is clamped to, pull with everything you've got. Don't fall off when it finally pops loose.



Then the screws for the hose fitting. Superbly gummed up, I didn't want to strip them the way I had the DR's master cylinder screws the day before, so I cleaned up the head fitting for the impact hammer using a very small screwdrive to scrape as much of the rust out of the philips head socket as I could.



Impact Hammer for the win.



Well, that O-ring certainly needs cleaned up, but it's probably salvageable.



And now I have this thing that needs painted. Anyone paint one of these before? I figure the calipers will need done as well, on both the GL and the DR, so I'm hoping for a nice blanked solution that will let me paint both metal surfaces with one paint (heat resistant?), preferably black. Yes, I will clean the old paint off before I put the new stuff on. Brake fluid makes a great paint stripper.





Next, clean all the brake systems!
(This was the progress this weekend, so you're all caught up now...)

Oh, one final thing: In the fourth and sixth pictures, you can see linkages connecting the butterfly valves in the carbs to each other - those linkages feel stiff/slow; is there a grease that should be applied to them? They seem to be returning slowly, although the built-in return on the throttle cables are taking care of that....

[Fastjunk]

Hey, great write-up.

I'm in a very similar situation with a GL1100 and my engine turns over by hand but very tough.

What were you planning to do when you split the cases? Rebuild it completely?

[Trust]

Originally Posted by Fastjunk

Hey, great write-up.

I'm in a very similar situation with a GL1100 and my engine turns over by hand but very tough.

What were you planning to do when you split the cases? Rebuild it completely?

Well, the old cases are already split and honestly at this point they're just sitting. I hadn't planned to do anything really... know someone who could use 'em? They're in kinda rough shape....