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Old 07-04-2014, 03:17 PM   #1
CodeMonkee OP
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Why shouldn't I buy this (SIG 516 Pistol)?

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProdu...ing-brace.aspx

Ten inch barrel AR pistol, piston system with 4 position valve, with "stabilizing brace".

I've wanted an AR just to have one, but I am not a fan of ARs for self-defense (didn't like DIG systems, felt the platform was too fragile compared to AK, etc.), but they are superior platforms for accuracy and I do like the ability to swap out uppers - which is why I would want the "pistol" version so I could run it with the 10" barrel and brace, then make it a rifle by putting on a 16" barrel (maybe something like 300 BLK or something like that for pig hunting) - maybe someday if I get real ambitious, an upper with an integral suppressor, or just put a suppressor on the short barrel.

I like the piston system, I like the 4 position valve, I like the full length rail (I am a big fan of scout scopes), I like the BUIS) I like the SIG name (or Colt, or S&W) - I prefer not to build my own - I think there is value in having an off-the-shelf platform and modifying it from there. The fact that I will pay more is not a huge consideration for me.
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CodeMonkee screwed with this post 07-04-2014 at 03:46 PM
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Old 07-04-2014, 06:45 PM   #2
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Nobody can come up with a reason?

I guess I will just have to buy one then.
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Old 07-04-2014, 06:55 PM   #3
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Because it's a complete waste of the .556 round.

If you want a pistol sized rifle, buy a nice Uzi in 45 or 9mm. Or spend the money and buy a real SBR, with a proper stock.

Never saw the sense in these "pistols", but hey, YMMV.

Kinda pointless to put a rifle length upper on it without having a full stock. But again, MHO, YMMV.
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Old 07-04-2014, 07:15 PM   #4
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I got nothin'.*





*except to add that I recently almost bought one, myself.

.
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Old 07-04-2014, 07:24 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by a65l View Post
Because it's a complete waste of the .556 round.

If you want a pistol sized rifle, buy a nice Uzi in 45 or 9mm. Or spend the money and buy a real SBR, with a proper stock.

Never saw the sense in these "pistols", but hey, YMMV.

Kinda pointless to put a rifle length upper on it without having a full stock. But again, MHO, YMMV.
If you put the rifle upper on the "pistol", then you can put the rifle buttstock on it too. You can convert a handgun to a rifle, but you can't convert a rifle to a handgun (without going the SBR route). You can then take the buttstock off and put the "pistol" upper back on and you have a handgun again.

In short, as long as you can put a 16+" barrel on it, any handgun that comes from a factory as a handgun, can legally be converted to a rifle with buttstock, but you can't convert a rifle that comes from the factory as a rifle, to a "handgun" without going the tax stamp route.

Such "pistols" give you the best of both worlds.

With the "brace", this is essentially a short barreled rifle without the paperwork, the wait, or the tax stamp. I can put any length barrel I want on it.

The problems with an SBR are:

1) You need permission from the ATF to take it across state lines.

2) If you move to another state, then you have to go through all the paperwork again, which can take up to a year. Where do you leave the SBR if you need to move inside a month?

I can sell the "pistol" without having to find an NFA buyer - any law abiding citizen can buy it without a wait for the tax stamp, background check and LEO signature.

The only way I am ever going to bother with a tax stamp for an NFA weapon would be to get a suppressor. Otherwise, forget it, I will make do with non-NFA firearms.
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Old 07-04-2014, 07:32 PM   #6
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You left out a coupla' things.


If you fire that thing in your house, at an intruder...


1. You'll be traumatized.

2. Even if you miss, the burglar will be traumatized...and burned.

and

3. Your dog will never return.



Definitely some things to consider.

.
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Old 07-04-2014, 07:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WARRIORPRINCEJJ View Post
You left out a coupla' things.


If you fire that thing in your house, at an intruder...


1. You'll be traumatized.

2. Even if you miss, the burglar will be traumatized...and burned.

and

3. Your dog will never return.



Definitely some things to consider.

.
1) I am half deaf anyway, might as well be half blind too.

2) Good.

3) Don't have a dog.

4) I wouldn't shoot it in my house. This is for other purposes. I have better self-defense firearms that I would choose before this, especially for inside the house.
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Old 07-04-2014, 07:44 PM   #8
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I have never understood the AR "Pistol" either, but hey, It is almost never about "need" or "whats it good for"... If it floats your boat , buy it, and blast away!

I have lots of shit that doesn't make sense to anyone else
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Old 07-04-2014, 07:55 PM   #9
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I would not buy it if there wasn't such a thing as the "stabilizing brace" plus the ability to convert it to a rifle by installing a different upper and buttstock.

I don't look on the AR platform as a self-defense rifle (in my usage anyway) - I think the AK is a much better self-defense rifle, especially in a bullpup configuration. For the money, I would rather buy a Tavor bullpup than an AR SBR for the purpose of self-defense.

But I *do* want an AR lower to support some upper swapping. With the stabilizing brace I get a 26 inch long "pistol" that can be shot like a rifle, I can get other "shorty" uppers too (I just prefer the SIG 516 because it is a piston gun). But the eventual purpose is for fun - I want something I can put a really nice accurized upper on for long distance shooting, and I want it so I can put something like a .300 BLK upper on for hog hunting.

In that case, the "pistol" configuration could be good for close in dense brush shooting of hogs too.

The nice thing about the gun is the options are pretty wide open within the constraints of what will physically work on the lower.

Maybe a photo will help you visualize what I am talking about:

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Old 07-04-2014, 08:07 PM   #10
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There are other advantages too - such as the legal differences between carrying a rifle and a handgun on your person.

Since it is a pistol, it can be "concealed" on your person if you have a concealed handgun permit.

Also, it can be carried loaded and within reach in a vehicle, or on a motorcycle, ATV or boat - i.e., anyplace it is legal to carry a loaded handgun if you have a concealed carry permit that is valid for the state, you can carry this firearm in "pistol" configuration.

Ditto with open carry - if it is legal to carry a handgun open carry, then it is legal to carry this pistol.

A number of states disallow concealed carry for rifles or shotguns, and also disallow carrying them loaded in a vehicle or on a motorcycle.

Most of the time I would not need to carry this firearm in that fashion, but sometimes stuff happens and it is nice to have the option.
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Old 07-05-2014, 03:27 PM   #11
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None of the size benefits of a pistol and none of the power benefits of a rifle. The buffer/buffer tube forces it to be pretty long, doesn't it? I've never been interested myself, but if you are get one.
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Old 07-05-2014, 03:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C/1/509 View Post
None of the size benefits of a pistol and none of the power benefits of a rifle.
http://www.accuratereloading.com/223sb.html

Quote:
The buffer/buffer tube forces it to be pretty long, doesn't it?
Length is 26" with a 10" barrel - 10" shorter than a AR15 rifle with a 16" barrel.
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Old 07-06-2014, 01:22 PM   #13
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Right, I get you. I'm not interested in a 26" long "pistol" or a .22 centerfire that does 2800 fps (albeit with a 52 grain bullet), but if you are, get it.

It's not a debate, and it certainly doesn't need to make sense to me as long as it does to you. Enjoy.
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Old 07-06-2014, 02:46 PM   #14
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I've no direct experience with these AR "pistols," but I have read plenty that you have to be very careful about your ammo(e) selection.

You have a very short length of travel from the chamber to the gas port, and finding a load that will maintain sufficient cycling pressure before the bullet is well gone can be quite tricky.

W.A.
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Old 07-06-2014, 02:52 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Buccleuch View Post
I've no direct experience with these AR "pistols," but I have read plenty that you have to be very careful about your ammo(e) selection.

You have a very short length of travel from the chamber to the gas port, and finding a load that will maintain sufficient cycling pressure before the bullet is well gone can be quite tricky.

W.A.
This is a piston gun with a 4 position adjustable gas valve.

One position is for "normal" (which I assume is metered for standard ball ammo or its equivalent), one is for when the action gets dirty or otherwise needs some more oomph, one is for a suppressor where you have more back pressure so it bleeds off some of the pressure, one is for shutting off the gas system altogether so the system does not cycle, essentially making it a manual action for maximum quietitude (yes, that's a word - I just now invented it ) when shooting with a suppressor.
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