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Old 12-14-2009, 12:46 PM   #61
halflive
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWzenrider
This will be my last reply on this topic, as I do not wish to beat this topic TO far into the ground... However...
whole story which i'm gonna ignore

Over and out....
i don't think we differ that much in opinion, the design could have bin done much better.
i just think it is functional, where i think you're over reacting. i trust my gut feeling wile you are pointing out the minor points in the design.
but as thought but not said, following the rules of an engineer, you are right.
nevertheless, some discussion is always good fun, thanks over and out..
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Old 12-14-2009, 01:28 PM   #62
claude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halflive
i don't think we differ that much in opinion, the design could have bin done much better.
i just think it is functional, where i think you're over reacting. i trust my gut feeling wile you are pointing out the minor points in the design.
but as thought but not said, following the rules of an engineer, you are right.
nevertheless, some discussion is always good fun, thanks over and out..
The adaptor system we have done for quite a few years now is similar to what Jay has come up with. We do not use allen head bolts but rather a hex head ( 10.9 rating) with a flat washer under it sittting in a counterbored hole. There are no tapered washers as mentioned by BMWZenrider. We do recomend using blue locktite on the adaptor mounting bolts even though once the wheel is mounted they really have little chance of backing out as the top surface of the bolt head is flush with the backside of the wheel itself.
Our adaptors used to be made of aluminum but we found that with the ABS systems there was a clearance issue in some cases. To address this concern we chose to taper the backside of the adaptor. When we went to this we opted to go to a steel adaptor rather than the aluminum on all wheel conversions of this type. Yes, it is a little heavier but is really a non issue.
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Old 12-14-2009, 06:39 PM   #63
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15" Vredestein Mud & Snow. I wish I could find a good source for these


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Old 12-14-2009, 10:04 PM   #64
BMWzenrider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDR
Karl,
I got the Blizzak mounted on the GS and I have to admit I am surprized at how well it does in the snow. They sent a LM 18 instead of the W 60 but it works plenty good enough. I will go with a 165/80/18 come Spring but this will work for the little bit of riding I'll do on the GS in the Winter, that's what the Ural is for.
Glad that you are liking the Blizzak. I have found the tire to work pretty well myself. The LM18 is supposed to be more of a high-performance snow/ice tire if memory serves, so you may not be getting as much traction out of it as you would have out of the WS60, but it will probably wear longer.

Yup, just checked over at TireRack.com and found this:
--"What Makes the Blizzak LM-18, LM-22 and LM-25 Tires Different?
These studless winter tires are performance winter tires developed for use in Europe and around the world. In order to accommodate high-speed European driving, they trade some snow and ice traction for handling and high-speed capability by featuring a winter driving tread compound able to support its H-speed rating."--


The spongy top layer of the full-blown Blizzak tires grips well, but wears away quickly if you are on dry pavement. The more performance oriented versions only have the more basic inner winter compound that you reach after wearing off the outer 55-60% of the full-blown version. It would probably be an excellent choice for a grippy summer tire.

BTW - I am not sure how you are going to fit an 18" wheel into the space under that rear fender come spring...

----------

I went for a little ride on the new set of tires last week after our 18" snowfall. Had to check out the combination of the narrower 145 Blizzak with the Heidenau K66 M&S front tire along with the narrower trailer tire on the sidecar.
Unfortunately, even though it DID get plenty cold the next day (check out the thermometer on the dash!), the lakes are still not safe to ride on, and our street crews were just too d*)&'d efficient... Even in the unfinished subdivision nearby they had plowed out all the streets by the next day!



I did find one parking lot where they had only cleared half of it, and was able to have a little fun before being shoo'ed away...


Based on the 30 miles or so of mixed condition riding that I managed to get in, I think that the bike does bite through the snow better than the combination of tires I had installed last winter and still has decent grip on the icy patches. Time will tell.


I was able to maintain momentum through snow deeper than my footpegs that had an icy crust on top that the front tire had to break through, so that is not too bad.

For the pure traction test, I stopped in the middle of this 6-1/2% grade hill which was covered with packed snow and ice.
I was able to feather the throttle and clutch and pull away uphill from a dead stop without spinning the rear wheel!!!
Did it several times to make sure that it was not a fluke.


Looking downhill.


Looking uphill.

Going down the hill I made a couple of runs at increasing speeds and hitting the binders to check the braking traction. MAN do I love how the ABS works!!!
In combination with the winter tires on the front and rear of the bike I made straight and controlable stops in the middle of this very slick hill every time, even when hammering the brakes at full force when doing 45-50mph downhill.

Of course, I would still like just a bit lower first gear for less feathering of the clutch on take-off.
I wonder if the newer R1200GS Enduro gearbox with low first gear will bolt up to the earlier motors???
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:54 AM   #65
DirtyDR
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BMWEURO,
I would love to find a Vredestein IceTrac in a 165/80/15 but I can't find any in the States. The Tire Rack lists them on their website, http://www.tirefactory.net/icetrac.htm but they said they are out of stock and don't know when yhey will have them again. It's kind of hard to get 1 tire special ordered.
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Old 12-15-2009, 07:04 AM   #66
DirtyDR
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Karl,
I meant 15", typo has been fixed. I won't take the GS out that much in the Winter since I use the Ural for my Winter commuter and when I do get the GS out the roads will be more clear. I really don't like taking the BMW out when they have fresh Magnesium Chloride on the roads since that crap is really hard on electrics and aluminum, just eats them.
The LM 18 has just a little narrower diameter than the W 60 so it does gear it down a little but not much. The LM 18 is 2" shorter than the 671 Kenda I was running on the pusher. I have the 2003 R1150 GS Sport so I do have the lower Adventure 6th gear but it still uses the standard GS 1st gear, wish I had the Adventure 1st gear also. I bought the rim from Stroker mainly for the Summer riding since I tend to do at least 10,000 miles a year on the GS it was killing me in pushers so hopefully I can save a little cash and not have to change pushers 2 or 3 times a trip now.
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Old 12-15-2009, 07:37 AM   #67
claude
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Winter tread needed for 165 tire???

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Old 12-15-2009, 08:26 AM   #68
BMWzenrider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDR
Karl,
I meant 15", typo has been fixed. I won't take the GS out that much in the Winter since I use the Ural for my Winter commuter and when I do get the GS out the roads will be more clear. I really don't like taking the BMW out when they have fresh Magnesium Chloride on the roads since that crap is really hard on electrics and aluminum, just eats them.
The LM 18 has just a little narrower diameter than the W 60 so it does gear it down a little but not much. The LM 18 is 2" shorter than the 671 Kenda I was running on the pusher. I have the 2003 R1150 GS Sport so I do have the lower Adventure 6th gear but it still uses the standard GS 1st gear, wish I had the Adventure 1st gear also. I bought the rim from Stroker mainly for the Summer riding since I tend to do at least 10,000 miles a year on the GS it was killing me in pushers so hopefully I can save a little cash and not have to change pushers 2 or 3 times a trip now.
I knew that it was a typo, just joshing with you...

Based on the type of winter riding that you are mentioning, next time around I would suggest the Blizzak WS-60 in the 175/65R15 size. It is 24.0" diameter verus 22.4/22.6 for the WS-60/LM-18 in 145/65R15.
That will give you gearing that is still lower for better low gear feathering/takeoff in the winter on slick roads, but not give up too much in top gear.
On more cleared off roads and packed snow you will not be hurting yourself having a wider tread, in fact you will be gaining some traction having more gripping edges available. It is just in deep snow that narrower tires are better.

-----

BTW - For gearing measurements, that Kenda K671 that you were running (150/70-17) has a diameter of 25.0" for reference.
The more typical Metzler Tourance that comes standard and which many people run on that bike spec's out at 650mm/25.6" diameter.

The Kumho PowerStar 758 165/80R15 that many people run is 25.4" in diameter.

So it is actually a bit taller than the Kenda that you had been running, but about the same as the Tournace's that are standard for that bike.
(and is no longer available at tirerack.com, hmmmm.....)

The Kenda K671 was giving you a 2.3% gearing reduction.
The Blizzak LM-18 is giving you a 11.7% reduction.
165/80R15 tire, call it a wash...

A 175/65R15 Blizzak would give a gearing reduction of 6.3%. With the slightly shorter 6th gear in your bike, you may find that to be a really sweet combination.
I personally like having some gearing reduction on my rigs to compensate for the increased weight and aerodynamic drag of the chair.

For a longer mileage all-season tire, there is a Continental ContiProContact available in a 175/65R15 size with a treadwear/traction rating (UTQG) of 400AA-A.

It is fairly reasonably priced at about $80 last time I checked.
(I maintain a spread sheet with tire options for my rig.)

With your lighter chair, I might seriously consider the Conti 175/65R15 as a summer tire.
Yes, it is more expensive than the Kumho, but you may find that you like the slightly lower gearing, without it being TOO low.

Just throwing some options out there for you to think about...
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:25 AM   #69
DirtyDR
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Karl,
I have been looking at a lot of options for Summer travelling and I appreciate the input. The main reason I went with the 671 Kenda was because I could get 3,500 miles out of a tire where the Tourance went away at 1,800. On the trip to the U.S.C.A. national in Tahoe this year I ended up burning through two of the Kendas and the trip to run the Trans Labrador next Summer would probably take at least 2 bought on the road so I am looking for a good road tire for the Labrador trip.
I am curious about the Federal SS657 in the 165/80/15:
http://www.federaltire.com/en/images...specSS657.html
I have looked at the Kuhmo Powerstar and even the Nankang CX-668. The main reason I even care about a Winter tire is just to get back up my driveway so I think the LM 18 will work good for what I need.
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Old 12-15-2009, 07:15 PM   #70
BMWzenrider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDR
Karl,
I have been looking at a lot of options for Summer travelling and I appreciate the input.
I am looking for a good road tire for the Labrador trip.
If your primary concern is best treadwear, then you need to be looking for the highest number in the UTQG ratings for the tires that you are comparing.

The idea is that the numeric value is supposed to be a percentage of tread life versus a standardized test tire as specified by the DOT.
So, a UTQG treadwear of 400 would be 4x the life of the standard tire, 520 would be 5.2x, etc...

It is unfortunate, but for the most part the Treadwear rating numbers between different brands of tires are not real consistient since the testing is left to the manufacturers rather than the DOT/feds.
But they can be somewhat helpful to compare tires, and within a brand it can certainly help you determine treadlife/wear.

The letters in the rating are more imperical, so therefore more accurate when comparing across brands. They rate wet skid traction (first letter), and temperature rating as a function of continuous speed capability.

-----

The Kumho PowerStar 758 has a UTQG rating of 400AB.
So compared to other Kumho tires it has a treadwear rate of 400, a wet skidding traction rating of A, and a temperature/speed rating of B (100-115mph).

For reference, I achieved about 14,500 miles on the Kumho PowerStar 758 that I tried on my R1200RT.
45% of those miles were done with the bike being a two-wheeler, the other 55% being part of the current rig.
It was pretty bald when I pulled it...

Winter tires do not have to carry the UTQG rating, so there is no way to compare them as far as treadwear.
The 175/65R15 Blizzak WS-60 I used last winter lasted through the winter and into the spring and early summer for a total of just over 6,000miles, all in sidecar duty, some of that doing some serious powersliding and spinning on the curves of Deal's Gap for a few days in the spring which probably took a good 500-1000 miles off of it in three days...
The LM-18 should do a bit better since it does not have the softer top layer compound.
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:12 AM   #71
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Perfect for the outfit... 15" x 4"...three piece, very light, but strong.












Reverse side

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Old 12-16-2009, 06:33 AM   #72
DirtyDR
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Nice wheel Shmerel.




Karl,
I know all about those tread wear ratings but some times the harder compounds aren't neccesarily good. The 671 Kenda wears good on the rig but when I pulled the hack off and rode it that Kenda would tend to lose grip and spin a little if I hammered it going up an on ramp and such. I look at the tread life warranty some also, you can find those up to 85,000 miles on some of the 165s, of course you'd never get that as a pusher but it does have some relevance in the decision making process. I still like to do a fair amount of dirt in strange places so I really worry about puncture resistance also. A deep tread groove and heavier sidewalls can come in handy at times.
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:39 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shmerel
Perfect for the outfit... 15" x 4"...three piece, very light, but strong.
So, How do you seal a rim like that?

Or do you have to use a tube?
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:59 AM   #74
claude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWzenrider
So, How do you seal a rim like that?

Or do you have to use a tube?
Silicone
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Old 12-19-2009, 07:42 AM   #75
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After riding a couple of weeks on the 145/65/15 Blizzak LM 18 I have to say that tire is amazing on the snow and ice. I definately wouldn't run that low a profile in the Summer though, at 4,000 on the tach I'm only doing 60mph with the lower top end that the GS Sport has so it will really need a higher profile tire come Spring thaw.
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