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Old 07-26-2009, 03:51 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green hell
the track had been resurfaced in the fall of 2004, with a fresh diamond-grind. bridgestone-firestone had some test data on the new surface, plus the information from the month of may. michelin had nothing.

yeah, michelin screwed up, but fia took a bad situation and made it substantially worse.
You'd have preferred some kind of exhibition race? It was on Michelin, I can't see blaming anyone else.
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Old 07-26-2009, 04:16 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by wxwax
You'd have preferred some kind of exhibition race? It was on Michelin, I can't see blaming anyone else.


watching ferrari, jordan and minardi circulate for 90 minutes was enough of an exhibition race.

my dad called us at the track, right before the start of the race. he'd been watching speedtv and just learned of what was about to happen. we had no idea. since we were there, we decided to stay, but if i'd known in advance i would have slept in that morning.

i would have preferred a chicane in turn 13, with no points available for the michelin teams.

last year's goodyear fiasco was similar, although the circumstances were a bit different; new car, same tire, and a lack of testing under representative circumstances (high temperatures).
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Old 07-26-2009, 04:50 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by green hell


watching ferrari, jordan and minardi circulate for 90 minutes was enough of an exhibition race.

my dad called us at the track, right before the start of the race. he'd been watching speedtv and just learned of what was about to happen. we had no idea. since we were there, we decided to stay, but if i'd known in advance i would have slept in that morning.

i would have preferred a chicane in turn 13, with no points available for the michelin teams.

last year's goodyear fiasco was similar, although the circumstances were a bit different; new car, same tire, and a lack of testing under representative circumstances (high temperatures).
At the time of the Michelin mess, I remember wondering, if they knew he track had been resurfaced and they knew it had turns that stressed tires more than at any other track, why they hadn't scheduled any kind of test whatsoever. Not necessarily even with an F1 car, maybe make a set of tires for an Indy car and run a test.
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:00 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by wxwax
At the time of the Michelin mess, I remember wondering, if they knew he track had been resurfaced and they knew it had turns that stressed tires more than at any other track, why they hadn't scheduled any kind of test whatsoever. Not necessarily even with an F1 car, maybe make a set of tires for an Indy car and run a test.
That would have been against the rules as I understand it. Bridgestone/Ferrari would have had them up before Max and I think you know how that would have turned out.
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:03 PM   #185
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Well NASCAR had 2 good races this weekend.

Truck Series

Nationwide Series


Cup Series
I enjoyed the Cup race. I didn't see the other two.

Not wanting to spoil it for anyone who tivo'd, but that speeding penalty was harsh.
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:07 PM   #186
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But to scupper a Grand Prix, let alone in a country that matters so much to the manufacturers, was an unforgivable error. I'm glad they're out of Formula 1.
If North America was really that important, the manufacturers would have pressured Bernie and collectively the whole shower of them wouldn't have let the Canadian and US GPs lapse.
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:38 PM   #187
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If North America was really that important, the manufacturers would have pressured Bernie and collectively the whole shower of them wouldn't have let the Canadian and US GPs lapse.
I really do think you've let yourself get out of touch. If you read any of the recent FOTA statements it's very clear they're extremely upset about leaving North America.

The teams don't have a lot of influence over Bernie and his bosses.

If you've noticed, they've been negotiating a new Concord agreement for the last few weeks. We'll see if they can twist Bernie's arm into getting North America a race or two.
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:44 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by wxwax
I really do think you've let yourself get out of touch. If you read any of the recent FOTA statements it's very clear they're extremely upset about leaving North America.

The teams don't have a lot of influence over Bernie and his bosses.

If you've noticed, they've been negotiating a new Concord agreement for the last few weeks. We'll see if they can twist Bernie's arm into getting North America a race or two.
since we've wrecked this thread in typical daytona fashion...

it will be interesting to see if anyone in north america really wants to pay the exorbitant sanctioning fees.

courses around the world are getting tired of losing money in this endeavor.
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:51 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by Thraan
On point cynicism is just fine by me. My impression, based one what you wrote, was that you didn't understand the racing. Now knowing that you live in NASCAR country I'm not sure that's the case, but the reference to Pearson and Moore and the harking back to the good old days might suggest that you are a luddite. Oh wait, this confirms it.


Luddite


Well, I haven't destroyed any looms recently, although the textile industry here has taken a big hit.


My reference was to the days when the Fords and Chevys were actually Fords and Chevys. I'm in the same age group as Pearson and Moore, so maybe the luddite term fits. I do like hi-tech motorcycles though.

Did you notice today, No one in our top 4 in MotoGP finished in the top Three at Donington. Strange race for sure.
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:56 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by green hell
since we've wrecked this thread in typical daytona fashion...

it will be interesting to see if anyone in north america really wants to pay the exorbitant sanctioning fees.

courses around the world are getting tired of losing money in this endeavor.
Yes, shiny goverment-sponsored tracks in Shanghia, Dubai, Malaysia et al have ruined it.

But have you noticed the placating noises Bernie's been making about the British GP? Sure he's embarrassed that Donington is such a mess.

But it occurs to me that there's a chance he's responding to FOTA pressure in the Concord talks, which have been taking place at the same time that Bernie's been making nice with the English.

Pure speculation on my part, of course. But FOTA have publicly said one of their goals is to be more fan friendly and to not race in front of empty grandstands. (Hello, Turkey! Hello Shanghai!) And they've essentially said they want to return to North America.

All of which is a long-winded way of saying that I wonder if the new Concord agreement will include concessions by Bernie to preserve traditional markets, markets which are not government supported. Counterbalancing that is the massive loan CVC took out to buy F1 and their need for large amounts of money to service their debt.

So I'm really curious to see what's in the new Concord agreement, which should be coming out any day now.
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Old 07-26-2009, 08:07 PM   #191
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Old 07-26-2009, 08:09 PM   #192
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Old 07-26-2009, 08:25 PM   #193
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I guess my point was that neither Bernie nor the manufacturers cared enough to pony up the needed funds to keep the race the Canada. Not sure of the deal with the US GP to be honest, but again if they really wanted it they would have found a way.

Having attended every Canadian GP since 1995, it pains me that we don't still have our race. It was always a packed house and the city couldn't be a better venue for entertaining sponsors and guests.
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Old 07-26-2009, 08:34 PM   #194
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I guess my point was that neither Bernie nor the manufacturers cared enough to pony up the needed funds to keep the race the Canada. Not sure of the deal with the US GP to be honest, but again if they really wanted it they would have found a way.

Having attended every Canadian GP since 1995, it pains me that we don't still have our race. It was always a packed house and the city couldn't be a better venue for entertaining sponsors and guests.
bernie doesn't pony up funds. i think the average sanctioning fee is about 15 million pounds (about $25 million us). it would take 250,000 people at $100 each just to break even at that rate.

the usgp paid its own sanctioning fees without any overt subsidies from the city or state.
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Old 07-26-2009, 08:42 PM   #195
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bernie doesn't pony up funds. i think the average sanctioning fee is about 15 million pounds (about $25 million us). it would take 250,000 people at $100 each just to break even at that rate.

the usgp paid its own sanctioning fees without any overt subsidies from the city or state.
I believe Bernie was asking for more than twice that $25m number. The provincial government, the organizer and the city together couldn't come up with the money. The manufacturers didn't offer any funds. Bernie didn't lower his asking price. Either one of them could have made it happen.

Silver grandstand in Montreal will run you about $400 for the weekend.

Hospitality tent at the Toronto Indycar race worked out to about $900 a day per guest. Who knows what F1 in Montreal would charge...
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