BMW G650X Issue Log (xCountry, xChallenge, xMoto)

[Miss Jane]

Lost the gas from my shock.

Xcountry, 2008, 9,100Km

Last 3,500 km have been fairly tough, outback Oz on dirt roads that we think are OK, but bike endured corrigations, bull dust holes and sand blown over the road. Also high temps, up to 44 degree C in the shade.
Speed: 80 to 95 km/hour
Hit a bump hard at one point, I think that's what did it. Also cracked an elastomer at the bottom of the shock unit.

Does the shock have to be replaced? Can you put the gas back in them?

[petemoss]

Originally Posted by Miss Jane

Lost the gas from my shock.

Xcountry, 2008, 9,100Km

Last 3,500 km have been fairly tough, outback Oz on dirt roads that we think are OK, but bike endured corrigations, bull dust holes and sand blown over the road. Also high temps, up to 44 degree C in the shade.
Speed: 80 to 95 km/hour
Hit a bump hard at one point, I think that's what did it. Also cracked an elastomer at the bottom of the shock unit.

Does the shock have to be replaced? Can you put the gas back in them?

Are repairs/replacement shock covered by warranty?

[Miss Jane]

Originally Posted by petemoss

Are repairs/replacement shock covered by warranty?

Yes, repairs etc covered by warranty.

BMW has looked at the bike now and says it's all fine and that the sag is due to the suspension wearing in. Seems a lot of sag to me, but I don't know this stuff. I used to get the balls of my feet comfortably on the ground when sitting on the bike, now I can easily place my feet flat on the ground which I think is about a 5.5 cm increase in sag.

The fellow who transported my bike said he used to race trail bikes and was always replacing shocks, he seemed to think it had lost all it's gas and questioned me about oil loss too.

I'm confused now. I was finding that when I set up the suspension according to the bikes manual for an 85 kg person, which would be me and luggage, it still felt too spongy when loaded.

Any suggestions appreciated, thanks

[petemoss]

Originally Posted by Miss Jane

Yes, repairs etc covered by warranty.

BMW has looked at the bike now and says it's all fine and that the sag is due to the suspension wearing in. Seems a lot of sag to me, but I don't know this stuff. I used to get the balls of my feet comfortably on the ground when sitting on the bike, now I can easily place my feet flat on the ground which I think is about a 5.5 cm increase in sag.

The fellow who transported my bike said he used to race trail bikes and was always replacing shocks, he seemed to think it had lost all it's gas and questioned me about oil loss too.

I'm confused now. I was finding that when I set up the suspension according to the bikes manual for an 85 kg person, which would be me and luggage, it still felt too spongy when loaded.

Any suggestions appreciated, thanks

I'm not knowledgable enough to suggest specific settings or comment on the workings of a shockie etc. but if it were me I would probably ask myself;

1. Was there an immediate noticeable difference after hitting the big bump?
2. Has the BMW replacement/repair of the elastomer bizzo returned it to what it was like before the big bump?
3. Should I get an independant second opinion from a suspension expert?

I was looking at the Ohlins site a couple of nights ago and found this, it might help - http://www.ohlins.com/Products/Owner...M_07241-02.pdf

There is also a thread over in the Oz section that might shed some light on the subject - http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=318553

[Somber]

Update:

Model: xCountry
Year: 2009
ABS: Nope
Mileage at time of issue: Current Mileage 6800ish
Date of occurrence: N/A
Modifications (if any): Lots of mods for protection, only Unifilter filter substitution as far as powertrain
Description of Failure(s): Intermittent stalling issues, seemingly related to voltage, battery recall seemed to help in short term, but problem returned. One day after having the "stalling" occur during a ride home, I ripped the bike apart while test firing it after each removal/tightening/wire shake, etc. Nothing helped until I plugged in the trickle charger, then it immediately started and idled as normal. Pull off the trickle charger lead, stall - plug back in, no stall.

Took the bike in for the battery recall, was assured this would fix the problem. Week or so after, stalling again. If I regularly trickle charged, it would stave off the problem, but in any situation where I couldn't regularly charge I had the chance of having stall issues. If I shut the bike off and left it for a few hours, it would magically get better (how long seemed to vary) - trickle charge immediately "fixed" the problem.

Shortly before taking the bike back to the dealer again while I was having the stalling issue, I swapped the display over to show me voltage. The bike was dropping down into the low mid 12s at speed and in the mid-low 11s at idle (just before it would stall out). Later that day after the anti-stall fairy visited my bike while I was at work, the voltage was back into the mid-high 12s at idle, and in the 14s at speed.

Resolution (if any): Returned to dealer, of course the bike wasn't misbehaving at the time, and they guys couldn't find anything on the diagnostics at all. They made an educated guess based on my reports of what I'd seen and ordered a Voltage Regulator, and replaced under warranty. Since that time I've been riding for a couple of weeks, purposefully not trickle charging, and 0 stalls - I'm not 100% sure this has completely eliminated the problem, perhaps I've just been really lucky for a longer time than previous experience, but it has been long enough that I wanted to share this info JIC it could help someone else out.

My theory is that something was causing the voltage regulator to step down too low to run the fuel system at idle, and while that condition was in effect there was no way for the bike to keep running at idle. I think a new/freshly charged battery must have been keeping whatever caused the voltage regulator to shift from doing so, but after the base voltage slipped a bit, the gremlin would return until something like a shut/down restart or charge action jar the system back to normal operation.

I'll post again in a month or two if continued success, sooner obviously if there are further issues.

[DRONE]

Somber, WOW! The whole stalling thing being blamed on the Exide batteries never made sense to me. And putting in a fresh Yuasa or Odyssey curing the problem . . . ? Very puzzling.

But this . . . this is great! Your theory makes perfect sense. The bad battery theory never made sense. Makes you wonder about BMW recalling all those batteries. I bet they got it all wrong. The whole time it's been a bad bunch of voltage regulators. And the voltage regulator is a cheap and easy repair. Oh, this is too good!

[lewiss66]

Resolution (if any): Returned to dealer, of course the bike wasn't misbehaving at the time, and they guys couldn't find anything on the diagnostics at all. They made an educated guess based on my reports of what I'd seen and ordered a Voltage Regulator, and replaced under warranty. Since that time I've been riding for a couple of weeks, purposefully not trickle charging, and 0 stalls - I'm not 100% sure this has completely eliminated the problem, perhaps I've just been really lucky for a longer time than previous experience, but it has been long enough that I wanted to share this info JIC it could help someone else out.

Somber,
Do you know how much they charge for a not under warranty regulator?

[urbancowboy]

Originally Posted by DRONE

Somber, WOW! The whole stalling thing being blamed on the Exide batteries never made sense to me. And putting in a fresh Yuasa or Odyssey curing the problem . . . ? Very puzzling.

But this . . . this is great! Your theory makes perfect sense. The bad battery theory never made sense. Makes you wonder about BMW recalling all those batteries. I bet they got it all wrong. The whole time it's been a bad bunch of voltage regulators. And the voltage regulator is a cheap and easy repair. Oh, this is too good!

not sure if stalling was the only electric related problem with these bikes. my xchallenge had STARTING problems when it was hot. ie in the middle of a ride during the summer.
new odyssey battery = problem solved.
i know a couple other people who had the same problem. maybe that's why bmw did a battery swap.

[Somber]

Originally Posted by lewiss66

Somber,
Do you know how much they charge for a not under warranty regulator?

I'm sorry, I do not know. I know that the swap only took about 15 minutes, so the labor should be manageable if you don't want to do the swap yourself.

I didn't see what they charged BMW warranty department, but Max BMW online parts catalog shows:

P/N 61317707943 Voltage Regulator $146.22

Hope that helps.

[Somber]

Originally Posted by DRONE

Somber, WOW! The whole stalling thing being blamed on the Exide batteries never made sense to me. And putting in a fresh Yuasa or Odyssey curing the problem . . . ? Very puzzling.

But this . . . this is great! Your theory makes perfect sense. The bad battery theory never made sense. Makes you wonder about BMW recalling all those batteries. I bet they got it all wrong. The whole time it's been a bad bunch of voltage regulators. And the voltage regulator is a cheap and easy repair. Oh, this is too good!

I really hope I'm right, or at least partly right and this helps people out, but I'm holding my breath... at least it gives people something to try if they are at wits end...

[Somber]

Originally Posted by urbancowboy

not sure if stalling was the only electric related problem with these bikes. my xchallenge had STARTING problems when it was hot. ie in the middle of a ride during the summer.
new odyssey battery = problem solved.
i know a couple other people who had the same problem. maybe that's why bmw did a battery swap.

Yeah, certainly could be a couple different problems underlying the various seemingly related issues. I certainly am not against people taking advantage of the recall, hard to see how a fresh battery could be a bad thing.

[onemoreokie]

Hey Somber thanks for the update. I had my x-country down at BMW-OKC on Saturday for the same issue and got a new battery installed. They talked about you and your bike for a while but didn't mention the voltage regulator replacement. It's good to have another thing to try if the battery replacement doesn't work.

My problems are identical to yours. It's been frustrating to have so little confidence in the bike.

Thanks for your posts!

[DoucheBag]

2007 X Ch. - Throttle locked wide open, would not retract... paper towel lodged in the throttle body... must of left it in there when I cleaned out the air box the other day pulled it out and I'm good to go

-DB

[apullin]

My 2007 always stalls when started from cold. Runs for about 20 seconds, then stalls. Also, sometimes while driving it around, the bike would start stalling and not run unless throttle was held at 20% open.
Battery recall did not fix problem.

Took it to the dealers again, they updated the firmware on the ECU. The bike still stalls when started from cold 50% of the time, although the stalling while warm seems to not occur any more. ECU showed no fault codes.

I have done a data log using my GS911 on the bike when it stalls upon starting from cold. The idle control valve pegs at 200 steps right when the bike stalls.

Since the ECU shows no fault codes, and the failure is intermittent, it'll be difficult to get the dealer to fix it on warranty; if they can't reproduce the problem, then I'd have to pay for diagnosis labour, hundreds of $$.

What are my options? I'm really frustrated by this problem, it's gone on way too long and taken too much of my time.
- I'm considering pulling out the ECU, desoldering the chips and reading out the firmware. Maybe I can disassemble the code and reprogram to fix it myself. I do have an SMT soldering station and 24 channel logic analyzer in lab.
- In light of the aforementioned voltage regulator problems, I might design a DC-DC converter board with a buck-boost converter, so proper running voltage will always be present.
- Pull out the whole BMW EFI system, rebuild with a Haltech or Megasquirt based system.
- If we can cast this as a safety problem, maybe we can organize a class action suit?

[lewiss66]

Originally Posted by apullin

My 2007 always stalls when started from cold. Runs for about 20 seconds, then stalls. Also, sometimes while driving it around, the bike would start stalling and not run unless throttle was held at 20% open.
Battery recall did not fix problem.

Took it to the dealers again, they updated the firmware on the ECU. The bike still stalls when started from cold 50% of the time, although the stalling while warm seems to not occur any more. ECU showed no fault codes.

I have done a data log using my GS911 on the bike when it stalls upon starting from cold. The idle control valve pegs at 200 steps right when the bike stalls.

Since the ECU shows no fault codes, and the failure is intermittent, it'll be difficult to get the dealer to fix it on warranty; if they can't reproduce the problem, then I'd have to pay for diagnosis labour, hundreds of $$.

What are my options? I'm really frustrated by this problem, it's gone on way too long and taken too much of my time.
- I'm considering pulling out the ECU, desoldering the chips and reading out the firmware. Maybe I can disassemble the code and reprogram to fix it myself. I do have an SMT soldering station and 24 channel logic analyzer in lab.
- In light of the aforementioned voltage regulator problems, I might design a DC-DC converter board with a buck-boost converter, so proper running voltage will always be present.
- Pull out the whole BMW EFI system, rebuild with a Haltech or Megasquirt based system.
- If we can cast this as a safety problem, maybe we can organize a class action suit?

Did you check if the ignition switch is not causing the problem?
Some have mentionned the ingnition switch cables that need to be soldered or reconnected causing intermittent connection.
Did you check the voltage when the bike is cold at start ? Did they change the battery for a yuasa one? Might be the regulator working great only when warm.
This storry makes me think the charging system works to produce enough juce to the battery to make the bike run correctly when warm. But if it was the new battery that went bad again then from cold the battery would'nt be able to handle the charge until the alternator system recharge it. So either your battery they replaced is toasted or something is discharging your battery when the bike is switch off.
I had the same problem of stalling at cold due to a bad battery that pumps up to much juice from the regulator so that the ECU couldn't get enough juice to run the engine. I got a Yuasa and then runs perfect.