ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Gear > Equipment
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-11-2010, 06:33 PM   #76
Tropical Bird
From the front line
 
Tropical Bird's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Oddometer: 1,004
Once every 10 mins in a long simplex QSO is enough and also legal.
__________________
Sound, sound the clarion, fill the fife! To all the sensual world proclaim. One crowded hour of glorious life is worth an age without a name.
Tropical Bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 06:39 PM   #77
SnowMule
[angry moth noises]
 
SnowMule's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: I LIVE IN A GIANT BUCKET
Oddometer: 17,881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel Garcia O'Kely
I never assume that no one else is listening just because no one else is talking.
Absolute truth.

I've found there's always someone with a scanner tuned into you.

and they're in the black van with tinted windows parked down the street.
__________________
Spewer of the poignant non sequitur
SnowMule is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 06:48 PM   #78
Tropical Bird
From the front line
 
Tropical Bird's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Oddometer: 1,004
No, they are in the silent black helicopter.....just behind you....

__________________
Sound, sound the clarion, fill the fife! To all the sensual world proclaim. One crowded hour of glorious life is worth an age without a name.
Tropical Bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 10:37 PM   #79
NJ Moto
Running Free
 
NJ Moto's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Bergen County, NJ
Oddometer: 7,398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel Garcia O'Kely
Yea, OK, that is true to the rule.

In practice, I find that it's easier at the beginning of a call to use a callsign as there are lot's of 'John's' and Al's, etc.

Once you do it for a while, it's simply second nature.

I never assume that no one else is listening just because no one else is talking.
If I hear some friends talking I'll just chime in but I make sure to throw out my callsign within the ten minute mark.

If I'm meeting a new ham I'll be more formal and give my callsign initially.

Agreed, never ever assume no one is listening. If you don't want to be overheard speak in person not over a radio.
__________________
Every ride is an adventure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuKeu...feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYqF_BtIwAU
"Can we get a party to finally represent us?" - Cenk Uygur
NJ Moto is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 08:43 AM   #80
The Raven
Banned
 
The Raven's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Off the map,
Oddometer: 4,813
Wow,
I have been studying for my General ticket and although impressed by the system, I'm a bit unnerved by it as well. It's a bit par to the Nazi party, very efficient and well run, but stray out of line and watch out

I say this because of the mention of the Amateur Aux. who are volunteers who monitor the airwaves for improper use and report back to the feds.

Games like foxhunts whose purpose is billed to help find PLBs, but is mostly to find pirate transmissions

The 1st amendment violation by preventing codes of cyphers from being transmitted.

And a recent discussion about a hamfest where a petition was being passed around to get someone kicked off the air.

Very scary stuff, I expect to get a redbook with my license so that I can report all suspicious activity to the FCC Reich

Opinions, or am I just being over observant?
The Raven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 08:48 AM   #81
FakeName
Wile E Coyote SuperGenius
 
FakeName's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: San Diego
Oddometer: 1,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Raven
It's a bit par to the Nazi party,

I agree the amateur radio community can be a bit over-zealous, but I think that comparison is offensive.
__________________
ADVdiscount Motorcycle Product Photography


2011 White 990 Adv S
2014 500EXC Black
FakeName is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 09:09 AM   #82
Lotus54
Ngana
 
Lotus54's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Port Angeles, WA USA
Oddometer: 141
I've been skimming this, so I apologize if someone has mentioned all this.

I don't like the helmet mounted transceivers for a couple of reasons.
One is the RF energy right into your head. I've measured a 5watt portable (0gain ant) and they peg a personal RF protection meter, actually even at a fair distance.
Yeah, you are talking short bursts almost always, but I still don't like it.

someone mentioned care with higher power mobile radios and RF- that is certainly an issue. We always try and mount them on a roof- so the metal will block rf (plus the antennas used in that case don't radiate down very much.
A 50 watt radio even with a no-gain antenna at 2 ft has considerable RF energy. The general guideline is 6 ft away (inline). A gain antenna will be worse.

In general, VHF will probably work better than UHF on the road- it bounces around corners and obstructions better, at least in my experience. The higher the freq the more trees etc affect it.

Also, if you have the radio on your side, it can loose up to 9dB sensitivity, which is a huge amount. Your body will absorb the RF and not as much will reach the radio.
Best bet is with the antenna exposed completely (not always easy to do).

I don't do HAM, but design/maintain/service public safety LMR, so perhaps my perspective is a bit different.

If you want to talk with others, GMRS may be the best bet, since it is easy/cheap to get a license and coverage will be better. Not to mention I'll bet less traffic. And most I think have FMS so if others only had that you could talk on that.

Oh yeah, the so called 'privacy channel' is not private at all, but just a way to block you hearing others on a different code (are they using CTCSS or DCS?). So don't assume nobody is listening.
From what I understand the FCC is cut way back and very little monitoring is done currently for enforcement. I could be wrong on this, since we are not under FCC at all for radio (but NTIA).

Vertex makes some nice small radios and we have several hundred. The scan was horrible but I talked with the engineers from Japan and they changed the firmware to make it more 'normal' public safety type scan.
They also added analog/digital at a button press which saves a lot of channels.

Mark
__________________
OSSA Explorer 2014, Ducati Multistrada 'S' custom-Lotus M100- '68 Benelli dynamo trail- 76 OSSA GPII Phantom (project)
Lotus54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 09:19 AM   #83
The Raven
Banned
 
The Raven's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Off the map,
Oddometer: 4,813
Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeName
I agree the amateur radio community can be a bit over-zealous, but I think that comparison is offensive.
In a few conversations I've had with long time hams, and a good conversation can go pretty bad when I even mention that I had thought about using the service unlicensed.

I can read body language very well, and can see a 100% change in that statement...kind of like..cool another ham....>>>>hmmm a pirate, must keep and eye on him.

Kind of scary.

I think any further mention of anything potentially non-conforming will be avoided, both here and in person.
The Raven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 09:30 AM   #84
FakeName
Wile E Coyote SuperGenius
 
FakeName's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: San Diego
Oddometer: 1,617
Oh, I agree- the ham community is as odd as the adv community. There are good reasons- it would be easy to have the ham bands overrun- look at CB radio int he late 70s.

Its just that Nazi thing- not all hams are like Standartenführer Hans Landa, the "Unlicensed Hunter"

And trust me, there are many VHF users in the motorcycling community, licensed or otherwise, using bike-to-bike simplex comms in remote areas without any protocol whatsoever.

I'm a licensed ham and could care less. If, however, they crawl onto repeaters, I completely support firm encouragement to discontinue their transmissions.
__________________
ADVdiscount Motorcycle Product Photography


2011 White 990 Adv S
2014 500EXC Black
FakeName is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 10:06 AM   #85
The Raven
Banned
 
The Raven's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Off the map,
Oddometer: 4,813
Not saying they are nazis, I could say commie or anything, it's just very similar, you are a friend until you stray, then you are an enemy who must be hunted down and reported to the FCC.

I have asked a few questions here, and gotten very strongly opinionated answers. My first was before I got licensed, and I got slammed.

I'm just very suspicious of govt regulation in general. Having been a cop for a while, I learned that yes there are laws, but those laws were written by politicians/lawyers. and THEY ARE NOT BLACK and WHITE.

This is where the zealousness of ham enforcement goes astray, there is non-protocal on low watt local operation, and there in non-protocal on complex DX or repeater operation.....different set of unwritten rules. One should be an issue the other should be overlooked.
The Raven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 10:19 AM   #86
SnowMule
[angry moth noises]
 
SnowMule's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: I LIVE IN A GIANT BUCKET
Oddometer: 17,881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus54
I don't do HAM, but design/maintain/service public safety LMR
Yay! Another one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus54
Oh yeah, the so called 'privacy channel' is not private at all, but just a way to block you hearing others on a different code (are they using CTCSS or DCS?). So don't assume nobody is listening.
From what I understand the FCC is cut way back and very little monitoring is done currently for enforcement. I could be wrong on this, since we are not under FCC at all for radio (but NTIA).
Yea, a lot of people think that 7-1, 7-2, 7-3, etc are all different channels... they're not. Just keeps you from hearing other people's traffic. The codes are PL. Motorola does some digital encryption, but it's not widely used. And i'd bet it's not too secure either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus54
Vertex makes some nice small radios and we have several hundred. The scan was horrible but I talked with the engineers from Japan and they changed the firmware to make it more 'normal' public safety type scan.
They also added analog/digital at a button press which saves a lot of channels.
Yeap, VS makes some great hardware. The UI leaves a bit to be desired but they're tough to beat.
__________________
Spewer of the poignant non sequitur
SnowMule is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 02:45 PM   #87
Tropical Bird
From the front line
 
Tropical Bird's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Oddometer: 1,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Raven
Not saying they are nazis, I could say commie or anything, it's just very similar, you are a friend until you stray, then you are an enemy who must be hunted down and reported to the FCC.
Your observations are very interesting. Nazis? Maybe. But, for a good reason.

The RF spectrum is a very valuable resource, which is under lots of pressure. Amateurs have a large amount of spectrum, a lot of which is not used all that much.

We get very short tempered with people who want to use our spectrum without jumping through all the hoops we did. As you have found out, amateur licences are not easy to get....and they are a lot easier than they were.... there used to be written essay style questions and CW tests.

I have been a amateur for 30 years, and I'm also a radio professional, so I can see both sides of the argument. A lot of the amateur spectrum is wasted with waffle, but amateurs do a good job when the chips are down.

With the proliferation of cheap VHF and UHF radios with wide frequency coverage and also the winding back of Government enforcement (at least in VK...), amateurs often find unlicensed adventurer types using simplex channels in the 2M and 70cm bands...I stumbled across a group of hang glider pilots using 2M totally illegally during a national flying competition once.

If you want to become an amateur to provide cheap bike-bike comms, there are much easier ways to do that... However, if you stick with it, you will find that the hobby can be very interesting. There are some real weirdos in amateur radio, for sure, but the majority of hams are quite normal....almost....



73
__________________
Sound, sound the clarion, fill the fife! To all the sensual world proclaim. One crowded hour of glorious life is worth an age without a name.
Tropical Bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 04:32 PM   #88
hpsVFR
Hoosier Daddy
 
hpsVFR's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Location: Denver metro area
Oddometer: 1,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Raven
Wow,
I have been studying for my General ticket and although impressed by the system, I'm a bit unnerved by it as well. It's a bit par to the Nazi party, very efficient and well run, but stray out of line and watch out

I say this because of the mention of the Amateur Aux. who are volunteers who monitor the airwaves for improper use and report back to the feds.

Games like foxhunts whose purpose is billed to help find PLBs, but is mostly to find pirate transmissions
I can't say that I've run into any Amateur Auxiliary folks who were noticeably different from other amateurs. That is, I have no idea whether or not any of my amateur friends are in the auxiliary. That said, I can see both sides of that issue: you really, really don't want to let people get the idea that 'anything goes' on amateur bands. If that happens, I think there's a good chance that they'll first fill with a bunch of people who don't act politely, and then they'll get auctioned off to cellular and mobile wireless carriers (they've screaming for 800MHz in the bands below 3GHz, in fact, and it's going to come from those who are judged to be least 'efficient' in using theirs.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Raven
The 1st amendment violation by preventing codes of cyphers from being transmitted.
I would say that this is not a 1st amendment violation, but I don't really want to get this thread kicked into Church and State. Suffice it to say that having a 'secret club' inside the amateur community kinda defeats the goals of the amateur service. Yes, it would be totally awesome to be able to do that, but frankly I don't see that you lose anything practical by this prohibition. Again, I don't want to move the thread to Church and State, so don't take the above as a challenge to your principles, nor as my thinking that the Bill of Rights isn't important. It most certainly is, and should be defended strongly.

I'm done with amendments for the thread.

I think you've just discovered that some members of the amateur community are folks who are sticklers for rules and regulations. Maybe it goes along with being technically-minded; I don't really know. I do know that there's other equally high-profile members of the amateur community who will without compunction turn a 4kW amplifier your way if you intrude on 'their' frequency, and keep on stomping on your signal until you go away.

In sum: people are people, and while amateurs have some special quirks all their own, they also have the same quirks that regular folks have. Don't hang out with folks that annoy you and you'll probably not even notice those other ones.

fwiw, I just got back from providing radio support for an outdoor adventure race. 2 days and 2 nights of trying to get 2m to work through hills and trees, and finally getting a consistent linkup on 6m (thank Dog for the Yaesu 817 and motorcycle batteries!) just in time to get word to HQ of a critical water shortage, and later getting woken up early to tell HQ that we had a missing person. Everything turned out fine, and everyone was quite, quite happy to have us there. I got valuable information about the performance of some home-built 2m antennas, and now I get to figure out how best to get a backpackable 6m antenna.




and we all gave our ID at the end of 99% of our transmissions.
hpsVFR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 04:38 AM   #89
Axiom2000
Adventurer
 
Axiom2000's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Delmarva
Oddometer: 72
I have had a GMRS radio on my motorcycle for a couple of years, yes got the license. A month ago I decided I may like to move up to HAM and began to study for the Tech. class license. I usually do a lot of research beforehand on anything I get involved with. Spending a great deal of time in talking with experienced HAMS and reading all I can find on the subject matter here are some conclusions I have come to about the hobby.

Hams seem to be like any other cross section of the population, most are great folks willing to offer unlimited assistance with no thought of compensation , they are in it for the love of it and want others to share the passion they feel and succeed. The other extreme is some are on a power trip and seem to think their mission in life is to police the airways for any violation and confront the offending operator, with threats of FCC punishment. Thank goodness there are not a lot of these types, but enough to make one question why anyone would want to get involved.

Many experienced HAMS had to spend endless hours studying to pass tests that included proficiency at sending and receiving code and difficult questions on electronic and radio theroy and application. A great many of these experienced operators just hate it that the tests have been dumbed down, it is now multiple choice with the code requirement elimiated and the tests are all published for anyone to read and study. I was actually told by one of these fellows that this new testing requirement will be the end of HAM radio because it allows anyone to pass the test.

I believe the reason for the changes in the testing system is that HAM radio was dying. New operators were not coming in to the hobby at a rate fast enough to replace the ones who left or died. I believe the biggest reason for this is all the alternative communications technologies available to anyone where no study and onerous license test is needed. Of course the Intranet is at the top of that list. Last week I was in a radio shack, of very experienced operator who had many thousands of dollars tied up in radio equipment and antennas. He was showing me various things he could do. At first it was impressive, the fact that he was communicatiing with someone many miles away on his own system via RTTY on his computer/radio. But it soon struck me this was no different than talking in an intranet chat room which could be done for a lot fewer dollars.

I intend to take the test and with the help of others develop my own skills, own and operate a station. I have no clue where it wil lead, but so far it has been fun and interesting.
Axiom2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 04:43 AM   #90
The Raven
Banned
 
The Raven's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Off the map,
Oddometer: 4,813
Perhaps it is where you live, In maine there are guys who will only talk ham, nothing else. It was interesting at first, but how much can someone talk about antennas...

Now, I have been talking to a guy in MA, down on cape cod who has had a hell of a time both by anti-govt types, and other hams. The anti-gov types don't like listeners and get jumpy if they see a car with ham antennas mounted, and the other hams have been coming down on this guy hard, even reporting him for using hell and damn on the radio. WTF

Then again, most of the hams I've listened to, at least in ME are pushing 60yrs old. The cyphers are a mute point, just use teenage chat text abbrev and they would have no idea

ALCON CB, 88 ADBB
The Raven is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014