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Old 11-23-2012, 08:38 PM   #2221
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Originally Posted by Nailhead View Post
Where would you take one for a PPI on the Denver/Boulder area?
A few PPI suggestions in Denver

Storz Garage. Owner Bob can be a bit gruff and rub folks the wrong way, but he's actually a good guy if you ignore his rough edges. Known as an air-cooled P-car shop, but they work on plenty of water cooled Porsches as well and think they would do a great job on a PPI.

[B]DART Auto[/B] Good reputation, haven't used them but talked with them a few times and wouldn't hesitate to have them do a PPI.

Eisenbud's Also an air-cooled rep shop that should have no problem with water coooled.

The German Car Shoppe I don't see much internet chatter about these guys, but they maintained one of the 996's I was looking at. The shop owner was very helpful and absolutely seemed to know water cooled Porsches in and out. I wouldn't hesitate to have them do a PPI for me.

Overall, I think a PPI on a 996 or later is probably easier to do well than a PPI on an air cooled car. The typical 996+ issues are well known, and relatively easy to inspect for. You can't A computer check for forced over-rev is probably the only thing you need specialized equipment for, and every shop I've talked to does that as part of the standard PPI.

Leak down tests seem much less necessary on water cooled's as well... A poor leak-down test on an air-cooled engine might mean you are looking at a big repair bill. Almost every shop I've talked to has said that if a leak-down test 'failed' on a water cooled engine, it is almost certain that it would be popping CEL's and logging data into the computer (which they do check).
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:11 AM   #2222
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Timeless.

You fellas may have seen this. My apologies if it's a double-tap. If you haven't seen it, enjoy.

http://vimeo.com/53580648
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:24 AM   #2223
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Found a local one

1999 Carrera 911 with approximately 90,000 miles. Seller is asking 20K but Edmunds says it should be closer to 12K. I think I can knock him down but before I take a peek what should I be looking for? (if I get serious I'll have a professional give it the one over too).
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Old 11-24-2012, 08:55 PM   #2224
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I think I can knock him down
I hope so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JNRobert View Post
(if I get serious I'll have a professional give it the one over too).
Well done.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:17 AM   #2225
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Originally Posted by pfb View Post
A few PPI suggestions in Denver

Storz Garage. Owner Bob can be a bit gruff and rub folks the wrong way, but he's actually a good guy if you ignore his rough edges. Known as an air-cooled P-car shop, but they work on plenty of water cooled Porsches as well and think they would do a great job on a PPI.

[B]DART Auto[/B] Good reputation, haven't used them but talked with them a few times and wouldn't hesitate to have them do a PPI.

Eisenbud's Also an air-cooled rep shop that should have no problem with water coooled.

The German Car Shoppe I don't see much internet chatter about these guys, but they maintained one of the 996's I was looking at. The shop owner was very helpful and absolutely seemed to know water cooled Porsches in and out. I wouldn't hesitate to have them do a PPI for me.

Overall, I think a PPI on a 996 or later is probably easier to do well than a PPI on an air cooled car. The typical 996+ issues are well known, and relatively easy to inspect for. You can't A computer check for forced over-rev is probably the only thing you need specialized equipment for, and every shop I've talked to does that as part of the standard PPI.

Leak down tests seem much less necessary on water cooled's as well... A poor leak-down test on an air-cooled engine might mean you are looking at a big repair bill. Almost every shop I've talked to has said that if a leak-down test 'failed' on a water cooled engine, it is almost certain that it would be popping CEL's and logging data into the computer (which they do check).
Thanks, man-- very helpful.

There's one at a dealer in the Denver area that has my attention right now: decent mileage in the color I want with sport seats at a pretty good price. No mention of IMS or RMS upgrades, though.

Anyway, thanks very much for the info.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:21 AM   #2226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNRobert View Post
1999 Carrera 911 with approximately 90,000 miles. Seller is asking 20K but Edmunds says it should be closer to 12K. I think I can knock him down but before I take a peek what should I be looking for? (if I get serious I'll have a professional give it the one over too).
Look first for oil leaks under the front of the engine. If any are found, best case it's a bad rear main seal. Worst case, it's an intermediate shaft bearing in distress, and if it lets go, you're out a $5-digit engine.

Both problems aren't too difficult (or pricey) to solve.
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:26 PM   #2227
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Originally Posted by Nailhead View Post
Look first for oil leaks under the front of the engine. If any are found, best case it's a bad rear main seal. Worst case, it's an intermediate shaft bearing in distress, and if it lets go, you're out a $5-digit engine.

Both problems aren't too difficult (or pricey) to solve.
Thanks. Due diligence on my part has turned up some interesting opinions of this era of 911, not least that it's junk

The most damning (and convincing) was this piece

Porsche's Deadly Sin

Some choice quotes

We will start with the big betrayals, of course, and the unassuming fastback you see above represents perhaps the worst of Porsche’s many middle fingers to the customer base. It is a 1999 Porsche 911, known to everyone in the world as the “996″

"An article on the most common failures suffered by the 3.4L watercooled boxer six can be found here, but for those of you who don’t click on links, the problems range from oil leakage at the rear main seal (which is more or less universal) to cylinder head failure. In nearly all cases, the “fix” is the same: to purchase a complete rebuild from Porsche, at your expense. Figure on $15,000 or more for the “subsidized” engine."

"While waiting for his $75,000 Porsche to experience a $15,000 engine failure, the 911 owner could at least fail to enjoy the most dismal, fragile interior ever seen in a production Porsche. Buttons wore out, dashes cracked, radios committed suicide in new and interesting ways, and every single electrical component in the car seemed prone to intermittent, untraceable failure"

"The 1999 Porsche 911 was a failure in every way but one: the massive savings realized with the new model made it possible for the company to plan new models"


Perhaps I'll look for a pre-996.
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Old 11-25-2012, 01:10 PM   #2228
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A 993 would suit your needs much better. Far better looking and an appreciating classic. More money though, which tells its own story.
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Old 11-25-2012, 01:59 PM   #2229
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A 993 would suit your needs much better. Far better looking and an appreciating classic. More money though, which tells its own story.
Yabbut, they have their own things too. Not least price (as you mention) and finding one without high mileage. And engine work isn't cheap on those either. I agree they are the last of the classic bodies (the gently swelling hips around the rear wheels - ooer, missus).

I'm going to take a look at a couple of 996's to get the lay of the land and I'm ordering this:

Everything you need to know about 996's to edumucate myself.

p.s. It would be a different experience but I'm wondering if an early vintage BMW M3 or even M5 might be the ticket - but, that's another thread.
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Old 11-25-2012, 02:10 PM   #2230
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Yabbut, they have their own things too. Not least price (as you mention) and finding one without high mileage. And engine work isn't cheap on those either. I agree they are the last of the classic bodies (the gently swelling hips around the rear wheels - ooer, missus). And a lot of the non-turbo's over here have the whale tale which I hate except on a turbo.

I'm going to take a look at a couple of 996's to get the lay of the land and I'm ordering this:

Everything you need to know about 996's to edumucate myself.

p.s. It would be a different experience but I'm wondering if an early vintage BMW M3 or even M5 might be the ticket - but, that's another thread.
Buy a 540 sport and swap a LS motor into it . It will perform like a four door 911 with the comfort of a couch . Just my opinion of course . BTW , an American e36 M3 is not really an M car . Go to e46.
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Old 11-25-2012, 02:17 PM   #2231
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Buy a 540 sport and swap a LS motor into it . It will perform like a four door 911 with the comfort of a couch . Just my opinion of course . BTW , an American e36 M3 is not really an M car . Go to e46.
I was thinking E28/E30 era

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Old 11-25-2012, 02:25 PM   #2232
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I was thinking E28/E30 era

Ah , I drove an E28 535is with a 4 liter motor , HOLY CRAP ! My plan is to do a swap on a E39, its a good combo.
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Old 11-25-2012, 02:43 PM   #2233
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.

p.s. It would be a different experience but I'm wondering if an early vintage BMW M3 or even M5 might be the ticket - but, that's another thread.
Well, if you are going down that route, a 635csi or better an M6 looks just the ticket to me. If I can't get myself a classic 911 in the next couple of years I'm saving it for an M1, as in the modern 1 series M car. It just reminds me so much of the old 2002tii. But I really want an early 911 before I die. Lets hope I have plenty of time to get there yet.
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Old 11-25-2012, 02:59 PM   #2234
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Well, if you are going down that route, a 635csi or better an M6 looks just the ticket to me. If I can't get myself a classic 911 in the next couple of years I'm saving it for an M1, as in the modern 1 series M car. It just reminds me so much of the old 2002tii. But I really want an early 911 before I die. Lets hope I have plenty of time to get there yet.
Oh, jeez. 635 is very nice but it's getting into big car territory for me.

I've driven a 1 Series (not an M those are way out of my price range) and it was very nice. I imagine the 1M is spectacular but either the 128 or 135 version would be plenty of car (and room to make it look like a 1M without the entry price).

They do get shitty gas mileage though and both the 1 and 3 series, as impecable handlers that they are, always feel nose heavy to me particularly if you get a chance to compare one to an E30 four banger.

IIRC, BMW is going to launch a four cyclinder turbo - in a 1 series chassis that would be the dogs jubblies.
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Old 11-25-2012, 04:25 PM   #2235
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Originally Posted by JNRobert View Post
Thanks. Due diligence on my part has turned up some interesting opinions of this era of 911, not least that it's junk

The most damning (and convincing) was this piece

Porsche's Deadly Sin

Some choice quotes

We will start with the big betrayals, of course, and the unassuming fastback you see above represents perhaps the worst of Porsche’s many middle fingers to the customer base. It is a 1999 Porsche 911, known to everyone in the world as the “996″

"An article on the most common failures suffered by the 3.4L watercooled boxer six can be found here, but for those of you who don’t click on links, the problems range from oil leakage at the rear main seal (which is more or less universal) to cylinder head failure. In nearly all cases, the “fix” is the same: to purchase a complete rebuild from Porsche, at your expense. Figure on $15,000 or more for the “subsidized” engine."

"While waiting for his $75,000 Porsche to experience a $15,000 engine failure, the 911 owner could at least fail to enjoy the most dismal, fragile interior ever seen in a production Porsche. Buttons wore out, dashes cracked, radios committed suicide in new and interesting ways, and every single electrical component in the car seemed prone to intermittent, untraceable failure"

"The 1999 Porsche 911 was a failure in every way but one: the massive savings realized with the new model made it possible for the company to plan new models"


Perhaps I'll look for a pre-996.
Don't throw in the towel yet.

Do some reading (Rennlist.org, Renntech.org, Pelican Parts, etc.) and you will find that the shortcomings of the 996 tend to be overblown-- at least that's my takeaway after reading everything I can get my hands on about them and their potential faults.

Yes, they have a reputation for cratering engines due to the failure of a RIDICULOUSLY BADLY-designed bearing on the intermediate shaft, but if this is remedied with an LN IMS upgrade kit (coupled with an avoidance of lugging the engine), it seems from what I've read to solve the problem. Same seemingly with the rear main: if it is changed out for the latest design, it tends to present no further problems.

Also from what I've read, the M96 engines are the least demanding of periodic maintenance of any Porsche engine up to that time. Read up on the maintenance requirements of pre-M96 engines, and you might be surprised how demanding they can be of valve adjustments and the like. Read up also on their faults: 3.0, 2.7-- these are the ones I remember having major endemic potential faults-- though I don't remember exactly what those were.

I guess what I'm trying to say here (and relate from all that I've read), is that there are potential pitfalls to 996 purchase and ownership, but going into said purchase with eyes wide open and the ABSOLUTELY MANDATORY pre-purchase inspection can level the playing field quite a bit. Full service documentation is a huge bonus towards this also. Service plans are another great idea.

As far as the interior goes, I don't remember reading anything on chronic switchgear/electrical failures, and I disagree with the author of that article you quoted: I think the 996 interior looks quite accommodating for both the driver and the passenger. That of the 993 looks to me like a kit car in comparison.

The 993 brings me to my (long overdue) final point: the 996 is from what I can determine far and away the best value in a 911. Its (overblown) bad rep coupled with what I see as a "black sheep" quality stemming from its place as the first water-cooled 911 has kept 996 values way below 993's. This, combined with fewer service requirements and increased interior comfort/functionality have me sold on them over older 911's, and it's only a matter of time until I get one.
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