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Old 08-05-2013, 07:04 AM   #12616
tserts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al bowlly View Post
tserts,
I've done the fuel pump bypass and had no change in the symptoms. Also have had another Facet and an Airtex prior to the current Facet. I've also bypassed the fuel pump relay, but reconnected it after no improvement. While seeming fuel related, four mechanics have failed to find the issue there. At this point I can't imagine it being anything but electrical. We'll see.
Thanks!
Do you have any friend nearby with an @ to swap parts? If you buy all those things you mention you're in for a very expensive ride, and there is still a chance it won't solve the problem.

Try to replicate the problem with the tank off and, when it starts, begin fiddling with the wires, connections etc of the CDI, R/R, coils, spark cables, pulse generator. There is a chance that the wiring is screwed somewhere...

I would, again, advice to run all tests with the fuel pump bypassed, I went through a lot because I was sure the pump was OK, it may even have an intermittent problem so it may check OK one moment and when the test cables are off it starts again.

By the way, as I was waiting for the new pump, I did the carbs and valves and the bike now runs like a dream, I always saw those @ wheeling and thought that they had done something special to the motor, exaust etc, but no, it's just that they have a finely tuned bike.. The bike now pulls like a beast and purrs like a kitten...
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Old 08-05-2013, 10:20 AM   #12617
Ladder106
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Quote:
If I pull over and let it idle or turn it off and restart it, it runs normally again for awhile.
Can you be more specific about this symptom.

How long must you wait with the bike off before it runs well again.

The reason I ask is that Ive seen 2 Goldwings and one Transalp that had heat related problems with the Ignition trigger electronics. Once heated up, the electrics here would not function......once the bikes cooled down, they worked normally. It was a difficult problem to diagnose.

I've also seen one Transalp that had an intermittant short due to bad wiring where the ignition trigger boxes exited the engine cases. It only affected one cylinder and acted like a bad CDI.

Does your AT have the ignition triggers on the inside or are they located outside in a seperated case on the left?
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Old 08-05-2013, 12:50 PM   #12618
al bowlly
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Location: SW Mississippi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tserts View Post
Do you have any friend nearby with an @ to swap parts? If you buy all those things you mention you're in for a very expensive ride, and there is still a chance it won't solve the problem.

Try to replicate the problem with the tank off and, when it starts, begin fiddling with the wires, connections etc of the CDI, R/R, coils, spark cables, pulse generator. There is a chance that the wiring is screwed somewhere...

I would, again, advice to run all tests with the fuel pump bypassed, I went through a lot because I was sure the pump was OK, it may even have an intermittent problem so it may check OK one moment and when the test cables are off it starts again.

By the way, as I was waiting for the new pump, I did the carbs and valves and the bike now runs like a dream, I always saw those @ wheeling and thought that they had done something special to the motor, exaust etc, but no, it's just that they have a finely tuned bike.. The bike now pulls like a beast and purrs like a kitten...
Thanks again tserts, there aren't any others anywhere around here that I know of. I'll get it back to my mechanic in a couple of weeks. Maybe we can replicate it in the shop. Mine runs great too until whatever happens happens.
Tom
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:07 PM   #12619
al bowlly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladder106 View Post
Can you be more specific about this symptom.

How long must you wait with the bike off before it runs well again.

The reason I ask is that Ive seen 2 Goldwings and one Transalp that had heat related problems with the Ignition trigger electronics. Once heated up, the electrics here would not function......once the bikes cooled down, they worked normally. It was a difficult problem to diagnose.

I've also seen one Transalp that had an intermittant short due to bad wiring where the ignition trigger boxes exited the engine cases. It only affected one cylinder and acted like a bad CDI.

Does your AT have the ignition triggers on the inside or are they located outside in a seperated case on the left?
About eight miles into the ride there is a little hesitation then it bogs down. It doesn't usually die completely, just loses power. I'm not sure if this is dropping a cylinder or not. Yesterday I just pulled over to turn around and let it idle a minute. It ran perfectly for another eight to ten miles and did the same thing again. Third time I pulled over, killed it, then restarted within a minute. It doesn't seem to have to cool down too much.
I'm not sure what you mean by ignition triggers.
Tom
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:55 PM   #12620
dennism
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Hi Al, These problems that come and go are the hardest ones to find. I have a couple of suggestions, but no guarantees of success...

First, pull the connecting plug at the CDI and make sure the connections are clean. I use a contact cleaner called Deoxit D5 which is just for this kind of thing. Might be hard to find, but is well worth the effort to get some. Try Google for a supplier, or I know the manufacturer sells direct.

After cleaning, put on some dielectric silicone grease (parts store) to keep contaminants out..

Then clean in the same way the connector(s) at the voltage regulator, and most importantly the one by the side of the battery where the main fuse is. There is a connection there that seems to "relax" due to higher current than it's designed for ( I think). Mine is in a red four-way plug. If there is a problem there, it will show as a discolored terminal, and maybe some melting of the plastic plug cover due to heat.

While you're there, do the same inspection and cleanup of the connector with the three yellow wires coming from the alternator, connecting over to the regulator. I discarded this connector altogether and soldered the leads directly, to eliminate that problem.

Finally, there are two screws that attach the mounting plate of the coils, one each side on the top frame tubes. These are hard to find. One has a special connector on it (left side for me) which is a ground point for the coils, and other things up front. Clean again.

If you're doing this with the tank off, there's a row of connectors there that might benefit from some cleaning too - while you're there!

Sorry to be so wordy, but these are things you can do to help yourself, so I thought it may be worth while. Good luck!
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:51 PM   #12621
al bowlly
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Thumb

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennism View Post
Hi Al, These problems that come and go are the hardest ones to find. I have a couple of suggestions, but no guarantees of success...

First, pull the connecting plug at the CDI and make sure the connections are clean. I use a contact cleaner called Deoxit D5 which is just for this kind of thing. Might be hard to find, but is well worth the effort to get some. Try Google for a supplier, or I know the manufacturer sells direct.

After cleaning, put on some dielectric silicone grease (parts store) to keep contaminants out..

Then clean in the same way the connector(s) at the voltage regulator, and most importantly the one by the side of the battery where the main fuse is. There is a connection there that seems to "relax" due to higher current than it's designed for ( I think). Mine is in a red four-way plug. If there is a problem there, it will show as a discolored terminal, and maybe some melting of the plastic plug cover due to heat.

While you're there, do the same inspection and cleanup of the connector with the three yellow wires coming from the alternator, connecting over to the regulator. I discarded this connector altogether and soldered the leads directly, to eliminate that problem.

Finally, there are two screws that attach the mounting plate of the coils, one each side on the top frame tubes. These are hard to find. One has a special connector on it (left side for me) which is a ground point for the coils, and other things up front. Clean again.

If you're doing this with the tank off, there's a row of connectors there that might benefit from some cleaning too - while you're there!

Sorry to be so wordy, but these are things you can do to help yourself, so I thought it may be worth while. Good luck!
Thanks dennism. I have Deoxit since I'm into analog stereo equipment. I'll go through all the connections and see if that makes a difference.
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Old 08-05-2013, 04:23 PM   #12622
GSPD750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al bowlly View Post
About eight miles into the ride there is a little hesitation then it bogs down. It doesn't usually die completely, just loses power. I'm not sure if this is dropping a cylinder or not. Yesterday I just pulled over to turn around and let it idle a minute. It ran perfectly for another eight to ten miles and did the same thing again. Third time I pulled over, killed it, then restarted within a minute. It doesn't seem to have to cool down too much.
I'm not sure what you mean by ignition triggers.
Tom

Ladder106 is referring to the pulse generator coil behind the left hand engine side (alternator) cover ref. haynes 5.4 Their is a diagnostic test for this but you need a fancy multimeter. You could check the wiring (2 yellow wires) that come out of that side cover for faults which in turn go to the CDI.

So...if you in fact bypassed the fuel pump and gravity fed those carbs like you said with a full tank and the problem was still there...well then...it can only be somewhere in the CDI, HT coils or pulse generator coil. It can be hard sometimes to decipher between fuel and electrical but it seems to me you and your mechs have eliminated fuel starvation.
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:09 PM   #12623
dennism
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al bowlly View Post
Thanks dennism. I have Deoxit since I'm into analog stereo equipment. I'll go through all the connections and see if that makes a difference.
Ladder and GSPD may have a point in suspecting the pulse generator coil. I think it's probably a hall-effect sensor, which only produces a small voltage pulse, at best. It might be a good idea to search out the connector between it and the CDI - the wiring diagram definitely shows one in between there.

My bike is also a 1998 model, so I'll do some digging too, and let you know.

Analog stereo equipment? I thought I might be one of the few left with such antique hardware! Yep, that's where Deoxit is used a lot. I find it is great stuff for restoring contacts in many things, like handlebar switches, etc.

Wild thought.....have you checked the sidestand switch? Battery?

Good luck. Dennis Martin
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:16 PM   #12624
2bold2getold
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Did you try running it with the gas cap loose, in case it's not venting properly. Sometimes it's something simple.
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Old 08-05-2013, 08:26 PM   #12625
al bowlly
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Originally Posted by 2bold2getold View Post
Did you try running it with the gas cap loose, in case it's not venting properly. Sometimes it's something simple.
I don't know of anything I haven't tried on the fuel delivery side. New battery in it. Beyond the fuel pump relay I haven't explored the electrical side yet. Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. I'm going to be out of pocket for a week and will tackle all the connectors when I get back.
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Old 08-05-2013, 10:40 PM   #12626
diskow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al bowlly View Post


FRUSTRATION! I've been trying to resolve issues with my AT for a couple of years and thought the last round of effort had done the trick. After a few successful rides, today the issue reappeared. The bike will be running normally then will exhibit symptoms of fuel starvation. If I pull over and let it idle or turn it off and restart it, it runs normally again for awhile.
After having it worked on by the LHD twice and a couple of other mechanics I found a mechanic who is going to do what it takes. To eliminate the easy solutions first, he went through the entire fuel system: Cleaned the tank, installed a new petcock, completely cleaned and rebuilt the carbs with new o-ring kits, installed a new Facet and fuel pump relay, adjusted the valves, new plugs, fuel filter, etc.
I guess we are now moving into the electrical realm. I suppose buying a new R/R and CDI would be my next move. I don't remember if I saw it here or elsewhere but there is someone in the U.S. who rebuilds CDI's. The bike (1998) only has 18,000 km's on it. Any ideas or solutions based on similar issues?
Tom
Are you absolutely sure you have changed your Fuel filter?

It happened to me after Sahara trip.

Before i realized what was wrong i cleaned everything and problem existed.

Than i changed fuel filter and it was perfect again.
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:29 AM   #12627
al bowlly
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Location: SW Mississippi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dennism View Post
Ladder and GSPD may have a point in suspecting the pulse generator coil. I think it's probably a hall-effect sensor, which only produces a small voltage pulse, at best. It might be a good idea to search out the connector between it and the CDI - the wiring diagram definitely shows one in between there.

My bike is also a 1998 model, so I'll do some digging too, and let you know.

Analog stereo equipment? I thought I might be one of the few left with such antique hardware! Yep, that's where Deoxit is used a lot. I find it is great stuff for restoring contacts in many things, like handlebar switches, etc.

Wild thought.....have you checked the sidestand switch? Battery?

Good luck. Dennis Martin
I wish my bike ran as good as my stereo sounds!
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Old 08-06-2013, 08:26 AM   #12628
dennism
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Al, I may be your closest compatriot! There aren't many of us in the mid-section, although I believe there's another @ in/around St. Louis.

Anyway, I second the fuel filter question - are you sure? They are easy to change, and easy to get, same as Honda ST1100 and early Goldwing, IIRC, 5/16th hose fittings.

I just looked for a connector in line with the leads from the pulse generator, and I can't find any sign of one. The wires from the generator go to the area of the fuel pump, then over and into a wrapped form that heads towards the CDI unit. According to Haynes book, they are yellow and white/yellow.

Another thought comes up here, http://www.xrv.org.uk/forums/bodgers...plug-caps.html you might check that, because the symptoms are pretty close to yours.

Wish I could help more. Dennis.
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:02 AM   #12629
al bowlly
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Originally Posted by dennism View Post
Al, I may be your closest compatriot! There aren't many of us in the mid-section, although I believe there's another @ in/around St. Louis.

Anyway, I second the fuel filter question - are you sure? They are easy to change, and easy to get, same as Honda ST1100 and early Goldwing, IIRC, 5/16th hose fittings.

I just looked for a connector in line with the leads from the pulse generator, and I can't find any sign of one. The wires from the generator go to the area of the fuel pump, then over and into a wrapped form that heads towards the CDI unit. According to Haynes book, they are yellow and white/yellow.

Another thought comes up here, http://www.xrv.org.uk/forums/bodgers...plug-caps.html you might check that, because the symptoms are pretty close to yours.

Wish I could help more. Dennis.
Dennis,
The only other I've seen was owned by a Honda rep in Atlanta. He came down to a local rally which put two AT's in SW Ms. for probably the first and last time, unless you want to come down and swap out a few parts.
There is an RD04 around New Orleans. The fuel filter is very fresh (less than one tank of gas). I'll start checking things out in a couple of weeks when I get back from vacation.
Thanks,
Tom
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:49 PM   #12630
AdventureGoddess
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Hello Africa Twin owners....

Any rumblings of a reboot of the bike? I'm chasing the rumor mill and thought here would be an excellent start. Wasn't sure if it's true at all, or if Honda is testing the European market before they reach the US. Any help would be appreciated and I will happily report back on any leads.

Thanks guys!
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