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Old 01-22-2011, 11:25 AM   #106
klaviator
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Originally Posted by flatboarder View Post
Not really. Many other 125ccm 4 stroke scooters are going considerable faster due to 14 or 15HP compared to 11,7 at the PCX. Topspeed is not a major argument for a PCX:
However, I can tell, the PCX rides really well, especially due to its smooth and light running engine, feeling stronger than it actually is. Also due to its lightweighted medium size chassis (50kg lighter than comparable 125cc EFI 4 stroke scooters as like Kymco, Yamaha and others). It feels very easy going, accelerates well and smooth and handles perfect. Also fuel consumption will stay at least 0.5l/100km below competition even when riding full throttle. In my opinion the PCX is a good choice even when riding longer distances (as like I do myself). But certainly you need to try it out for yourself.

Unfortunately you do not get the auto idle stop system with it. This feature works perfect and it is real fun. It is implemented unbelievably well and responsive. Actually, it is not its small fuel saving effect, but the special inner city riding quality it gives, that makes me like it a lot.

Phil
50 kG lighter??? for comparison:

Honda PCX 125 : 280lbs
Yamaha Zuma 125: 207 lb
Kymco Super 8 150: 266lb

Sym HD 125: 297 lbs
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:03 PM   #107
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Is the X-Max 68 MPH by GPS though? Because if not then it may be the same if it like all other scooters is optimistic.
As far as I understood, these are real values, otherwise I would not have named them. However, since I do not ride those scoots myself, I can only report what I read from other riders and forums.

Quote:
BTW, I don't even think we have those mini maxi scooters over here. They sure look cool though!
In fact, I cannot tell. All of those rides are a lot heavier than the PCX. Only the Italian Gilera compares a bit, but its engine is quite different (short stroke, lot more fuel consumption).

Quote:
And as for the Gilera runner, why doesn't it go faster if it has 15 HP? It is a smaller scoot, it should run faster than 65 MPH if it has as much HP as a 250.
The 250 Scoots over here have got around 20HP and are considerable stronger than the 125s. I rode the X-Max 250 myself. Although the PCX has got good acceleration at lower speed and does not feel lame, the X-Max 250 in fact is a lot faster.

There are several reasons for certain max speeds. The X-Max 125 for instance does not appear to have a limiter. When going downhill people reported reaching very high speeds.
The PCX on the other hand is strictly limited (however, there is not much of performance overhead, but it would definitely run slightly faster without the mechanical limiter).

The X-Max 125 is quite new at the market and its engine is said to be a good performer. On the other hand, it is heavy and very big and quite expensive. The Gilera is quite old, at least not a new model and probably not as hightech, but with higher rev level. I do not know about a limiter or whatever.

The PCX on the one hand is cheap and simple under its plastic skin (did some work on it today), on the other hand has got up to date specifications and design, and somehow is unique due to its nice medium sized lightweighted chassis, that would somehow compare to the smaller 2 strokes probably, not the heavier 4 strokes, but big enough for longer rides or 2 people on it. I really think it is quite a good ride worth of trying, if rider is not too big. In my opinion the PCX would fail for real big riders.

Phil
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:12 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
50 kG lighter??? for comparison:

Honda PCX 125 : 280lbs
Yamaha Zuma 125: 207 lb
Kymco Super 8 150: 266lb

Sym HD 125: 297 lbs
My values (fuel injected 4 stroke scoots, 11-15hp):
Honda PCX 125i: 126kg
Honda S-Wing 125i: 158kg (including ABS)
Yamaha X-Max 125i: 173kg (including ABS)
Kymco Downtown 125i: 176kg --> 50kg difference
Gilera Runner 125 ST: 145kg

I know, these mostly are EU models, but they are quite popular and up to date.
If you like to see more details, I compiled some small table for those models. Have a look at the torque values. PCX is quite good at quite low rev.

Phil
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:42 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by flatboarder View Post
My values (fuel injected 4 stroke scoots, 11-15hp):
Honda PCX 125i: 126kg
Honda S-Wing 125i: 158kg (including ABS)
Yamaha X-Max 125i: 173kg (including ABS)
Kymco Downtown 125i: 176kg --> 50kg difference
Gilera Runner 125 ST: 145kg

I know, these mostly are EU models, but they are quite popular and up to date.
If you like to see more details, I compiled some small table for those models. Have a look at the torque values. PCX is quite good at quite low rev.

Phil
We don't have any of those models in the US. Scooters in general are much less popular here.
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:56 PM   #110
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We don't have any of those models in the US. Scooters in general are much less popular here.
Yes, I see. I used those models because in my opinion they would match the PCX best, from those that I found here.

There are some lightweighted air cooled 125ccm 4 strokes with EFI as like the Yamaha Vity and some similar cheap and simple rides. I tried out the Vity myself. It is far from the PCX' performance, although even lighter in weight. In my opinion, it is lame. So I compared to those bigger liquid cooled scooters.
And maybe you do not mind about EFI, 4-stroke and so on. For me these things matter. I want 4 stroke EFI with low fuel consumption and therefore did not consider anything else.

BTW we also have the BW 125 over here:
http://www.yamaha-motor.de/Images/20...m37-412975.jpg
It is an air cooled 4 stroke, lower performance than PCX but better than the mentioned Vity.
This model might match some of yours, does it?

Phil
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Old 01-22-2011, 01:22 PM   #111
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Yes, I see. I used those models because in my opinion they would match the PCX best, from those that I found here.

There are some lightweighted air cooled 125ccm 4 strokes with EFI as like the Yamaha Vity and some similar cheap and simple rides. I tried out the Vity myself. It is far from the PCX' performance, although even lighter in weight. In my opinion, it is lame. So I compared to those bigger liquid cooled scooters.
And maybe you do not mind about EFI, 4-stroke and so on. For me these things matter. I want 4 stroke EFI with low fuel consumption and therefore did not consider anything else.

BTW we also have the BW 125 over here:
http://www.yamaha-motor.de/Images/20...m37-412975.jpg
It is an air cooled 4 stroke, lower performance than PCX but better than the mentioned Vity.
This model might match some of yours, does it?

Phil
The BW125 looks like a slightly restyled Zuma125. Here in the US, most people think "bigger is better" Most ( or all) of the smaller scooters available here are lower priced than the PCX.

I recently bought my first scooter, a Kymco Super 8 150. I never even considered the Honda. Actually I didn't even bother to see what Honda had. Now that I have seen the PCX, I prefer my Kymco, and I saved around $1300 over the PCX. I paid under 2200 OTD for the Kymco . I doubt I could get the Honda for under $3500 OTD. The only advantage I see in the PCX is in engine performance. But that's just me. It will be interesting to see how the PCX sells here.
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:26 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by flatboarder View Post
As far as I understood, these are real values, otherwise I would not have named them. However, since I do not ride those scoots myself, I can only report what I read from other riders and forums.



In fact, I cannot tell. All of those rides are a lot heavier than the PCX. Only the Italian Gilera compares a bit, but its engine is quite different (short stroke, lot more fuel consumption).



The 250 Scoots over here have got around 20HP and are considerable stronger than the 125s. I rode the X-Max 250 myself. Although the PCX has got good acceleration at lower speed and does not feel lame, the X-Max 250 in fact is a lot faster.

There are several reasons for certain max speeds. The X-Max 125 for instance does not appear to have a limiter. When going downhill people reported reaching very high speeds.
The PCX on the other hand is strictly limited (however, there is not much of performance overhead, but it would definitely run slightly faster without the mechanical limiter).

The X-Max 125 is quite new at the market and its engine is said to be a good performer. On the other hand, it is heavy and very big and quite expensive. The Gilera is quite old, at least not a new model and probably not as hightech, but with higher rev level. I do not know about a limiter or whatever.

The PCX on the one hand is cheap and simple under its plastic skin (did some work on it today), on the other hand has got up to date specifications and design, and somehow is unique due to its nice medium sized lightweighted chassis, that would somehow compare to the smaller 2 strokes probably, not the heavier 4 strokes, but big enough for longer rides or 2 people on it. I really think it is quite a good ride worth of trying, if rider is not too big. In my opinion the PCX would fail for real big riders.

Phil

Well I guess it isn't real fast for its class [liquid cooled EFI], BUT it is fast for your average 125 here. MOST air cooled 125 scoots will top 55 MPH, but then again I guess if it is only 60 MPH actual its not that great.

But the PCX is limited by mechanical government? BUT it may be gearing, because you know if the RPMs go to high then your out of power eventually.
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Old 01-23-2011, 12:45 AM   #113
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But the PCX is limited by mechanical government? BUT it may be gearing, because you know if the RPMs go to high then your out of power eventually.
Some ambitious guy at Thailand played around with it. By modifying the variator shape (which actually embodies the hard limiter because it is reached before reaching top rev) and adding some simple fuel controller (not increasing engine rev!) the PCX will reach 120km/h. There are acceleration videos at youtube.

I once used a slightly modified variator without any fuel controller and lost acceleration above 80km/h, but the 60mph limit was removed. However, there is no use for such a change as long as engine power is not increased a bit (in my opinion). I believe, the PCX is setup well _as is_, even when not being the fastest of its class by far.

Phil
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Old 01-23-2011, 07:01 AM   #114
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There were a couple of reasons that led me to the Zuma 125 over the PCX. 1st was price. The Zuma has been out for 3 years so there are plenty of deals out there to create a pretty big price difference between the two scoots. The 2nd was the seat on the PCX. It has a definite shape to it for each position instead of the long bench as on the Zuma. I am pretty tall and the Zuma seat let's me slide my butt way back so that I have plenty of room. On the PCX I was stuck too close to the bars and my knees were way up in the air.
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Old 01-23-2011, 07:48 AM   #115
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There were a couple of reasons that led me to the Zuma 125 over the PCX. 1st was price. The Zuma has been out for 3 years so there are plenty of deals out there to create a pretty big price difference between the two scoots. The 2nd was the seat on the PCX. It has a definite shape to it for each position instead of the long bench as on the Zuma. I am pretty tall and the Zuma seat let's me slide my butt way back so that I have plenty of room. On the PCX I was stuck too close to the bars and my knees were way up in the air.
There is more to picking a scooter than just top speed. I would also take the Zuma over the PCX even if they were the same price.
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:34 AM   #116
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There is more to picking a scooter than just top speed. I would also take the Zuma over the PCX even if they were the same price.

True, but that really depends on what your going to use it for.

To me, I don't care for top speed that much, BUT I care a bunch for max comfortable cruise speed where the engine isn't screaming it's guts out.

And the PCX probably only cruises at 45-50 MPH comfortable given a top speed of 60 MPH.
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:54 AM   #117
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Memo to flatboarder:

Do you have your oil consumption issues resolved?

Per previous post?

thank you

You have been a fountain of PCX knowledge
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Old 01-23-2011, 09:28 AM   #118
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True, but that really depends on what your going to use it for.

To me, I don't care for top speed that much, BUT I care a bunch for max comfortable cruise speed where the engine isn't screaming it's guts out.

And the PCX probably only cruises at 45-50 MPH comfortable given a top speed of 60 MPH.
That's the key right there. The best scooter for one person won't necessarily be the best for someone else. In some places a scooter that won't cruise at high speeds won't work well. In others, a 35 MPH 50cc scooter will work fine. It will be interesting to see how well the PCX sells in the US.
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Old 01-23-2011, 09:42 AM   #119
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The best scooter for one person won't necessarily be the best for someone else.
B I N G O

I think you hit it dead on right there. I have 3 bikes in the garage right now that put out between 65 to 108 horsepower at my perusal. My scooter will not fill my need for speed. I got that covered already. I just want something reliable to putz around on. I really dont care if some of you think they are overpriced. It's my money not yours!!

cheers
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Old 01-23-2011, 10:18 AM   #120
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That's the key right there. The best scooter for one person won't necessarily be the best for someone else. In some places a scooter that won't cruise at high speeds won't work well. In others, a 35 MPH 50cc scooter will work fine. It will be interesting to see how well the PCX sells in the US.

Definitely! I remember many years ago when my main bike was a 49 cc motorized bicycle, BAD memories! It WOULD do 36 MPH, but that was IT!

It didn't have ANY transmission, only a clutch! It was SLOW! It was a boat off the line, and never had any power. It would struggle up any hill. It had about the same performance as a Ruckus, only slower off the line.

I will tell you, around here it was miserable. I try and enjoy a nice sunday cruise down some backroads, and every few seconds a huge SUV goes whizzing past me at 60+ MPH, while I was almost redlining at 30 MPG. It got REALLY annoying after about a week. I couldn't comfortably ride ANYWHERE except the bike lane.

The good was it required no license of any kind, no registration, and no insurance/plate. It also got an incredible 150-200 MPG. But thats where the good ends! So I gave up on riding it. I would be okay zipping to the store on it staying in the bike lane, but even then I've had a cop cut right in front of me to turn right into a neighborhood!

BUT this bike may work just fine in some towns. Or ESPECIALLY in a big city such as San francisco, so long as you don't plan on crossing the bridge or anything. It is a decent way to get around.

I do remember right before I gave up on riding it, I modded the hell out of it. I put on a straight pipe, no airfilter [actually NEVER came with one as I discovered right when I was about to mod it!], drill out the jet hole [strangely had a lawnmower carb and no other sizes were available], a larger 1 gallon tank, and a smaller rear sprocket. At first I put way to small of a sprocket, and the motor had no power to pull it. So then I figured out the right size. With all of this work, it would just barley pass 40-43 MPH, and that was redlining in a full tuck, and it would take a LONG time to get there. Then going into strong winds your lucky to see 25 MPH!

So yes, while a slow slow bike may not work for me, it will work for some! I personally feel 110 cc is the minimum comfortable street size.
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