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Old 10-25-2010, 12:33 PM   #121
intothenew OP
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No monetary charge for the file. I'm looking for sweat equity, opinions, and bright ideas. Oh, and a beer.
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Old 10-25-2010, 01:18 PM   #122
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Maybe I best add a little more clarification. I think Tet should remain free on ADV, and only on ADV. I would like to keep this in the hood. I also do not want to give the impression that if you have no input, you have no right to the file. Free for the asking by any ADV member.
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Old 10-25-2010, 01:41 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intothenew
Maybe I best add a little more clarification. I think Tet should remain free on ADV, and only on ADV. I would like to keep this in the hood. I also do not want to give the impression that if you have no input, you have no right to the file. Free for the asking by any ADV member.
Why are you wanting to keep this "selective" at all? I've tried to contribute to this effort in the past (I offered 300ish miles from the gulf toward ATL of really excellent dirt) and I think it is a worthy cause, but I really don't understand your restrictive approach to it. Why not post the file as it is modified somewhere and have the link to the latest update in the first post?

Care to share your reasoning for not just opening this whole project up? If you ask me, this project would be best served if there was a map wiki program that anyone could offer up potential tracks in to and the rest of the community could comment and moderate it.
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Old 10-25-2010, 03:11 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by craftycoder
Why are you wanting to keep this "selective" at all? I've tried to contribute to this effort in the past (I offered 300ish miles from the gulf toward ATL of really excellent dirt) and I think it is a worthy cause, but I really don't understand your restrictive approach to it. Why not post the file as it is modified somewhere and have the link to the latest update in the first post?

Care to share your reasoning for not just opening this whole project up? If you ask me, this project would be best served if there was a map wiki program that anyone could offer up potential tracks in to and the rest of the community could comment and moderate it.
I will address the second paragraph first. Intimacy and loyalty, would be the short answer. I came to this forum, ADVrider as a whole, wide eyed and bushy tailed. Ride reports, a consuming and intimate view into someones experiences certainly widened my eyes more. After a few feeble attempts at writing reports of my own, I soon realized the dedication that it takes to pour these wonderfully intimate stories onto a page. These guys ride. A few hundred posts later, after many PMs, and after attending quite a few rallies and informal get togethers, my loyalty to this group of people has been solidified. I have made quite a few close friends here, loyal friends. I hope to gain many more.

I reciprocate that intimacy and loyalty. The files that I offer here come with an intimate knowledge and a commitment to servicing questions. A community this size, and of this general knowledge, is all that I care to bite off. This is a "community" project, not an "evangelical" movement.

I'm a hillbilly, clannish and loyal to a fault.

To the first paragraph, when I began this I found very few files with track logs(preferably active) or documentation. Again, this is not an evangelical movement. I am not going to clean up, verify, and publish every file on routesRus.com
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Old 10-25-2010, 03:30 PM   #125
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I think my point is that if you open this project up, you will get greater community participation and will have less work to do, rather than more as you intimated. If there are several editors of the project and anyone can be an editor just by requesting, you will eventually have little to do but offer your opinions, like the rest of us, and ride the trail. Inmates like BlueLightning and myself will be more than willing to take up much of the slack and no doubt there are many more where we came from. The arbitrary barrier to entry you've created just seems counter productive to the goal as I understand it. On the topic of the goal, perhaps should be spelled out clearly. I agree with BlueLightning's view of it as described in his recent post. TET is a generally dirt route that travels through a the most scenic parts of the eastern states of these United States traveling in a generally north to south direction. Similar to TAT except it trends in an east to west direction. What do see the goal as?

On a somewhat related topic, I am currently developing software that could help facilitate this vision of the TET project. It will be something of a map wiki except you can set permissions of maps about who can edit or view the map. If you want to see what TET looks like on my site, create a login at www.dualsportmaps.com and I'll give you access to it. I've kept it hidden from public view because you've been wanting to control its destiny which I respect even if I don't understand.
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Old 10-25-2010, 04:06 PM   #126
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To create a venue for disseminating, in a commonly used and verified format, DS avenues.

To maintain a venue for the maintenance of said avenues.

To maintain a venue for feed back of said avenues including but not limited to, public and private messaging, and the ability to express first hand sensations in both prose and multimedia.

To maintain a venue for preparation of both man and machine for said avenues.

To maintain a venue for support while en route for said avenues.

All aforementioned goals should be hosted in a single location.
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Old 10-25-2010, 04:42 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intothenew
To create a venue for disseminating, in a commonly used and verified format, DS avenues.
Where exactly? That is the single most important thing stakeholders and consumers of this project will want to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by intothenew
To maintain a venue for the maintenance of said avenues.
What do you have in mind for this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by intothenew
To maintain a venue for feed back of said avenues including but not limited to, public and private messaging, and the ability to express first hand sensations in both prose and multimedia.
Conveniently this forum is doing that for us so nothing needs to be done here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by intothenew
To maintain a venue for preparation of both man and machine for said avenues.

To maintain a venue for support while en route for said avenues.
I don't really know what you are getting at here, but it seems complicated and outside the scope of something in the GPS Tracks East forum. If a mod sees this I suspect we'll get moved elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by intothenew
All aforementioned goals should be hosted in a single location.
Consumers of the TET project will appreciate this and I certainly agree.
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Old 10-25-2010, 04:49 PM   #128
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They are NOT consumers, they are neighbors and friends.

Do you ever venture outside of LDT in ADV?
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Old 10-25-2010, 05:10 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intothenew
They are NOT consumers, they are neighbors and friends.
I would argue that they are consumers of TET as well as neighbors and friends. I don't see it as one or the other. I'm a consumer of TET and a contributer to it. I am furthermore both friend and and neighbor to inmates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by intothenew
Do you ever venture outside of LDT in ADV?
If you are asking if I was camping and drinking beer with inmates at the Fuzzy Beaver rally 8 days ago, then yes, I was. Friends, some old and some new took me to places I'd never ridden before and then helped my get my bike running after I drowned the damn thing in a creek crossing. I'd have been riding this weekend but was wrenching on account of the damage I did up in Tellico.

BTW, I have a new section to offer to you. I scouted another route to Florida 3 weekends ago. Its the eastern track of these two. The western track I've sent you once before. As you can see, the map below shows photos from the road to clarify what to expect. It was an awesome route, though at little remote in places. I went 170 miles with seeing gas at one point.


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Old 10-25-2010, 05:26 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by craftycoder
I would argue that they are consumers of TET as well as neighbors and friends. I don't see it as one or the other. I'm a consumer of TET and a contributer to it. I am furthermore both friend and and neighbor to inmates.



If you are asking if I was camping and drinking beer with inmates at the Fuzzy Beaver rally 8 days ago, then yes, I was. Friends, some old and some new took me to places I'd never ridden before and then helped my get my bike running after I drowned the damn thing in a creek crossing. I'd have been riding this weekend but was wrenching on account of the damage I did up in Tellico.

BTW, I have a new section to offer to you. I scouted another route to Florida 3 weekends ago. Its the eastern track of these two. The western track I've sent you once before. As you can see, the map below shows photos from the road to clarify what to expect. It was an awesome route, though at little remote in places. I went 170 miles with seeing gas at one point.
Post them both up in gpx format, either by direct web link, file attachment, or offer a direct means of delivery(e.g. e-mail). I would prefer that you open a thread so that you can maintain the questions, show your commitment to this community. Links to an external site smells fishy to some, including me. I will be glad to add a link in the second post then.
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Old 10-25-2010, 05:40 PM   #131
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TET... what it is intended to be, and what it's part of

The intent of the TET is to provide a route from Canada to the south coast.... the keys if we can, but somewhere on the south coast for sure!

This is in response to the west coast having TWO routes that run border to border (the PCQ and CDR).

Chip felt we ought to have such a route of our own... and a number of people agreed and stepped up to the plate.

The beginning of this thread has had vigorous debate on how we might accomplish this with different people having different visions.

What we have now is the result of numerous people putting in the time and making it happen. Is it perfect? No. It is good? You bet! Can it be improved? Sure!

Having ridden many of the long routes in the last few years I think it would behoove us to have a main route as the designated 'TET', and optional other routes for side trips.

Look at the most famous big route - TAT - does it have a lot of options? Nope... big bike bypasses in a few areas, but the route is intended to be rideable by almost all dual sport bikes.

Would the hard core dirt guys (I used to be one of them) like some harder dirt - yep. But you really can't ride that hard of stuff the distances you will be covering to go border to border. And the big boys can't get into that stuff either. You really want a long ride to be somewhat challenging at times, mostly scenic, and always fun.

The realities are that a mix of stuff is whats really necessary for a long run of this type. As much dirt as possible, but there are times you can't find dirt. And zig zagging all over the place just insures that not many will ever ride the whole thing.... it takes too long and too much energy. On the TAT you get to see the continent unfold beneath your wheels.... on the TET you get to see the length of one side of it.

Updates... having tried this year to get more stuff finished and struggling all the way, you sometimes just have to admit your limitations. You have time to think and plan and hone your strategy all winter. But when riding season is here, it's hard enough to get done what you have to do much less everything you want to do. So all those changes you want to make just don't get done. This is my long way around of saying that annual updates (if warranted) probably would be enough.

If others want to build other routes that cross or tie into the TET, great! But is that the TET? No, it's other routes.

Having built a little bit of this thing we're calling the TET, I'm more than happy to have Chip coordinate it and handle the distribution of it. The reasons why he wants to control the distribution of it have been posted by him at the beginning of the thread, and I agree with him.

I also think it would be chaos if we didn't have somebody to be the central point of keeping track of what's going on on development.... it'll be easier once the major work is done (almost there!), but for now it's a LOT of work. So I give Chip kudos for what's been accomplished so far.

Just my 2 cents worth......
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Old 10-25-2010, 06:02 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intothenew
I'm looking for sweat equity, opinions, and bright ideas. Oh, and a beer.
I was offering what you asked for Chip. Oddly, I don't think it was very productive. Somewhere between

Quote:
Originally Posted by intothenew
Do you ever venture outside of LDT in ADV?
AND

Quote:
Originally Posted by intothenew
Links to an external site smells fishy to some, including me
I get the feeling you may have just wanted beer.
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Old 10-25-2010, 06:13 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craftycoder
I was offering what you asked for Chip. Oddly, I don't think it was very productive. Somewhere between





AND



I get the feeling you may have just wanted beer.
I get the feeling that you want to take things to an unsupported, pay-per-view site.
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Old 10-25-2010, 06:39 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by intothenew
I get the feeling that you want to take things to an unsupported, pay-per-view site.
That, my friend, could not be farther from the truth. I would like to see a map wiki, which is not only free but totally democratic. I would just be placated if people had access to what we are doing without having to jump through needless hoops. All that does is discourage people from taking part. For the record, I absolutely believe that this project should be completely free.
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Old 10-25-2010, 07:49 PM   #135
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Hey Chip.

Still here. Rested up all summer after running the P2D...got my dirt "wanna" back and ready for whatever needs to be run.

I never got to the TPAT...but I think the Black Hole closure and TET-NJ N and S are good to hook.

Since there's been some time following my recons I think that there might be a few glitches in there (can confirm that summer did a number on a few trails)...likely to clear up in the cold weather (confirmed that a portion of Assunpink trail right off 539 is waaay shiggy with pucker, e.g. brambles).
Anyway...you guys sort out who can get what and how you're gonna hand it out---I'm just here for the work.

I need a purpose!
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