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Old 10-19-2012, 05:37 PM   #1591
eatpasta
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Originally Posted by limeymike View Post
Stupid money when there are bikes that will be better for 1/2 the price.
agree.

At first I was completely willing to sell at least two of my bikes in order to get somewhere near a solid down payment for one of these until the real world estimates came thorough on the pricing.
unfortunately, making a very high quality bike using USA workers, on USA soil is going to be much more expensive than a massive established company elsewhere.

I would love more than anything to support a new, domestic bike maker but for the price of having an entire garage of pretty incredible bikes (or BUILDING a garage.....) I have to pass. All 6 of my current bikes wouldn't sell for the price of a Motus. Hell my 2012 Passat TDI wasn't as much as a Motus.

and that's sad because I really want one. I want something made in America that's interesting. The Motus is interesting.
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Old 10-20-2012, 08:34 AM   #1592
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Originally Posted by eatpasta View Post
unfortunately, making a very high quality bike using USA workers, on USA soil is going to be much more expensive than a massive established company elsewhere.
That's just not true. Car manufacturers are making quality cars, with USA workers on USA soil and they are making bank. Honda was able to do it too, but they had to shut down because the Goldwing volume wasn't enough to keep the factory alive...

And that is the problem, volume. They are trying to recover their costs and make profit with too few bikes. Their business model should have been developed around a lower sales price, which would had increased the volume...

Instead they developed it around a boutique bike pricing scheme, but, they don't have a bike worthy of that price tag.
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Old 10-20-2012, 09:02 AM   #1593
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Originally Posted by Süsser Tod View Post
That's just not true. Car manufacturers are making quality cars, with USA workers on USA soil and they are making bank. Honda was able to do it too, but they had to shut down because the Goldwing volume wasn't enough to keep the factory alive...

And that is the problem, volume. They are trying to recover their costs and make profit with too few bikes. Their business model should have been developed around a lower sales price, which would had increased the volume...

Instead they developed it around a boutique bike pricing scheme, but, they don't have a bike worthy of that price tag.
Sport tourers don't sell in much volume in the first place, so I don't think that would have worked very well. The bikes that sell in volume are (a) cruisers, (b) dirtbikes, and (c) sportbikes, and all of those market niches are packed full.

And we don't know whether they have a bike worthy of that price tag. It isn't refined and in production yet; they are showing prototypes that are still in development. I'm impressed with the effort and the design so far. I very much look forward to taking a testride once they arrive for real.

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Old 10-20-2012, 10:00 AM   #1594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Süsser Tod View Post
That's just not true. Car manufacturers are making quality cars, with USA workers on USA soil and they are making bank. Honda was able to do it too, but they had to shut down because the Goldwing volume wasn't enough to keep the factory alive...

And that is the problem, volume. They are trying to recover their costs and make profit with too few bikes. Their business model should have been developed around a lower sales price, which would had increased the volume...

Instead they developed it around a boutique bike pricing scheme, but, they don't have a bike worthy of that price tag.
if that's actually the case then they have certainly set themselves up for failure.

I can appreciate quality..... but $30K......

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Old 10-20-2012, 11:11 AM   #1595
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Originally Posted by eatpasta View Post
if that's actually the case then they have certainly set themselves up for failure.

I can appreciate quality..... but $30K......
Remember that the big touring bikes aren't far short of that already. Option up a Gold Wing or a K1600GT or GTL, and you're pretty damn close to that. Buy a HD CVO bike, and you're spending more than that, for a bike that has great build quality but is considerably less capable in most ways than the Motus will be. Quite a few of the top sportbikes are at or above $20K these days. I don't think they are necessarily way out in left field on this.

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Old 10-20-2012, 12:32 PM   #1596
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Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
Remember that the big touring bikes aren't far short of that already. Option up a Gold Wing or a K1600GT or GTL, and you're pretty damn close to that. Buy a HD CVO bike, and you're spending more than that, for a bike that has great build quality but is considerably less capable in most ways than the Motus will be. Quite a few of the top sportbikes are at or above $20K these days. I don't think they are necessarily way out in left field on this.

PhilB
I agree, $30K isn't completely crazy but for that kind of money it needs to have some trick components and a meticulous fit and finish. From the words of folks on here and other forums they appear cobbled together, which is acceptable for test bikes but when you are supposedly going into production, not good. For under $20K or just over you can get the new FJR with ABS, Traction Control, Cruise Control, Heated Grips etc...etc..Same can be said for the Connie, BMW, Triumph etc. I'd be hard pressed to pony up $10K more for a bike with none of that and nothing particularly special about it other then being made in the USA. Then you also have to look at dealer support which is going to be tough. I'm also not sure coming up with a new ground up motor was the proper approach either, using a more established manufacturer such as Rotax keeps the cost down and then massage the motor to your liking in house.

Again I think making a small number of made to order bikes for folks with the coin would be a better method initially. Say in the range of $40K and up depending on the customers specifications. If you turn a profit and start raising brand awareness and capital then they can look at doing a production run. Eric Buell is using this philosophy currently with what he is doing. Making custom ordered race bikes and also components with an eye I am sure on a production bike in the future.

And least but not last the ST segment of motorcycling is still one of the smaller slices here in the US so you are already starting on shaky ground. I applaud them for giving it a go but it is going to be tough sledding......
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Old 10-20-2012, 12:42 PM   #1597
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I was at the AHRMA event at Barber last weekend and took the time to look at/sit on the MOTUS.............the fit and finish on the display bikes was awful with wires hanging everywhere, ill fitting body work, rough castings, etc. $30,000?? WTF, over.
Whisperquiet- The "awful wires" you speak of are the connections for the testing equipment. What you saw were the mockups using the prototypes.

Yes, they are working for "perfect". That is why the delays in the first model roll outs. They don't want to risk anything being less than absolutely right.


Quote:
Originally Posted by whisperquiet View Post
They Motus bikes were crude looking (like the first year Victory bikes)...........especially when compared to the Erik Buell Racing bikes..............they looked great. I am not in the market for either bike.............................................. ...BUT, if I was..............the Buell bikes all the way.
You're comparing the Pre-production mock-ups with the latest in a long run of Buells. Not to mention you're comparing a sport touring bike to a pure race bike. Might I remind everyone how the first Buells looked?? OMG talk about gawd awful with "wires hanging everywhere" and those were the production bikes!

Someone also mentioned that they are acting like they are trying to be a Boutique bike maker. DUH! Are y'all finally getting it? YES this is meant to be an exclusive top of the line everything bike. Nothing on this bike is less than the highest quality they could find. It already has exhaust and tuning by Akropovic himself. It already has a custom seat. Etc, Etc, Etc.

Don't knock it until you sit on one and actually understand the business plan.
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Old 10-20-2012, 03:06 PM   #1598
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I think most of us figured as much.
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Old 10-20-2012, 03:42 PM   #1599
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Laugh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget Girl View Post
Whisperquiet- The "awful wires" you speak of are the connections for the testing equipment. What you saw were the mockups using the prototypes.

Yes, they are working for "perfect". That is why the delays in the first model roll outs. They don't want to risk anything being less than absolutely right.




You're comparing the Pre-production mock-ups with the latest in a long run of Buells. Not to mention you're comparing a sport touring bike to a pure race bike. Might I remind everyone how the first Buells looked?? OMG talk about gawd awful with "wires hanging everywhere" and those were the production bikes!

Someone also mentioned that they are acting like they are trying to be a Boutique bike maker. DUH! Are y'all finally getting it? YES this is meant to be an exclusive top of the line everything bike. Nothing on this bike is less than the highest quality they could find. It already has exhaust and tuning by Akropovic himself. It already has a custom seat. Etc, Etc, Etc.

Don't knock it until you sit on one and actually understand the business plan.
It didn't say they were mockups where displayed..............wishing them great success.
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:11 PM   #1600
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welds

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Originally Posted by Süsser Tod View Post
That's just not true. Car manufacturers are making quality cars, with USA workers on USA soil and they are making bank. Honda was able to do it too, but they had to shut down because the Goldwing volume wasn't enough to keep the factory alive...

And that is the problem, volume. They are trying to recover their costs and make profit with too few bikes. Their business model should have been developed around a lower sales price, which would had increased the volume...

Instead they developed it around a boutique bike pricing scheme, but, they don't have a bike worthy of that price tag.
the goldwing went because the workers could not weld the frames 2002-2004
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Old 10-20-2012, 05:01 PM   #1601
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Originally Posted by whisperquiet View Post
It didn't say they were mockups where displayed..............wishing them great success.
Had you spoken with the folks there they would have told you that they do not have the parts to assemble the production product yet. What you saw were the two, and only, Motus's in existence to date.
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Old 10-20-2012, 06:06 PM   #1602
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Had you spoken with the folks there they would have told you that they do not have the parts to assemble the production product yet. What you saw were the two, and only, Motus's in existence to date.
And the way things are sounding and looking, those will prolly be the only 2 ever produced
Too much money for too little product.....its not what they think they can sell their bikes for, its what the market will support.....and it won't support those bikes at those prices, when you can get far more advanced and better performing machines, with all the latest electronic add-ons, for much less. Riders and potential buyers like us are saying the same thing in forums all over the net.....we'll be the ones deciding
I bet Jay Leno will buy one of those 2 tho.....he'll buy one of anything

Maybe Motus will do their market research and readjust the bike and price before trying to bring it to market?
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Old 10-20-2012, 06:31 PM   #1603
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Maybe Motus will do their market research and readjust the bike and price before trying to bring it to market?
You really think they haven't done their research? And that they should listen to your opinion over their business plan?



Obviously, you are not their target market. Nor is any other naysayer here. I really think they have a good shot here. I still want one, but just because I probably won't buy one new doesn't mean I think they'll fail.
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Old 10-20-2012, 07:16 PM   #1604
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Originally Posted by Krasniewski View Post
You really think they haven't done their research? And that they should listen to your opinion over their business plan?



Obviously, you are not their target market. Nor is any other naysayer here. I really think they have a good shot here. I still want one, but just because I probably won't buy one new doesn't mean I think they'll fail.
The big manufacturers bring bikes to market every year that fail.....so you think little ole' Motus is too perfect to fail when the biggest manufacturers on the market do all the time? I think you, like Motus, are a little naive. Everybody oohs and ahhs when a new machine is introduced, but when it comes time to buy the bike, suddenly the markets not there....with lots of wannabe buyers just like you
But I guess Motus has it way more covered than every other bike maker on the planet

Time to bow to the perfection of market strategy that is Motus
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Sierra Thumper screwed with this post 10-21-2012 at 03:23 PM
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Old 10-20-2012, 07:36 PM   #1605
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Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
Sport tourers don't sell in much volume in the first place, so I don't think that would have worked very well. The bikes that sell in volume are (a) cruisers, (b) dirtbikes, and (c) sportbikes, and all of those market niches are packed full.
PhilB
Yup. Too small of a piece of a very small piece of the pie.
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